Swat Dude

By "please explain", HD means put up a bunch of links that you don't understand yourself.

TLover

Alrighty, here we go. Something for me to do at work. It's HD vs. the world, round 89.

Norse396

Could be true, but in 10 years I'll be able to get a ton more for mine than you can for yours after it has seen 10, even if my car turns out to be utter crap it will be better crap and a pile of crap worth much more than your crap (hmmm how many times can I get crap in here? ). There isn't s single thing about that Camaro save the engine worth squat, but since that engine is stuck in a steaming pile of plastic crap it isn't worth anything either. I'd feel sorry for you but I can't, you deserve it, by the way, you have told everybody how crappy your car really is....

Norse396

Yup.... or, we could just drive to the nearest Chevy dealer and ask how much a new Camaro is.... :diablotin

Norse396

Yup, I'm done with this thread though, he can continue on his own or with others, no matter. 1le is hard at work searching this forum for that statement, poor guy.

UminChu

You know what is so classic about all this? HD hijacked his own thread, which was 100% off topic to begin with! How ironic is that? ROTFLMAO

svtmike

He did hijack his own thread, but it's not completely OT to be discussing vehicles that may be cross-shopped or in the same price range as the TL; we'd never discuss G35's, etc., if that were the case.

I still don't understand why he's here, though, in the first place. He doesn't seem to like us, he doesn't own a TL, and we don't seem to like him.

The last thing I'd want to spend my time doing is hanging out in, for instance, a Camaro forum just being a prick to everyone. But to each his own.

Mike

UminChu

I guess I both agree and disagree. Yes, the Chrysler is competitive. The act of placing TL in the thread's title was deceptive though, since his posted comparison had nothing to do with TLs. Instead, he compared present day Chrysler offerings with 60s vintage products. IMO, a thread with the sole intent of comparing Chyslers to Chryslers is OT in a Gen3 TL forum. In any case, hijacking his own thread still cracks me up.

vothsc

The current hemi started life in the Ram 2500 ( A TRUCK). I'm not talking ancient history other than Mopar crate engines. Secondly, from Chrysler's own numbers, they quote 0-60 at 6.2 sec. The TL 3.2 MT6 was tested by several mags at 5.8 sec. and I don't have to turn cylinders off to get good gas mileage either. In the TRUCK, it's rated at 12 MPG city without turning off cylinders. You know the last engine that did that and what happened to it - can anyone say Caty V-8-6-4. Thirdly, unless a miricle happened at Chrysler, their build quality can't touch Acura. I have a 2000 Dodge Dakota with 30,000 miles on it sitting in front of my house they may have to tow to the dealer to prove that. And lastly - the current engine is more of a Semi-Hemi - not a true complete Hemi.

digital_b

why does this stupidity go on? where is the mod to end the trolling?

harddrivin1le

The 300C with the hemi is rated @ 17/25. That's what my '86 Mustang GT was rated at, despite the fact that is made 150 less peak HP, was 800 poounds lighter and uses a manual tranny.

The V-*-6-4 was more than two decades ago; on-board computers (and the engine control permitted by them) barely existed then. In fact, Chrysler's cylinder deactivation is very similar in operation to Acura's V-Tec (sliding pin controlling valve lift).

You speak of Acura's "superior build quality," yet this forum is LOADED with complaints concerning POOR QUALITY CONTROL!

The new heads are superior to the old ("true hemi") heads in that they impart far more swirl in the combustion chamber @ lower RPMS. Have you SEEN the flow numbers for the new HEMI heads? Their potential is huge.

Skeedatl

Big words from someone obviously smoking themselves.

Puff puff give.

Skeedatl

I don't see the forums loaded with complaints of build quality.

But what I do see when I go to my Acura dealer buying accessories, are LINES OUT INTO THE STREETS at the Lincoln and Chevy dealers...lines of cars, most without plates yet, back for service. Meanwhile, my local Acura service department is like a ghost town as is the Infiniti dealer across the street and Lexus around the corner.

bktabinga

But as far as overall service throughout the years...

I've owned Acura vehicles since 1998, 3 of them, and I've always been able to call same day, and fit a car in for maintenance unless it was a major evolution. Everytime I bring the car in, I pull in, they take my car, I wait. No lines, like the Mitsubishi dealer I was at the other day to help my friend bring in her Montero Sport, it was like a circus.

MOst of the people ahead of me or behind are getting routine service.

