JackSampson

iTrader: (2)

This is not to bash anyone but it seems more and more people a using Tls as track cars. I can't understand why. It seems it would be a poor choice. Front wheel drive, heavy, not very powerful motor...

kurbs

they like to buy axles obviously

justnspace

iTrader: (1)

its fun. its different.

if its a dedicated track car; it out tracks m3's and more powerful cars.


the fwd suspension is one of the best; and is faster than a G35 around a track

vill0169

iTrader: (4)

What experience do you have to say one way or the other? Please enlighten me...

i_love_cars

iTrader: (1)

it's not a poor choice, lol. A manual trans TL comes with limited slip diff which helps a lot at the track, despite FWD.

Your comment about being too heavy is not really rooted in any facts. A stock 6-speed 3G TL (about 3500 pounds) weighs about 100 pounds more than a stock E46 M3 coupe (about 3400 pounds).

My boss is a track instructor at Road America in his spare time - he's been doing it for 20 years and has an e30 and an e36 m3 that he tracks, an APR Stage 3 audi a4, and previously an Evo that he tracked. Despite all these cars, he still has a blast driving my TL and is consistently impressed with how well it has been set up.

With basic mods that most cars will have anyway (such as RSB, good coilovers, lightweight wheels, SS brake lines with some good track day pads and rotors, and a couple hundred pounds of weight reduction) - the car does just fine and is a ton of fun to drive. You really don't know just how much of the understeer can be removed from this car with a little bit of work.

And as far as motor not being powerful - what do you define as powerful for the track? I mean shit my buddy's e46 m3 (headers and exhaust) puts out the same WHP my TL does and it only took me an extra $3k in performance mods to match that power. I'm door to door with him. Is the power of an M3 motor not good enough for the track? This isn't a drag strip we're talking about - powerful engines don't a good track car make. Stop thinking that way.

When I was up at Road America a few weeks ago, I saw tons of people in overpowered cars like Roush stage 2 mustangs, new vettes, an AC cobra, challenger r/t and they were all over the track trying to come out of turns. Even on the huge straightaway section of that track they couldn't make up enough time, because they struggled so much to come out of the turns.

Blackhawk Farms in northern illinois is another track that has mostly tight turns - powerful engines are useless there. I've literally watched my boss in his stock 1988 E30 M3, overtake a brand new v8 e92 M3 at that track. The point is there are tons of tracks out there, not all the same, and a powerful motor isn't the end-all-be-all.

When you actually get some experience at a track and drive it, you'll learn that power isn't everything. A good instructor at a track could drive a bone stock Pontiac G6 and will smoke anything you come with, if your attitude is that the car needs a ton of power. I've watched it happen. It'll also be the quietest lap you've ever seen.

Typically the people making the most noise at a track, are also putting down the WORST lap times.

Not trying to be a douche but you sound like someone who has just taken a lot of rhetoric from other people who don't actually know anything about actual racing on a track, and regurgitated it on our forum. Again, no offense - but a well-appointed 6mt TL can surprise a LOT of people at a track.

ez12a

Of course it's fine as a track car.

Honda R&D proper did it. It won its class in 2004 ('04 6MT TL)

http://www.hondatuningmagazine.com/e...l/viewall.html

CLtotheTL32

iTrader: (3)

^That's a Type-S

But yes, Honda did win a few events with a 2004 TL.

AccordFlex

iTrader: (1)

Because you have to drive a badass looking car when you win the race.

richardparker

iTrader: (7)

I would guess it's because it's what's in the garage and they start to build what they have.

Most don't go out to buy a car for a race build, they get bit by the mod bug and build their DD into a race car.

About they only thing I miss about a rwd car is fish tailing,and doing dounuts with them.

I find it challanging to try to get a fwd to hook up.

paperboy42190

iTrader: (7)

You can't understand why ppl track TLs, and I cant understand why you start threads like this.

JJH

iTrader: (1)

Nothing better than seeing a fully bolted civic kick the balls off a V8 Mustang on track day...

