TL vs. Neon
03-10-2004, 07:45 PM
#81
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Where have I stated that the Accord is "better" than a TL?
I have said that my particular Accord doesn't rattle...I'm sure that some do...
Beyond that, the TL is the better car...It's simply not the better VALUE.
How much RWHP did 1969 L78 Chevelles make again?
Grow up.
03-10-2004, 07:47 PM
#83
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Originally posted by apwalsh
I don't think the NSX and Camaro are direct competitors anyway so who cares? If you buy the NSX, you know full well that you are not getting a Griswold family vacation car.
It just seems like you are mad at Acura, you actually answered questions that I did not ask. Maybe you were directing them at someone else, but you quoted my post when you did it.
If the rest of those paragraphs were directed at me, I don't care about any of that crap about mileage, the S2000 vs Camaro or anything else that wasn't related to my post.
I don't think the NSX and Camaro are direct competitors anyway so who cares? If you buy the NSX, you know full well that you are not getting a Griswold family vacation car.
It just seems like you are mad at Acura, you actually answered questions that I did not ask. Maybe you were directing them at someone else, but you quoted my post when you did it.
If the rest of those paragraphs were directed at me, I don't care about any of that crap about mileage, the S2000 vs Camaro or anything else that wasn't related to my post.
The NSX costs more than 4X the amount (I paid $21,300 for my 1LE in late 1998) and yet it's INFERIOR in some ways (fuel economy, rear wheel HP...)
The NSX should have simply BLOWN AWAY the Camaro for the 4X difference in price...Yet, it didn't.
And just think, the Camaro uses a "low tech" valvetrain (1 cam in block, pushrods, rockers and just 2 valves/cylinder).
In contrast, the NSX's engine uses DOHC, titanium connecting rods and all kinds of other "exotic" crap (that adds lots of cost, but doesn't work out all that well per $$ spent in street applications).
MPG per peak drive wheel HP is an EXCELLENT (and too often overlooked) measure of a vehicle's total efficiency...
In many ways, that 'ol pushrod Camaro outguns the "high tech" NSX...
03-10-2004, 07:55 PM
#85
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The NSX should have simply BLOWN AWAY the Camaro for the 4X difference in price...Yet, it didn't
03-10-2004, 07:55 PM
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Originally posted by `ill*tl
:lol2: lol....
:lol2: lol....
It's always easier to ignore the HARD FACTS.
Honda's "high performance" cars don't deliver vary good fuel economy, despite the high tech wizardry they like to brag about.
The Z06 'Vette further polarizes the issue.
5.7 liter pushrod V8, 405 HP and 19 city/28 highway. :wow:
03-10-2004, 07:58 PM
#88
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Originally posted by Norse396
Child, there are cars costing 10x that don't compare well with a generic Mustang GT, so the hell what, who cares? Do you think the guy who bought his $220,000 car does, hell no, only children like you who feel a need to overcome some strange complex have this need.
Child, there are cars costing 10x that don't compare well with a generic Mustang GT, so the hell what, who cares? Do you think the guy who bought his $220,000 car does, hell no, only children like you who feel a need to overcome some strange complex have this need.
I'm merely pointing out that Honda has yet to offer a TRUE high performance/value car.
Sure the Camaro lacked "refinement" and a WALMART grade interior...That's not TOO hard to overlook once one considers that it offered near supercar levels of performance for a fraction of the cost.
03-10-2004, 08:02 PM
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Originally posted by harddrivin1le
And there are people who think that stock Chevelles made "335 RWHP" back in 1969.
I'm merely pointing out that Honda has yet to offer a TRUE high performance/value car.
And there are people who think that stock Chevelles made "335 RWHP" back in 1969.
I'm merely pointing out that Honda has yet to offer a TRUE high performance/value car.
03-10-2004, 08:05 PM
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Originally posted by mspence3
And if it means offering anything like a Carmaro, they never will. Some manufacturers have their pride you know! You may not understand it but most of the rest of us do.
And if it means offering anything like a Carmaro, they never will. Some manufacturers have their pride you know! You may not understand it but most of the rest of us do.
)Some people want REAL performance and don't have an extra ~ $90,000 kicking around to buy it "you know."