And, really, most things in the Acuras I've owned that came up were minor, and I took them because, heck, they are under warranty, thats what the warranty is for.

My theory is that they are so nice and friendly, and so ready to give perks etc at other service locations, is that if they don't their will literally be a revolt at the dealership!!! haha.

Overall, IMHO, superior build quality.

harddrivin1le

Talk to "NORSE396."

"Lines of cars?" :lol2:

The headliner on my '99 Z28 is still where the factory intended it to be. My exhaust didn't rust within weeks of picking up the car, either. Additionally, the tires that came with my car were fine and didn't require immediate replacement via a manufacturer's recall/TSB.

How were the lines @ the local Buick dealership back in the 80's, where your turbo-regal was built? :think:

TLover

Whatever: 1 recall and 64 TSBs on 1999 Camaro (in classic cut-and-paste HD-style), and how long had the Camaro been out by 1999? Please don't compare GM quality to Honda/Acura.

Nature of Defect:
1. POWER TRAIN:CLUTCH ASSEMBLY Recall Number: 99V239000
Dates Manufactured: JUN 1999 to JUN 1999
Number of Vehicles Affected: 69
Date Owners Notified On: AUG 1999

Vehicle: 1999 Chevrolet Camaro
Defect Description:
Vehicle Description: Passenger vehicles equipped with manual transmissions. The clutch master cylinder may have been built with an incorrect retaining ring.

Consequence of Defect:
This may not allow the clutch system to disengage the clutch when the clutch pedal is depressed, resulting in unintentional vehicle movement, increased stopping distances, engine stalls, and difficulty in shifting.

Corrective Action:
Dealers will replace the hydraulic clutch master cylinder with a new cylinder.

POWER TRAIN:AUTOMATIC TRANSMISSION
POWER TRAIN:AUTOMATIC TRANSMISSION:CONTROL MODULE (TCM, PCM)
POWER TRAIN:AXLE ASSEMBLY
ENGINE AND ENGINE COOLING:ENGINE
POWER TRAIN:AUTOMATIC TRANSMISSION:CONTROL MODULE (TCM, PCM)
POWER TRAIN:AUTOMATIC TRANSMISSION:CONTROL MODULE (TCM, PCM)
STRUCTURE:BODY:ROOF AND PILLARS
ENGINE AND ENGINE COOLING:ENGINE
EQUIPMENT:ELECTRICAL
POWER TRAIN:AUTOMATIC TRANSMISSION:COOLING UNIT AND LINES
ENGINE AND ENGINE COOLING:ENGINE
ENGINE AND ENGINE COOLING:ENGINE:GASOLINE
ENGINE AND ENGINE COOLING:ENGINE:GASOLINE
ENGINE AND ENGINE COOLING:ENGINE:GASOLINE
POWER TRAIN:AUTOMATIC TRANSMISSION:LEVER AND LINKAGE:COLUMN SHIFT
FUEL SYSTEM, GASOLINE:STORAGE:TANK ASSEMBLY:FILLER PIPE AND CAP
STRUCTURE:BODY:ROOF AND PILLARS
POWER TRAIN:AUTOMATIC TRANSMISSION
STRUCTURE:BODYOOR
STRUCTURE:BODYOOR
POWER TRAIN:MANUAL TRANSMISSION
POWER TRAIN:AUTOMATIC TRANSMISSION
STRUCTURE:BODY
ENGINE AND ENGINE COOLING:ENGINE:GASOLINE
POWER TRAIN:AUTOMATIC TRANSMISSION
ENGINE AND ENGINE COOLING:ENGINE:GASOLINE
ENGINE AND ENGINE COOLING:ENGINE:GASOLINE
VISIBILITYEFROSTER/DEFOGGER SYSTEM
VISIBILITYEFROSTER/DEFOGGER SYSTEM
VISIBILITY:POWER WINDOW DEVICES AND CONTROLS
POWER TRAIN:AUTOMATIC TRANSMISSION
PARKING BRAKE
POWER TRAIN:AUTOMATIC TRANSMISSION
POWER TRAIN:MANUAL TRANSMISSION
POWER TRAIN:MANUAL TRANSMISSION
POWER TRAIN:AUTOMATIC TRANSMISSION
STRUCTURE:BODY
POWER TRAIN:AUTOMATIC TRANSMISSION
POWER TRAIN:AUTOMATIC TRANSMISSION:TORQUE CONVERTER
VISIBILITY:POWER WINDOW DEVICES AND CONTROLS
STRUCTURE:BODY:HATCHBACK/LIFTGATE
POWER TRAIN:AXLE ASSEMBLY
STRUCTURE:BODY
OTHER
FUEL SYSTEM, GASOLINE:FUEL INJECTION SYSTEM
FUEL SYSTEM, GASOLINE:FUEL INJECTION SYSTEM
FUEL SYSTEM, GASOLINE:FUEL INJECTION SYSTEM
ENGINE AND ENGINE COOLING:ENGINE:GASOLINE:BELTS AND ASSOCIATED PULLEYS
ENGINE AND ENGINE COOLING:ENGINE:GASOLINE
LATCHES/LOCKS/LINKAGES:TRUNK LID:LOCK
SEATS
AIR BAGSN-OFF SWITCH ASSEMBLY
SERVICE BRAKES, HYDRAULIC:FOUNDATION COMPONENTS
STEERING:COLUMN LOCKING:ANTI-THEFT DEVICE
SERVICE BRAKES, HYDRAULIC:FOUNDATION COMPONENTS
STRUCTURE:BODY:ROOF AND PILLARS
OTHER
POWER TRAIN
ENGINE AND ENGINE COOLING:ENGINE:GASOLINE
ENGINE AND ENGINE COOLING:ENGINE:GASOLINE
AIR BAGS
FUEL SYSTEM, GASOLINE:FUEL INJECTION SYSTEM
STRUCTURE:BODY
ENGINE AND ENGINE COOLING:ENGINE:GASOLINE