Steven Bell

iTrader: (2)

Possibly because the TL wasn't really built for the track....that's why they track it.....

BeezleTL85

Because

truonghthe

FWD-AWD-RWD all have advantage and disadvantage, track here is preferring to circuit racing and not drag strip. I seen a stock E36 328 beating the shit out of mustang and vette here in Lime Rock race park (small track), its all about balancing the car between power-tractions (grip)-suspension set up. Stock Type S suspension is great to start with since they put down 0.93g where the Z06 stay around 0.96-0.98 so it quite good with stock suspension.

Grand_hustle17

I dont get the purpose of this thread lol... Is there some kind of disclaimer stating that a TL cant be tracked? I mean, tracking a car is for your own experience and pleasure... A TL was made as a luxury car but people put mods on them... If things are what they should be and we werent given choices then life would be predictable and boring...

hansolo2k2

With front wheel drive TL, you can apply throttle and varying the rpm to get the best traction during cornering.

I hate cars

So much wrong with this thread. So much mis info. If you want to track a TL, good for you. I had fun at Willow in mine. If I were picking a car to build for the track, FWD would not be on that list.

You guys mention powerful RWD cars fish tailing when exiting turns, guess what FWD does when exiting a turn when you apply too much throttle..... It goes in a straight line. This is what the gas pedal is for. You have the choice to be anywhere between idle and full throttle. If the car is fishtailing when exiting a corner it's either not setup right or the driver sucks.

FWD can be competitive in the lower powered cars but as power levels go up you're going to see less and less FWD cars.

Did I miss something, is there a reason you can't control the throttle and rpms in a RWD car?

I hate cars

Steady state cornering is almost entirely dependent on the tires and not much else. The 1987 GNX with its live axle and horrible front suspension geometry pulled over .91G on the skid pad thanks to decent factory tires.

I've driven both iterations of the Z06 and while the numbers aren't a whole lot different, the dynamics are MUCH different. The Z06 will walk all over a TL with equal drivers in anything but steady state cornering. It puts the power down when exiting corners a lot better. It never loses its composure when going from gas to break to turning to accelerating. It's much more tossable than any TL. Lets not forget, not every track is super tight and power will matter more at the longer tracks not to mention those cars are a lot more long legged than the TL. They're happy cornering and braking deep into the triple digit speeds. It took a lot to get my TL stable at those speeds and even then it might barely compete with a stock Z06 but probably not.

The reality of it is this. The TL is fine for going out and having fun in something you probably already own with most of your gains coming from lightening the car which is free. The suspension is one of the best out there bar none and is just a set of springs and sway bars and shocks away from being track worthy. There are no outstanding flaws that need to be corrected. You can go to the track with little money invested and be competitive with M3s and the like. It's fine for this kind of use but most of the time when people decide to take racing to the next level they go RWD because the shortcomings of FWD are obvious be then.

As for a daily I hate the non communicative steering of these cars. I hate the jerkiness when getting on the throttle and the overly stiff steering wheel to damp the jerkiness that also kills steering feel. You can go from FWD to just about any non performance RWD car and have better steering feel. I liked that the TL was FWD because it saves me from myself, I enjoy going sideways way too much and this limits how much fun I can have in my daily driver but I'm ready to go back.

powdbyrice

Run whatcha brung.

Don't think most people (car enthusiasts or not) have the extra $$$ to run a dedicated track car. So, you invest a little bit in some good tires, suspension, and brakes and havr yourself some fun.

i_love_cars

iTrader: (1)

The only point being made about higher powered cars is that it isn't the end-all-be-all on a track, and the OP thinks the TL seems "underpowered" for the track which is utter nonsense.

Is RWD the ideal track platform? Yes. I don't think anyone here would try to suggest that FWD > RWD for controlling your car at the track. This isn't about the "best" track car or the "best" platform though - it's about whether or not the TL is viable as a track car, and it certainly is. You can reduce a lot of the understeer. You're still stuck with FWD but the LSD helps a lot.