03-10-2004, 08:07 PM
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Originally posted by harddrivin1le
Sure the Camaro lacked "refinement" and a WALMART grade interior...That's not TOO hard to overlook once one considers that it offered near supercar levels of performance for a fraction of the cost.
Sure the Camaro lacked "refinement" and a WALMART grade interior...That's not TOO hard to overlook once one considers that it offered near supercar levels of performance for a fraction of the cost.
03-10-2004, 08:08 PM
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Originally posted by `ill*tl
Um...a Camaro is a sports car while the TL is a entry-luxury sedan. OBVIOUSLY..people buy the TL because of its luxury appeal...not because of its performance..so what makes you think that we chose the TL for its performance? Sure, its got decent performance...but mainly..just like other people have tried telling you. WE COULD CARE LESS ABOUT THE CAMARO....now go away. Thanks.
Um...a Camaro is a sports car while the TL is a entry-luxury sedan. OBVIOUSLY..people buy the TL because of its luxury appeal...not because of its performance..so what makes you think that we chose the TL for its performance? Sure, its got decent performance...but mainly..just like other people have tried telling you. WE COULD CARE LESS ABOUT THE CAMARO....now go away. Thanks.
I'm comparing Honda's "sports cars" to the Camaro...
bang for the buck...
03-10-2004, 08:09 PM
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Originally posted by harddrivin1le
I'm not comparing the TL to the Camaro...
I'm comparing Honda's "sports cars" to the Camaro...
bang for the buck...
I'm not comparing the TL to the Camaro...
I'm comparing Honda's "sports cars" to the Camaro...
bang for the buck...
03-10-2004, 08:15 PM
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Originally posted by harddrivin1le
Yeah...and they EAT their pride when a $21k Chevy gives their $85K "exotic car" the run of its life.:thefinger )
Yeah...and they EAT their pride when a $21k Chevy gives their $85K "exotic car" the run of its life.:thefinger )
I left the finger smiley out there because I thought it cute coming from someone who always says " Why the personal attacks?".
03-10-2004, 08:21 PM
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Originally posted by mspence3
No, they do not! You just don't get it. Again, we do! Your logic, if that's how you would describe your rantings, lacks credibility.
I left the finger smiley out there because I thought it cute coming from someone who always says " Why the personal attacks?".
No, they do not! You just don't get it. Again, we do! Your logic, if that's how you would describe your rantings, lacks credibility.
I left the finger smiley out there because I thought it cute coming from someone who always says " Why the personal attacks?".
And they typically blend back in with traffic with their tails between their legs after the fact.
Many people with more money than brains associate cost and the badge on the hood with performance....Big mistake.
03-10-2004, 08:41 PM
#98
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Originally posted by harddrivin1le
I've blown away many cocky clowns in their "fast, expensive" cars AFTER they instigated things...
And they typically blend back in with traffic with their tails between their legs after the fact.
Many people with more money than brains associate cost and the badge on the hood with performance....Big mistake.
I've blown away many cocky clowns in their "fast, expensive" cars AFTER they instigated things...
And they typically blend back in with traffic with their tails between their legs after the fact.
Many people with more money than brains associate cost and the badge on the hood with performance....Big mistake.
03-10-2004, 08:48 PM
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Originally posted by adam209
i should put the money i could get from my 2 cars and buy a sedan just so that i could blow your camaro out of the water
i should put the money i could get from my 2 cars and buy a sedan just so that i could blow your camaro out of the water
I'm running headers, a cat back, cold air induction and a few other light mods....It goes pretty good...especially out on the open road.
An M5 might be AS fast, it sure as hell won't "blow it out of the water."
Plus, a good deal of the kick comes from knowing that the much less expensive car won.
03-10-2004, 08:50 PM
#100
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And there are people who think that stock Chevelles made "335 RWHP" back in 1969.
I'm merely pointing out that Honda has yet to offer a TRUE high performance/value car.
Sure the Camaro lacked "refinement" and a WALMART grade interior...That's not TOO hard to overlook once one considers that it offered near supercar levels of performance for a fraction of the cost.
03-10-2004, 08:52 PM
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Originally posted by Norse396
People who buy real supercars don't care, you have a need to prove how the camaro meets supercar levels for cheap as if this was the only criteria, it isn't. People who buy supercars don't even consider money, they buy what grabs them because they can afford to....
