FiveLiterCheater

Sooo...I was trying to move my car up the driveway this morning with my dad guiding me and I couldn't even make it up! I still have the stock tires on (Turanzas) and theres about 28k on them. I know...they suck, and they barely have any tread on them, BUT my dad said one wheel got stuck in a patch, and the other wheel(which was on clear pavement) wouldn't even move. I'd figure if one wheel looses traction, the other wheel would try to catch no? He said the driver wheel wouldn't even budge....I turned VSA off and what do you know....I made up the driveway....I also put it in 2nd gear through sport shift....Just wondering if this is normal?

mike1988

Ye the other wheel should catch some traction i know mine in the snow is awesome, the car is like a 4 wheel drive, i had no problems getting anywere this morning in the snow. I only have 4500K miles on my tires so maybe they just have more traction than yours do, you should get a second opinion thow. Hope you get an answer.

JoeyASPEC

The TL comes std. w/ a limited slip differential, thus it should have distrubuted power more efficiently. In your case, it was just VSA thinking you have too much goin on on one side of the car, so it put the brakes on the other.

We got a lot of snow last night, and during my drive to school VSA only turned on about 3-4 times over a 40 minute period when turning or engaging the throttle on highly slick surfaces. My ABS turned on twice, but nothing major.

QUESTION:
I was on the Grand Central this morning behind a Honda Accord (in the left lane) and for some reason every few minutes or so (s)he would drive onto the left shoulder (just enough so the left tires would be in the shoulder lane and the right tires in the left lane) for about 5 seconds and then come back onto the left lane. Is there a reason for this that anyone's aware of? This weirded me out @ first but then I was wondering if it had any benefit, since the TL is the same drivetrain layout as the Accord. I'm not gonna try it, but it would satisfy my curiosity.

EDIT: IDK if this matters, but the road had the usual mushy brown slippery snow and the shoulder lane had fresh white snow.

kappa821

i drove my tl this morning and have 20k miles. Live in north jersey no problems for my baby. TL has been a beauty in the snow compared to my old cougar RWD drive sucks. Lets just hope for SH-AWD on the 09 TL

FiveLiterCheater

I have an auto, so as far as I know, I don't have an LSD.

XS2K

To Joey: Were you tailgating the Accord? Sometimes, when I feel like being a jerk and someone is right on my ass, I drift on to the shoulder to spray the car behind me to get him/her to back off. Or the other reason; if the road is really slick, putting a couple of wheels on the shoulder will allow the tires to pick up some snow & gravel that gives you a little more traction if the regular lane you are driving on is very icy.

01clsstock

today was my first day in the snow with the cls and i was impressed it felt alot safer than my old talon tsi

JoeyASPEC

No, in snow like this, I usually leave about a car length or two between myself and any vehicle in front of me. Tailgaiting would have done me no good b/c all traffic was going 20-30 in a 55 and pulsing brakes in the snow = bad idea. I don't like it done to me, so I try not to do it. Thanks for the input though, I was like "what the hell is this person doing?!"

S3XY TL-S

My TL-S did pretty well in the snow. Got stuck once but was able to make my way out

jupitersolo

Were are you in ffx? I saw a S WDP the other day on West Ox at 50.

S3XY TL-S

Was probably me! I haven't seen another S WDP in the area, and I travel 50 everyday

xcelir8TL

I had same problem as you, but we had too much snow and even in 2nd gear with VSA off it sucked. I hate ABS on this car too. I don't have snow tires and wish I did. Ahh, for the next winter season I guess.

S3XY TL-S

We usually don't get a lot of snow here in Northern Virginia, so I was actually a little bit scared to drive in it. I got stuck and had to keep going in reverse then in drive. I have the all season tires so once it ate through the snow and the tires got on the asphault it wasn't so bad. My VSA light kept flashing - which is normal I suppose.

Meek32v6

iTrader: (7)

mine honestly does pretty well...especially with the CT RSB. Its harder to get it to slide in empty parking lots but thats what its suppose to do. Totally different than last year. I had to take the VSA off last year and use SS when i was at my parents house to make it in their driveway. I ended up just spinning til they burned through the ice and got up the hill. Was pretty cool. I think i just like pushing my car to the limits in any weather. Its nice to know what they are capable of. Thats why i recommend empty parking lots

docbass

A car length or two? Are you serious...general rule of thumb is 1 car length for every 10MPH -- ON DRY SURFACE -- no wonder there are so many accidents

Laxplaya11385

slap some good snow tires on there, and you'll be ok.

avs007

Traction control is supposed to brake the slipping wheel, so that an open-diff will route torque to the other wheel.

If it still couldn't make it up, it means the TCS wasn't braking the slipping wheel hard enough...

(An open diff will always send the same torque to both wheels. In a slipping case, the torque to the non-spinning wheel will equal the torque that it takes to overpower the brakes on the spinning wheel)

Eoanou

Driving on the highway was no problem for me, I put it in 5th went 50mph and had no problems, but abrupt stopping and accelerating will get you every time.

FiveLiterCheater

It was braking the wrong wheel though lol....

