xjokerz

I don't know if I created a thread on this subject or not, but last September I sold my 2007 TL and I bought a 2011 ES 350. I just sold that too and I want to give an unbiased opinion on both cars.

First of all, they are both great. Can't go wrong with either. With that said, there are stark differences. If anyone thinks an ES is quieter or smoother, you're crazy. I drove each for about 16k miles over the last year (I had each for 6 months) on the same roads and I couldn't tell a difference. They tuned the suspension on the 5th gen ES for more sporty driving and that killed the main goal of the ES: ultimate comfort.

The TL is more fun to drive even though on paper it's down 10 hp. It handles so much better and it's so much more fun to drive in general. Acceleration is a bit better in my view.

Visibility is also much better in the TL. The ES has bunker windows and you can't get a good view out of any window. There are also very thick pillars all around. The rear window? No, not at all. No chance at seeing anything out of it. Both have the same amount of room inside. I also felt that the TL's design was better. I loved the fold out door pockets in the front. The carbon fiber mixed with the wood was also very nice. I also thought the ELS sound was much better than just the Lexus "premium" audio system.

Reasons why the ES is better:

-Timing chain that you never have to change.
-2-3 mpg better on the highway.
-Ventilated seats.
-Will be smoother ONLY if you go down to 16 inch wheels.
-Automatic windows for all.
-Regular fuel recommendation.

Reasons why the TL is better:

-Better handling and much more fun to drive.
-Great sounding engine really puts the ES to shame.
-Much better stereo.
-Styling is way more unique and timeless.
-More storage in the car.
-No push button so when you arrive at your destination you can turn off your car but still listen to that same song.
-Can see for days compared to the ES.

The_head

I'm considering a 13-17 ES350 as my next car. I'd like a 2015-2017 TLX, but I'm scared of the 9 speed auto.

xjokerz

The 9 speed auto was pretty bad from what I understand. You look into an RLX? That's like a TLX times 10.

Midnight Mystery

But the lack of authentic wood kills the TL for me. I mean, even my Type S doesn't have that rich, wealthy looking wood to grab on to and I love holding onto wood And I don't mean the steering wheel:/:/:-)

xjokerz

Who even knows if the wood in the Lexus is real? I mean maybe in the LS but probably not in lesser models like an ES. That's not a real Lexus either by the way. Just a Camry in a tux. Yeah you could say the same about the Accord and TL but everyone points to Lexus as these superpower cars that can do no wrong.

Midnight Mystery

I mean of course, the LS is but the TL is the best for FWD!

truonghthe

The ES is a long way compare to the LS. The gap is alot closer now then it was since Lexus decide to chop the GS from production line.

Midnight Mystery

The GS was the sweet spot

The_head

I have looked at them, they're just a little too big, and they didn't sell a whole bunch of them, so theyre kind of rare in the used car market.

I really like the GS350 too.

xjokerz

I love the RLX. Great car but I hate the VCM crap that wears out the engine and all those components faster just to save an extra 1/4 mpg in the ratings. Otherwise I'd strongly consider one.

The_head

Can you do the VCM muzzler for the RLX?

PhilB81

I test drove a GS300 (third gen 07 model) before settling for the TL-S. I felt like the ride was too stiff, the seats we just ok (friend had a older Lexus SC400 and I liked those seats better) and the transmission shifted as fast as my 1994 Jeep… so for all those reasons and most importantly I was too poor, I settled for the TL-S.
Honestly, though I didn’t care for it. My parents had an 07 LS460 at the time and I was hoping the GS would be sort of like that and it just wasn’t. The runner up was a 335, but again money.
I never drove the 2nd gen GS though, those seem cool.

Midnight Mystery

I have never really cared for the GS 300. I bet the GS 350 or GS 430/460 would be nice tho. Lexus usually has pretty small/flat seats from my experience. Really, the only thing that makes it better than the TL is the RWD.

I agree tho, the LS is just beautiful. At least the one's made form 07 until about 2012 or so, whenever they tried to make it look sporty

xjokerz

The LS is their flagship. Of course it's going to be a step up in quality over a GS. I have a 2002 LS 430 and it's crazy smooth and quiet. I think they took a step back with the 460 because, like Mystery said, they wanted to make a sporty flagship but that's not what the LS was.

PhilB81

LOL, agreed! When they went to front grills that look like the predator’s mouth, I lost interest. The only lexus that looks good to me is the LC500.

LS430 are nice. Guy around the corner from me had a white one he kept in perfect condition. I like boxy cars, I mean like Toyota Century, older Nissan president or Q45, r33 or r34 skyline, Benz E-class w124, G-wagon, etc. I would probably drive a brick if you put some headlights and a windshield on it.
anyways one other thing about the LS460, the Navi on that thing looked old when it rolled off the assembly line. I have not spent time with more recent systems but many reviews online still complain about them.

xjokerz

Same here. I can't stand all these extreme aerodynamic cars these days. The 430 is the curviest one I want to ever drive. Visibility is infinitely better out of it too, because in the 460 they had to make the roof sloping so badly that you can't see ANYTHING out the back. The tiny bunker windows on the sides don't help either. It's a pretty depressing place to be in. I had a 2011 ES and the feeling inside that is basically the same as the 460.

You're also correct about the navigation screen. That's what I loved about the 430. You could get that car without the screen, so you had a nice clean set of buttons for climate and stereo. No 20 year old navigation and a slow, pixelated touch screen looking like crap.

The new Lexus grilles are horrendous. Here's an example on a different model, which is perhaps the most glaring difference:




It's so hideous. I really don't know what else to say about it. The only reason people like it is because it signifies that the entire vehicle is new. The old one has class and style with the 4 headlamps without being too big.

Lexus has really lost their way. What I really can't understand is an F-sport package on an ES or LS. I mean, aren't those your ultimate comfort sedans? Talk about ruining a once great brand. Their styling is junk, their decision to can the V8 is baffling and to go ultra-sporty goes against what they stood for previously, and they offer NOTHING that is remotely as good as what they had in the mid-2000's.