People who buy real supercars don't care, you have a need to prove how the camaro meets supercar levels for cheap as if this was the only criteria, it isn't. People who buy supercars don't even consider money, they buy what grabs them because they can afford to....
How much RWHP did that crate put out again?:o
03-10-2004, 09:07 PM
#102
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So what do you all think harddrivin does for a living?
I'm guessing he cleans restrooms on the third shift at various Rhode Island truck stops, and keeps old Hot Rod and Low Rider magazines he picks up off the floor in the stalls for reading materials.
Mike
I'm guessing he cleans restrooms on the third shift at various Rhode Island truck stops, and keeps old Hot Rod and Low Rider magazines he picks up off the floor in the stalls for reading materials.
Mike
03-10-2004, 09:10 PM
#103
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Originally posted by svtmike
So what do you all think harddrivin does for a living?
I'm guessing he cleans restrooms on the third shift at various Rhode Island truck stops, and keeps old Hot Rod and Low Rider magazines he picks up off the floor in the stalls for reading materials.
Mike
So what do you all think harddrivin does for a living?
I'm guessing he cleans restrooms on the third shift at various Rhode Island truck stops, and keeps old Hot Rod and Low Rider magazines he picks up off the floor in the stalls for reading materials.
Mike
03-10-2004, 09:34 PM
#104
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Originally posted by harddrivin1le
Which sedan would you buy?
I'm running headers, a cat back, cold air induction and a few other light mods....It goes pretty good...especially out on the open road.
An M5 might be AS fast, it sure as hell won't "blow it out of the water."
Plus, a good deal of the kick comes from knowing that the much less expensive car won.
Which sedan would you buy?
I'm running headers, a cat back, cold air induction and a few other light mods....It goes pretty good...especially out on the open road.
An M5 might be AS fast, it sure as hell won't "blow it out of the water."
Plus, a good deal of the kick comes from knowing that the much less expensive car won.
03-10-2004, 09:35 PM
#105
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And as a former/current "supercar" owner (stock 1969 Chevelle), you must know ALL ABOUT supercars and their owners.
I think people would agree that a 1969 Chevelle SS qualifies as a desireable car many people would love to own and collect. In 35 years that overweight Geo you're driving will still be a overweight ugly pile of dung and nobody will care anymore about it then than they do now.
How much RWHP did that crate put out again?
03-10-2004, 09:43 PM
#106
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svtmike,
I'm done responding to him, he's redundant, ignorant and incapable of comprehension higher than the 1st grade. He’s stuck on the LS1 as if it’s the only engine worthy of being put into a car. He ignores reality, twists what people say into anything that could help back up his lame desperate agenda to prove his camaro’s worthiness.
I'm done responding to him, he's redundant, ignorant and incapable of comprehension higher than the 1st grade. He’s stuck on the LS1 as if it’s the only engine worthy of being put into a car. He ignores reality, twists what people say into anything that could help back up his lame desperate agenda to prove his camaro’s worthiness.
03-10-2004, 10:15 PM
#107
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Originally posted by svtmike
So what do you all think harddrivin does for a living?
I'm guessing he cleans restrooms on the third shift at various Rhode Island truck stops, and keeps old Hot Rod and Low Rider magazines he picks up off the floor in the stalls for reading materials.
So what do you all think harddrivin does for a living?
I'm guessing he cleans restrooms on the third shift at various Rhode Island truck stops, and keeps old Hot Rod and Low Rider magazines he picks up off the floor in the stalls for reading materials.
03-10-2004, 10:27 PM
#108
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502 posts in about a month. That is quite an impressive number.
I wish I could say that this site is better as a result of your contribution. As I have said before, it is sad that so much energy and occasionally useful information is lost in your tactless delivery.
Didn't we already settle this issue in the other pointlessly off-topic and mindlessly petty thread you started about HIDs?
Why don't you just start the Camaro vs. NSX topic you seem to want to argue so badly.
You really should join www.nsxprime.com and post it there. I have my suspicions that you may have done so in the past. We have encountered many 'enlightened' Camaro owners before.
I think you will get a more informed discussion of the issue that may extend beyond a single Road & Track article and a few street encounters (ie the sum total your demonstrated NSX knowledge thus far).
I will not reply again in this thread, so rip me to your heart's content if it makes you feel better. I will do as little as I can to further your goal.
If we anoint you king of the value-conscious automotive enthusiasts will you leave?