With the exception of someone like EA and his 2500 pound TL, not many people are going to run hot laps for 6 hours in a TL. Most people who are going to track a TL have some suspension work but nothing over the top, and they take it out a few times a year. Not many people are going to "build" a TL as a track car - i don't think anyone would argue that. But there is a difference between trying to build a full out, dedicated track car and getting a car track-ready for 3-5 open track days a year. (and i guarantee the OP hasn't seen many people do or talk about going with a TL as a dedicated track car)

I don't know how else it can be stated - the TL is perfectly fine on the track and with minimal work you can reduce understeer enough to have fun with it and surprise some people while you're at it. What else is there? We know it's not a track monster and never will be. Doesn't mean it can't put down respectable lap times and it doesn't mean the car can't be "fun" to drive at the track, which is really what matters for 99% of the people who don't track for competition events.

anx1300c

iTrader: (2)

Hit the nail on the head with the "steady state cornering". My car, with the Konis, H&R's, Progress rear sway and Continental DW's (the summer tire, not DSW) is amazing once I pick a line and commit to it, but getting into/exiting that line, the FWD shortcomings/nose biased weight distribution are still glaringly present.

I hate cars

I agree with you here. I had a blast in my TL at the track despite it being an auto. This is a cheap car to make quick around the course. My main point was FWD is fine for the TLs power level. Fwd is not much of a disadvantage if any but it does become a problem eventually. Plus I like placing the car where I want it with the throttle and you can't do that with FWD. However, those comparing a TL to a Z06 based on skid pad numbers need to drive both, I think it would be an eye opener. The Z06 is a very different experience feeling much more nimble and tossable. Hp does matter. More on some courses, less on others.

Phat_Type S

Why not ???

Grand_hustle17

Lmao... "i love cars and i hate cars" going at it lol, am i the only one to find humor in that? Lol

TheLowLife

I hate cars

The TL is fine against stockish non prepped cars. If you're happy in that class, good. It's fun to take to the track as I've said several times but not as fun as a RWD car in the same class. Ive posted my experiences at the track. I beat an M3, even a C5 Vette. I also change my rsb to the firm setting for the short track and the soft setting on the long track the one time i got to run it in the TL. Maybe it's my desire to go sideways lol. I've taken other cars to the track and when I couldn't pull off a good lap time I gave up and turned it into my personal drift contest. It didn't make the officials very happy, I didn't know they would shut you down for that, but it was fun while it lasted.

350

iTrader: (4)

Just to start, I don't track the TL and I bought it as a beater. That being said since I'm in it every day I wanted it to be a little better in the corners and put on some adjustable shocks which nearly eliminated the understeer in all normal conditions. If I decide to do another upgrade or three I'd be halfway curious how it would feel around a track. I think very few people would be looking for a dedicated track car and pick a TL, but if you already have one why not have fun with it? Handles the best of any FWD car I've driven. I've heard of a lot of autocrossers using old CRX's and Civics, they're FWD but nimble and lightweight. Maybe I'm just getting old but I don't think FWD is the worst thing in the world anymore. My other car is RWD and set up more for drag racing but can also take a corner better than my TL, if I upgraded the brakes it would be a great track/autox car.

While I'm rambling, anybody on here auto x? I've been thinking about trying it with my SS for years but I think the TL might be better at it so maybe I'll try with that, just haven't seen anyone on here doing it.

Will Y.

A few other members have autocrossed the TL as well.

I'm running a stock car with all-season tires. Yes, I do get it to oversteer on purpose in certain areas of certain tracks.

However, your TL will be in the "Street Prepared" class (unless you've got drilled, slotted or larger-than-stock rotors, in which case you'll be in Street Modified ), where more cars can be modded to be more competitive than the TL.

trancemission

after tracking the Lotus it would be like driving a school bus around the track

catmx

I plan on taking my 2005 TL to Palm Beach International Raceway on July 5 to run their 2 mile road coarse. Hosted by Performance Driving Group.
http://performancedrivinggroup.com/
Anyone in south Florida that is interested can sign up on the Website. Would be nice to see other TL's out there and meet other TL fans.

4drviper

me too