If it had braked the wheel stuck in the snow, and sent the power to the wheel on the pavement, it wouldve made it out...

ironviet

yeah the philly south jersey area got a decent amount of snow overnight and these Fulda tires were put to the test for the first time. I am estimating that 3-4 inches were on the ground at 7am this morning. During acceleration and braking the summer tires performed exceptionally well and way better than the michelins that I had before. Now these tires are directionals that perform well in the rain but I thought they would suck in the snow and it didn't. I was able to go up 15 degree incline without having to shut off the VSA. The Fulda Quantum Elite which I am hearing is identical to the Goodyear Eagle F1's but at a cheaper price has exceeded expectations.

pimpin-tl

The TL has a open diff not one with a LSD. So if one wheel loses traction it will just spin faster and the other is at idle. If it had a LSD like the 6MT model has, then if one loses traction it transfers some power to the other wheel which will allow it to turn still.

Eoanou

He's right, A/T TL does not have LSD therefore if one wheel spins it'll keep spinning while the other wheel remains stationary, I have absolutely no idea why they decided not to offer LSD in the A/T, but for whatever reason they don't.

avs007

That's not true when you have traction control... If you brake the spinning wheel, the gear on that side of the differential will slow-down, resulting in the opposite gear starting to spin around the center plate. That's how traction control is supposed to work.

However, the amount of torque that it is able to send to the other side of the differential is going to equal the amount of torque that it takes to overpower the brakes on the spinning wheel. If the TCS isn't braking the spinning wheel hard enough, then not enough torque is being transfered to the other wheel. If the other wheel was really never getting any torque, then the car would roll backwards.

A LSD works in a similar fashion as traction-control from a technical sense... A mechanical LSD has a spring-loaded clutch. When one wheel spins faster than the other, the clutch-pack is providing a small amount of torque on the gear on that side of the center-plate. The gears behave just like in the VSA example, and torque is sent to the other wheel. The torque sent over, is equal to the amount of torque it takes to overpower the spring-loaded clutch...

In a VLSD it's the same thing except it's the torque it takes to overpower the viscous binding.

So whether the torque acting against the spinning wheel comes from the brakes, the mechanical clutch, or a viscous coupling, the end result is the same.

avs007

Here is a link with a nice animation of how differentials work. You can see that TCS and LSD will have the same end-result.

JoeyASPEC

1 car length for every 10 mph. (which nobody does - if people did that it'd be a lot easier to get places.) 20 mph = 2 car lenghts. A car length or two - thats what I said. Which adds to why I drive in the left lane - shoulder lane to drive into in the event of anything unavoidable...

Anyway, today my buddies and I (long story short) were going out to Target (after helping one of our other friends get her E-Class Mercedes out of the snow for a half hour! I've always hated MB, and now even more) and I wasn't satisfied with the way my TL's VSA would turn on every few friggen seconds when accelerating (even slowly). I turned it off, but it took long to get out of the snow.

How do you guys first start out in snowy conditions?

TLin05

1. Very slowly.
2. If possible, in my wife's CR-V! Powerful 2WD cars w/ low profile tires are NOT good in the snow

jayunsplanet

iTrader: (1)

When I was snowblowing and shoveling this morning, and had to move the cars out of the driveway. I turned VSA off on my Dad's 3rd gen and TCS on my 2nd gen. Worked like a charm.

06AM6MT

I have been amazed at how well the TL has done in the snow... (6-10 inches here)... of course manual helps...

jupitersolo

+1, mostly leave TL sit and if wifes CRV is here then I go out.

t7n7

NO LSD my friend... which sucks big time.

pimpin-tl

It is still true when you have traction control. I know many cars that have traction control and still spin one tire. Traction control can only do so much. This is why LSD is the best out there for handling and bad weather conditions on a fwd car.

Thank you for posting the link, it just backs my claim up more.

avs007

Like I said earlier, the TCS just isn't braking the spinning wheel hard enough... LSD and TCS work the exact same way to transfer torque to the non-spinning wheel. Only difference is that the TCS engages the brake to slow the wheel, mechanical LSD uses springs, VLSD uses veins.

The Deutche Museum in Munich has a very good live demonstration of this. They have a setup with a BMW and Mercedes going up an incline, with a set of lockable rollers on one side. They lock the rollers and unlock while the car is on the rollers. And they also leave them unlocked and attempt to ascend the incline...

In both cars, when the TCS is engaged, the car ascends the incline. In both cars with TCS turned off, the car rolls backwards when the rollers are unlocked partway up, and the car is unable to ascend past the rollers.

There is a video on the side of the display, that shows how the TCS works in regards to the open diff and torque transfer....

Acura's TCS probably isn't braking the wheel hard enough for the incline you have at your house.

JoeyASPEC

Yeah I realized I messed up about the LSD only being on the 6MT. Anyway... I think after today I'm just gonna let it sit and let the sun melt the snow. Tomorrow is an inside day for me! lol

tidus888

LOL VSA is doing me no good in the snow... LOL

only got 12k km on the car... stupid snow in toronto.... but worst for pople in the states...

i guess i need snow tire

3stageWDP

guys just know that spinning wheels on snow is not good for your transmission. I wouldn't push too hard when plowing out of a rut.

just my