At the end of the day, what have you accomplished by all of this pointless bickering? Nothing.
You should spend more time driving your Camaro than arguing with Acura enthusiasts on the internet. What does it say about your beloved Camaro that you prefer the internet to its seduction?
I invite you take a look at the HID thread, in particular your reply to the last post I made in that thread. Here it is reprinted:
You started out so well. It was very 'big' of you to 'agree' with everything I said. Very reasonable.
If you had left it at that, fine. But no, you had to continue to argue the superiority of your car and your continued fixation with MPG/drive wheel HP comparisons as the ultimate measure of the automobile.
Do you think it was classy to put that in your reply?
It was not.
As I said before, I find your actions very small and very sad.
To that you have no reply. Your words have already spoken for you.
I don't think you can google your way around that.
I wish I could say that this site is better as a result of your contribution. As I have said before, it is sad that so much energy and occasionally useful information is lost in your tactless delivery.
Didn't we already settle this issue in the other pointlessly off-topic and mindlessly petty thread you started about HIDs?
Why don't you just start the Camaro vs. NSX topic you seem to want to argue so badly.
You really should join www.nsxprime.com and post it there. I have my suspicions that you may have done so in the past. We have encountered many 'enlightened' Camaro owners before.
I think you will get a more informed discussion of the issue that may extend beyond a single Road & Track article and a few street encounters (ie the sum total your demonstrated NSX knowledge thus far).
I will not reply again in this thread, so rip me to your heart's content if it makes you feel better. I will do as little as I can to further your goal.
If we anoint you king of the value-conscious automotive enthusiasts will you leave?
At the end of the day, what have you accomplished by all of this pointless bickering? Nothing.
You should spend more time driving your Camaro than arguing with Acura enthusiasts on the internet. What does it say about your beloved Camaro that you prefer the internet to its seduction?
I invite you take a look at the HID thread, in particular your reply to the last post I made in that thread. Here it is reprinted:
Originally posted by brahtw8 ]
This will be my last post in this thread.
If that was the main point you were trying to get across, I think you would have had more success if you would approached it differently.
I don't think anybody is claiming a new NSX offers the most performance for the least amount of cash. If performance is all you are looking for, there are better choices. Some people appreciate what the NSX has to offer beyond bare performance, some don't.
The NSX is certainly overdue for a redesign. When it was new, it changed the world. Modern Ferraris, Porsches, and even Corvettes owe the NSX for raising the bar and proving a supercar could be driven every day by anyone. Honda neglected it, particularly in the US market. If we had the NSX-R over here, which is a peer of the 911 GT3 and M3 CSL for similar coin, perhaps the NSX would get more respect than it does at present (which is not to say that it is not appreciated, but it is certainly a frequent target, which probably speaks more of its virtues than its faults.)
I still think the new ones are a decent value as an exotic, but the recent surge in performance capability of formerly pedestrian models has really changed the debate.
I think the the old ones are the best value in a used exotic car, period. You can get something faster, without question, but the overall package has no competitor at that price range.
I implore you to drive one someday.
This will be my last post in this thread.
If that was the main point you were trying to get across, I think you would have had more success if you would approached it differently.
I don't think anybody is claiming a new NSX offers the most performance for the least amount of cash. If performance is all you are looking for, there are better choices. Some people appreciate what the NSX has to offer beyond bare performance, some don't.
The NSX is certainly overdue for a redesign. When it was new, it changed the world. Modern Ferraris, Porsches, and even Corvettes owe the NSX for raising the bar and proving a supercar could be driven every day by anyone. Honda neglected it, particularly in the US market. If we had the NSX-R over here, which is a peer of the 911 GT3 and M3 CSL for similar coin, perhaps the NSX would get more respect than it does at present (which is not to say that it is not appreciated, but it is certainly a frequent target, which probably speaks more of its virtues than its faults.)
I still think the new ones are a decent value as an exotic, but the recent surge in performance capability of formerly pedestrian models has really changed the debate.
I think the the old ones are the best value in a used exotic car, period. You can get something faster, without question, but the overall package has no competitor at that price range.
I implore you to drive one someday.
Originally posted by harddrivin1le
I agree with everything you said.
You haven't mentioned MPGs/Drive Wheel HP, though...
