The Latest Consumers Report paid the TL a nice compliment by rating it higher than the RL in luxury car comparison. The bottom line seems to be that the awd doesn't really do that much and the RL and TL has just about the same interior space. Plus the RL is $ 15,000 higher. No wonder they aren't moving.

 

While I agree that the RL doesn't give enough return for the investment (it needs a V8, more space, etc), I for one do not put much weight into anything CR says about cars - they treat them like any other household applicance - toasters, for example. On a CR perf vs dollar basis, an Accord is better than, say, a Bentley Continental or Flying Spur. But if you had the coin, maintenance was someone else's concern, etc. which would you rather see in your driveway tomorrow? I doubt CR would notice.

They have also done hatchet jobs on companies - I think their reports on the tendency of some SUV's to roll-over was sensationalism pure and simple - in one of the most "DUH" reports ever. Let's see: short wheelbase, high center of gravity, jerk the wheel hard and they can flip!! Notify Security! To the presses!!! NHTSA - start the recall process!

There is little passion in a CR test report. Cars for most people are toasters, but for those of us that love cars and loive driving, there are intangibles that factor in buying and owning. The RL has a very nice driving dynamic to it, better than the TL's, but I for one would not, and did not, buy an RL, so I voted with my $'s. I did drive an RL and might have upgraded to it, but it did not have enough ROI for me. It is very nicely bolted together, though.

And those long term ratings of subsystems based on owner reports....statistically weak, subject to the biases of those reporting, and does CR even check them? As I recall, for years they had "body rust" as an issue for Corvettes - huh? I could have sworn they were made out of GRP or SMC (glass reinforced platsic, or sheet molded compound). I guess not - must be rusty cast iron or something.

Plus, CR is nowhere near as "unbiased" as folks think - read the transcripts of the Bose vs CR case for example, and you will never look at either of those companies the same again).

 

I agree with both posts above:

1. I believe the TL is a superior car to the RL (seriously). If I had to do it over again, and even if the price was closer than $15k, there is no way I'd get an RL. Even little things like the cheap plastic/rubber around the door frames and small rear door openings would drive me back to the TL.

2. I think CR is a farse.

 

Hmmm. In the Luxury Sedan category, CR's top-rated car is now the Infinity M35. In second place is the Acura TL #5 is the BMW 530i. #9 is the Acura RL. #11 is the Lexus GS300.

In the Upscale Sedans category, their top-rated car (as of the April Auto Issue) was the Acura TL, closely followed by the BMW 330i, then the Lexus IS300. Following those are the Lexus ES330, Mercedes C320, Lincoln LS, Acura TSX, Audi A4, and Cadillac CTS.

Does this sound like a company that looks at cars just like toasters? Does it bother people that much that they consider reliability as important, completely unlike magazines like Car and Driver and others, who ignore that aspect of ownership and love brands like Land Rover?

Has anybody that complains about CR bothered to actually READ an auto test by CR in the last few years? Somehow, they seem to like the same cars "enthusiasts" like. They like the TL too! Also, unless someone can provide objective evidence, I'd put the statement that CR rated the Corvette low in reliability due to rusting as an "urban legend". Somebody brought that up on another forum a few years ago, but nobody could track it down. (Also note that the Corvette does have parts that can rust. Just look at some of the complaints on this board about suspension parts rusting on the TL (or even brake rotors....). People that complain about that stuff may downrate the car for rust, however unfair that may be. Plus, CR doesn't invent the reliability ratings. They survey actual owners of the cars, who happen to also subscribe to CR, so it was Corvette owners that complained about rust, not CR, if this is correct info. If the reliability ratings could in any way be attacked, wouldn't low-rated brands like VW, Land Rover and others quickly and successfully sue CR for lost sales? Hasn't happened.)

CR, if you actually read the issues where they list their staff members, clearly has a large auto department. These people test autos, not toasters, and lots of them came from the auto industry. I'm not defending everything CR says or does, but they frequently get an unfair rap on forums like this. Having actually read the magazine, it looks to me like most of the people that complain about it haven't even read it, at least recently.

Flame away.

 

In my opinion . . .

The TL is a great near-luxury car. I had an '05 and I enjoyed what you got for the money. However, I and many other previous TL owners have found the upgrade to the RL worth every penny. FYI, most RL's are going for low 40's now.

For me it's the overall styling, fit and finish, seating comfort, ride quality, Noise Canceling Technology, keyless entry and start, SH-AWD (highway on-ramps at 80 are a blast ), active front lighting, general interior layout with real wood trim, heated driver's seat back (not just bottom), upgraded Navi w/ traffic, 1 year of XM and Onstar, power steering wheel, power rear sunshade and side shades, MID controls on the steering wheel, paddle shifters, tire pressure monitors and MP3 capable stereo that made my choice easy. That and the TL's annoying rattles drove me crazy.