harddrivin1le

Post the link for that. Many of those TSBs are redundant.

And many TSBs do nothing more than introduce vehicle specific procedures for ROUTINE maintenance issues that weren't originally/properly addressed in the service manual.

NSX levels of performance for ~ 1/4 the $$$....

TLover

http://www.edmunds.com/maintenance/M...it2=++++Go++++

The redundancies are for different problems with the same component.

harddrivin1le

Many TSBs do nothing more than introduce vehicle specific procedures for ROUTINE maintenance issues that weren't originally/properly addressed in the service manual.

You'd know that if you ever read any.

EXAMPLES:

"Component Description:
17. STRUCTURE:BODY:ROOF AND PILLARS NHTSA Number: 269545
Bulletin Number: 052802
Bulletin Date: MAY 2002
SERVICE MANUAL ADVISES INCORRECT USAGE OF CONVERTIBLE TOP FLUID."

Component Description:
39. POWER TRAIN:AUTOMATIC TRANSMISSION:TORQUE CONVERTER NHTSA Number: 247161
Bulletin Number: 010730007
THIS BULLETIN IS TO INFORM DEALERS OF THE RELEASE OF A NEW TORQUE CONVERTER BOLT FOR CERTAIN TRANSMISSIONS.





When's Acura going to build a car that yields NSX levels of performance for ~ $22K?

GM did that way back in '98 (with the 1LE/LS1 F-bodies). And they even got BETTER MILEAGE and provided seating for 4 (in a pinch) and a LOT more cargo space.

TLover

Actually, I did realize that many of the TSBs were trivial/not important. But if you're hanging your hat on a sagging headliner and tire problems that are obviously NOT Acura's fault but Bridgestone's well ...

For the first year, I think the new TL is doing pretty well problem-wise.

harddrivin1le

When's Acura going to build a car that yields NSX levels of performance for ~ $22K?

GM did that way back in '98 (with the 1LE/LS1 F-bodies). And they even got BETTER MILEAGE (19/28 MPG per the EPA) and provided seating for 4 (in a pinch) and a LOT more cargo space.

TLover

Look, I've already admitted to you that I like the Camaro for what it is. Two of my best friends bought one (one still has his '96). BANG for the buck, those Camaros are hard to beat out of the box. But I sat in the back seat of one during a road trip from the S.F. to Reno ... never again!

UminChu

Interesting. In a TL forum, in a thread that you yourself initiated, a thread that specifies TL in its subject, in post#59, you finally enter a post specifically dedicated to an Acura model (interestingly, not a TL). Equally interesting is that that very same post only centers around Acura as an excuse to segue into trolling and debunking Acuras in general. Nice job, take a bow.

Skeedatl

THey're only trivial to a Slomero owner because there are so many other problems with them. It's like getting punched in the stomach and shot in the head. When you own a Slomero, you're so preoccupied with being shot in the head that the punch in the stomach is trivial.

harddrivin1le

Tell us about how aluminum heads permit "vastly higher" compression ratios....