Insteresting how an "old fashioned" 2 valve/cylinder pushrod V8 more or less rules in that category, isn't it?
I agree with everything you said.
You haven't mentioned MPGs/Drive Wheel HP, though...
Insteresting how an "old fashioned" 2 valve/cylinder pushrod V8 more or less rules in that category, isn't it?
If you had left it at that, fine. But no, you had to continue to argue the superiority of your car and your continued fixation with MPG/drive wheel HP comparisons as the ultimate measure of the automobile.
Do you think it was classy to put that in your reply?
It was not.
As I said before, I find your actions very small and very sad.
To that you have no reply. Your words have already spoken for you.
I don't think you can google your way around that.
03-11-2004, 07:22 AM
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Originally posted by Norse396
First, being an ahole seems to be a specialty for you, second I never claimed mine was stock you ignorant twit. And I'll lay odds I know more about what qualifies as supercar than you do as your posts bear out. You just love trolling.
I think people would agree that a 1969 Chevelle SS qualifies as a desireable car many people would love to own and collect. In 35 years that overweight Geo you're driving will still be a overweight ugly pile of dung and nobody will care anymore about it then than they do now.
Screw yourself half wit, my crate will suck the headlights out of that LS1 and spit out LB9's
First, being an ahole seems to be a specialty for you, second I never claimed mine was stock you ignorant twit. And I'll lay odds I know more about what qualifies as supercar than you do as your posts bear out. You just love trolling.
I think people would agree that a 1969 Chevelle SS qualifies as a desireable car many people would love to own and collect. In 35 years that overweight Geo you're driving will still be a overweight ugly pile of dung and nobody will care anymore about it then than they do now.
Screw yourself half wit, my crate will suck the headlights out of that LS1 and spit out LB9's
Why do you keep mentioning "LB9s" in the same breath as LS1s? They are COMPLETELY different engines. The LB9 was down on the LS1 by ~ 140 HP (SAE NET).
You claimed that STOCK L78 Chevelles produced "335 RWHP." They didn't; real good examples MAY have produced ~ 230 RWHP.
03-11-2004, 07:26 AM
#111
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Originally posted by brahtw8
502 posts in about a month. That is quite an impressive number.
I wish I could say that this site is better as a result of your contribution. As I have said before, it is sad that so much energy and occasionally useful information is lost in your tactless delivery.
Didn't we already settle this issue in the other pointlessly off-topic and mindlessly petty thread you started about HIDs?
Why don't you just start the Camaro vs. NSX topic you seem to want to argue so badly.
You really should join www.nsxprime.com and post it there. I have my suspicions that you may have done so in the past. We have encountered many 'enlightened' Camaro owners before.
I think you will get a more informed discussion of the issue that may extend beyond a single Road & Track article and a few street encounters (ie the sum total your demonstrated NSX knowledge thus far).
I will not reply again in this thread, so rip me to your heart's content if it makes you feel better. I will do as little as I can to further your goal.
If we anoint you king of the value-conscious automotive enthusiasts will you leave?
At the end of the day, what have you accomplished by all of this pointless bickering? Nothing.
You should spend more time driving your Camaro than arguing with Acura enthusiasts on the internet. What does it say about your beloved Camaro that you prefer the internet to its seduction?
I invite you take a look at the HID thread, in particular your reply to the last post I made in that thread. Here it is reprinted:
You started out so well. It was very 'big' of you to 'agree' with everything I said. Very reasonable.
If you had left it at that, fine. But no, you had to continue to argue the superiority of your car and your continued fixation with MPG/drive wheel HP comparisons as the ultimate measure of the automobile.
Do you think it was classy to put that in your reply?
It was not.
As I said before, I find your actions very small and very sad.
To that you have no reply. Your words have already spoken for you.
I don't think you can google your way around that.
502 posts in about a month. That is quite an impressive number.
I wish I could say that this site is better as a result of your contribution. As I have said before, it is sad that so much energy and occasionally useful information is lost in your tactless delivery.
Didn't we already settle this issue in the other pointlessly off-topic and mindlessly petty thread you started about HIDs?
Why don't you just start the Camaro vs. NSX topic you seem to want to argue so badly.
You really should join www.nsxprime.com and post it there. I have my suspicions that you may have done so in the past. We have encountered many 'enlightened' Camaro owners before.