Check out the RL forum. There are a ton of posts from former 04-05 TL owners giving experienced based opinions on why they prefer the RL over their previous ride.

There are also a ton of other publication reviews.

Edmunds review:
http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do...ticleId=106555

Car and Driver review:
http://www.caranddriver.com/article....rticle_id=8916

 

No flaming from me... I totally agree with you. Acura owners bought their vehicles with pride due to the fact that they have very high reliability ratings overall. CR is a perfect place to check what owners (enthusiast or not) say about their vehicles. You don't have to be an enthusiast to know that your car is reliable. Trust me, if no one really cared about reliability they'd be in the BMW/Mercedes forums as we speak.

Good post Hybrid.

 

I have long said that most people think of cars as throw-away items.. as washing machines. Evidence of this can be found in the way, manner, and places of how and where they park, the stuff they allow to accumulate within the cabins, and the general treatment their cars receive. Also, the fact that so many of them freely admit that they "hate to drive".

I have no problem with this. After all, it's their money and their cars. But I certainly do have a problem with these kinds of people when they get on my case because I'm anal about my car. A number of times at work, people have told me, "it's just a car". But as with any gearhead worth his salt, there just ain't no such thing as "just a car" when it comes to our personal driving machines.

I do read CR articles and take them into consideration. But I do so along with other information and my own experiences and perceptions at road test time when I am in the market. I figure, the more info, the better off I am.

I could no more buy an RL than I could a Rolls Royce because.. well, you can't get a manual transmission in these machines. Also, I think the new RL is rather poor to look at.. no where as nice as the TL. Yep, a personal preference. The new Mustang far exceeds the looks of the RL in my opinion. But then again, it far exceeds the looks of just about anything on the road. Yep, personal preference.

Gentlemen, the beauty of all of this is choice. We have it and thank God for it.

 

I vote with Hybrid and SouthernBoy.
I had subscription to Consumer Reports, and have subscriptions to Car and Driver & Autoweek. More info the better, and CR takes a more day-to-day user (v. enthusiast) based view of cars. Most of us don't care about a usable cubic foot of trunk room either way, but for those that do, CR can be helpful.

 

Actually, I bought my TL before CR even tested/rated it. So obviously, CR is only one consideration for me, even though I came to their defense above. (Even if you don't "believe in" CR, you might want to consider it's opinions/testing, as resale values are higher for cars they rate highly!) In addition to CR, I subscribe to Car & Driver and Automobile Magazine (not sure I'll renew).

And, like Southernboy said, most people DO treat their cars like appliances. They see people who don't as a little "odd."

 

Yeah, weird isn't it? I mean, look at it this way. There are people who are seriously into cameras and spend many thousands of dollars on their equipement, even to building a dark room in their house for developing they photographic efforts. Suppose they were tos show you a new telephoto lens they just bought and you started putting your fingers all over the fine glass. They'd go nuts.. have a cardiac arrest. But they think nothing of opening their doors on your car or putting their grocery bags on your trunk lid while they open up their own trunk. The problem is the "washing machine syndrome" they fail to think of a car as anything more than an appliance.. something to take them from point A to point B. But their camera equipment? Well now, that's a whole different matter.

Weird how their thought processes work. I tend to think of ANY and ALL property as having value and of major significance. It's the Southern in me. We were raised to respect things that people owned, the natural progression by which led to a healthy respect for people as well. It worked.

 

Other examples, for passengers in the car:
They think nothing of seeing a little dust or some fingerprints on the Navi touch screen (or instrument cluster plexiglass), and "scrub" the screen with a bare hand or something abrasive to "clean" it for you. (At least they're trying, I guess).
They step on the door sills with gritty shoes, or kick the door open with their shoe on the door panel.
Sitting on the hood or fender.

Another example of "other peoples' obsessions":
The way some people see a cat or dog as "nice" but kind of disposable/replaceable ("just a pet"), vs. other people that spend a fortune on them, and would think nothing of spending thousands of dollars on a surgery or other procedure, sometimes giving them better treatment they do for themselves or other people.

 

Excellent post, and excellent reasons to upgrade to the RL. I too had to cross off the RL off my list because I really wanted a 6MT this time around.

 

Also agree with Hybrid and SouthernBoy.

CR has come a long way from their rather sterile car reviews of the decades past. This was most evident when they tested a Vette for the first time (I though it was a C5 in the 90's). In that test/review CR even poked fun at CR for their previous rather anal-like observations at cars.

Although CR still takes vehicle testing pretty seriously they have lightened up some in the past couple decades. Heck they even test condoms now. Still the best resource for vehicle reliability data, although I really disagreed with their beer testing and have always though you can't put a score on loudspeaker testing.

 

Bad example for most... washing machines usually last a LONG time...

Mine is 17 years old and still going strong

 

To Formula 350;

Heh, heh. Point well taken.. good for you!