And then tell us all about the "myth" of RAM AIR. :banghead:

svtmike

And then you can tell us all about how the center of mass of a wheel moves outward with larger wheels :banghead:

harddrivin1le

You don't know ANYTHING about ANYTHING. :thefinger

So all you can do is flame others.

svtmike

Lame comeback, harddrivin, even for you.

harddrivin1le

You don't.

svtmike

I don't what?

harddrivin1le

know anything.

YOU DON'T KNOW ANYTHING. AS AS RESULT, ALL YOU ARE CAPABLE OF DOING IF FLAMING OTHERS.

How's your Contour running, Mike? :lol2:

TLover

Don't get sucked in Mike. He's only doing it so he has someone to talk to.

Skeedatl

:lol1: Already did, in both cases. With ram air, you went from posting WS6 articles (obvious street applications) to talking about 170MPH motorcycles and 300+ MPH WWII era airplanes (which in the first post I stated ram air isn't effective 'till Mach .5...took you about 60 posts to get to that point going as far as molesting Bernoulli's Equation and claiming V is Velocity in the Combined Gas Law), to even more faulty experiments which used turbos to replicate ram air. And with aluminum heads you went from asking for high compression alum heads; showed you. Then you demanded they run on pump gas; showed you. Proven wrong yet again, you demanded they be otto cycle engines only; showed you. After completely being made a fool of, you then idiodically demand that the application be a SBC, V6 Buick (non-turbo of course) or other ancient iron block motor with the planets aligned, tides high, dog & cats living together blah blah blah.

Let's not forget your copied marvelous cotton filter experiments, where the experiments you hail about had ZERO environmental controls, measured color as the key of filtering performance and only tested them for 500 miles.

You are an idiot and get OWNED here on a daily basis...EVERYONE laughs at you.

People, including myself, PROVE you wrong day after day, time after time and you just go right on as if it didn't happen...off on another tangent.

svtmike

Wow, that's quite a sentence. You actually misspelled "a" and "is". I don't think I've ever seen that before.

My Contour is actually running very well, as it always did when I owned it, for the person who bought it.

Mike

Skeedatl

This coming from the guy who thinks aluminum heads can't run higher compression than iron, paper filters flow as well at cotton at 10K miles, larger wheels have a different center of mass than smaller wheels, and ram air on a WS6 actually does something other than sell cars to idiots like him (ram air is domestic RICE).

Quit while you're behind 1LE. You're just makes your fool hole bigger by the post.

harddrivin1le

The bike in that article exibited a NOTICEABLE GAIN in air box pressure (and power) @ 70 MPH - ON THE ROAD. That isn't "Mach 0.5."

http://www.sportrider.com/tech/146_9508_ram/

Octane for Octane and head configuration to head configuration, aluminum allows for a ~ 0.5:1 increase in STATIC compression, which results in THE SAME dynamic compression ratio due to aluminum superior heat transfer.

I never once attributed "V" to velocity in the perfect gas law.

I said that as V (VELOCITY) drops, PRESSURE rises. That has nothing to do with the prefect gas law and I never once claimed that it did.

Skeedatl

No, you attributed V to velocity in the Combined Gas Law and it was a hoot.

You obviously weren't an engineering major...but you obviously have experience in Revisionist History. Of course no mention of the WS6 articles, instead going to 170MPH motorcycles and 300MPH airplanes. You mulletheads are too funny.

Another lame 1LE thread brought to you by CTRL+C and CTRL+P.

harddrivin1le

Show me where I ONCE stated that V was VELOCITY in the Combined Gas Law.

The Combined Gas Law doesn't have a damn thing to do with RAM AIR and why pressure rises as velocity falls.

V is VELOCITY in the Bernoulli Equation (where P is pressure).

AND:

http://www.sportrider.com/tech/146_9508_ram/

"The maximum pressure we were able to generate on the dyno was approximately 30mb, which gave a peak of 131 bhp from a ZX-9R as compared to the 123 bhp measured at rest. In other words, each 10mb increase in inlet pressure is worth approximately 2.6 bhp [2.1% of nominal peak HP] at peak on a derestricted 9R."

TLover

You are right, you weren't quoting the Combined Gas Law, but ...

http://acura-tl.com/forums/showpost....1&postcount=85

Skeedatl

http://www.acura-tl.com/forums/showp...0&postcount=80
http://www.acura-tl.com/forums/showp...9&postcount=85

And on the dyno they used a blower to get that whopping .435113 PSI.