I think you will get a more informed discussion of the issue that may extend beyond a single Road & Track article and a few street encounters (ie the sum total your demonstrated NSX knowledge thus far).
I will not reply again in this thread, so rip me to your heart's content if it makes you feel better. I will do as little as I can to further your goal.
If we anoint you king of the value-conscious automotive enthusiasts will you leave?
At the end of the day, what have you accomplished by all of this pointless bickering? Nothing.
You should spend more time driving your Camaro than arguing with Acura enthusiasts on the internet. What does it say about your beloved Camaro that you prefer the internet to its seduction?
I invite you take a look at the HID thread, in particular your reply to the last post I made in that thread. Here it is reprinted:
You started out so well. It was very 'big' of you to 'agree' with everything I said. Very reasonable.
If you had left it at that, fine. But no, you had to continue to argue the superiority of your car and your continued fixation with MPG/drive wheel HP comparisons as the ultimate measure of the automobile.
Do you think it was classy to put that in your reply?
It was not.
As I said before, I find your actions very small and very sad.
To that you have no reply. Your words have already spoken for you.
I don't think you can google your way around that.
Aren't "high tech" engines (lots of cams, valves, variable valve timing, etc) supposed to be more "efficient?"
Where's the efficiency?
03-11-2004, 11:24 AM
#114
Think 1LE has caught his limit for the day. All you guys took the bait; hook, line and sinker.
1LE is a dumbass troll who is full of sh!t. Everyone knows it...yet some of you continue to entertain his stupidity.
1LE is a dumbass troll who is full of sh!t. Everyone knows it...yet some of you continue to entertain his stupidity.
03-11-2004, 12:10 PM
#115
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Originally posted by VQ35DE
I may be slow on the uptake but is harddrivin1le
= Torqueholic????? If so, just post the videos and no commentary please.
I may be slow on the uptake but is harddrivin1le
= Torqueholic????? If so, just post the videos and no commentary please.
Aren't "high tech" engines (lots of cams, valves, variable valve timing, etc) supposed to be more "efficient?"
The same can be said about Nissan's 350Z; that can't match a 6 speed LS1/LS6 car in terms of MPG/peak drive wheel HP, either.
Where's the efficiency in these "efficient, high tech" engines?
03-11-2004, 12:11 PM
#116
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Originally posted by harddrivin1le
You don't find it interesting that "old fashion" pushrod V8s are able to outperform EVERY Honda/Acura production automobile ever sold in this country in terms of MPG/DRIVE WHEEL HP?
Aren't "high tech" engines (lots of cams, valves, variable valve timing, etc) supposed to be more "efficient?"
The same can be said about Nissan's 350Z; that can't match a 6 speed LS1/LS6 car in terms of MPG/peak drive wheel HP, either.
Where's the efficiency in these "efficient, high tech" engines?
You don't find it interesting that "old fashion" pushrod V8s are able to outperform EVERY Honda/Acura production automobile ever sold in this country in terms of MPG/DRIVE WHEEL HP?
Aren't "high tech" engines (lots of cams, valves, variable valve timing, etc) supposed to be more "efficient?"
The same can be said about Nissan's 350Z; that can't match a 6 speed LS1/LS6 car in terms of MPG/peak drive wheel HP, either.
Where's the efficiency in these "efficient, high tech" engines?
03-11-2004, 12:11 PM
#117
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Originally posted by 1SICKLEX
S2000 and Camaro are 2 diff beasts.
S2000 and Camaro are 2 diff beasts.
And the Camaro uses 1 cam in block, pushrods and 2 valves/cylinder...
Yet, the S2000 gets WORSE mileage than the (LS1 6 speed) Camaro...:wow:
03-11-2004, 04:20 PM
#118
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Originally posted by harddrivin1le
Why do you keep mentioning "LB9s" in the same breath as LS1s? They are COMPLETELY different engines. The LB9 was down on the LS1 by ~ 140 HP (SAE NET).
Why do you keep mentioning "LB9s" in the same breath as LS1s? They are COMPLETELY different engines. The LB9 was down on the LS1 by ~ 140 HP (SAE NET).
-finished
03-11-2004, 04:24 PM
#119
No, he's a dumbass troll. If he could lay anyone other than his sister he wouldn't be in a half dozen forums of cars he doesn't own; so frustrated that we're not impressed with his busted ass plastic POS.
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