chris2k5

Hey everyone, I am Chris and I am just new to the forums. I live in Boston for preference

I am out in a purchase for a TL or G35. I test drove both and I was really leaning toward the G35 but, I found the RWD. Believe it or not, the salesman told me he didn't recommend the G35 RWD because of snow and wanted me to upgrade to the AWD. I saw the price $36,000?

I went down the street to the Acura dealer and test drove it and its not as sporty but I did like how it did have FWD.

My question is...

How does the Acura TL perform in snow? I am not the type of guy who has time for the winter tire change every year and I highly doubt I will buy them :\.

SteveP66

Will let you know as soon as we get some here in Rhode Island. But I gotta tell ya I love me new TL !!!!!

chris2k5

Thanks, I will welcome anyone who has driven in snow to give me advice.

I actually really prefered the 06 TL's interior because it seemed more upscale. I will check out the 07 G35 soon and I will see. I think the RWD just broke the deal though...

I communute most of the day all the way up to Concord, NH and sometimes to Worcester, MA and I can't have RWD. I would love it if New England had summer year round .

ding069

i live in RI as well and if you commute and this is your only automobile, a RWD just won't cut it. you should either look into the AWD G35 or the TL......

Zoser

I have an 05 TL Navi with the Michelin tires.

I was trying to get out of a long driveway with snow and ice on a gentle hill going up to the road. I had to back up twice to get out. It was fine on the road tho. I use my AWD Talon in the snow since it's old and I have that option.

Also, last fall I backed down a gravel driveway that was fairly steap and couldn't drive out. A big guy got out and pushed until I was free.

I really love my AWD but would prefer FWD to RWD any time in the snow.

That said, I love my TL and am glad I purchased it.

vc123

i have an 06 tl with Michelin tires. those tires r NOT too good in snow... safety first !!! TL + winter tires (Y)

parabolica

I have an 04 TL Navi and the past two winters in Toronto have used the all-seasons (Michelin Pilot Sport A/S). The TL is largely reliant on its traction and stability control on these tires when the snow is more than light.

Final

Id go with the AWD and if youre looking at the 2007 model of the G35 its well equipped. If youre expecting a climate with heavy snow get the AWD, I find my TL slipping in the rain with ease.

sixsixfour

coming from an AWD car community (Evo GSR, Evo MR) Id like to share some useful info with you.

first off, dont just readily believe that AWD will make a car invincible in the snow. it doesnt. for the most common snow applications, most cars do fine, just get the right tires. if you must, get actual snow tires, the narrow ones. the reason being is that most regular (and wide) tires dont "dig" in to the snow.

take for example a common stock tire size : 235/45 R17. wide tires flatten and compact the snow, making it hard & slippery (kinda like the way when you stomp on fresh snow with wide boots). this is where even the most sophisticated AWD cannot save you, just as AWD is not neccessarily a cure to avoid sliding in the rain.

snow tires are narrower and have slightly sharper tread (racing snow tires have actual studs). the idea being is that they "dig" in deeper through the snow and actually find gravel (or concrete) and give you grip. I have worked with Rhys Millen Racing before they switched to Pontiac and I was there when we went to a couple snow rallies.

FWD is in my opinion (based on experience) better at snow conditions with the appropriate tires since you have the steering receiving power from the engine. whereas if you had RWD, there is less chance of the fronts "digging in" since they do not receive power.

given that the average snow tire is about 140 bucks, i find it cheap insurance if you live where it snows a considerable amount.


hope this helps.

massr1

Its all about the tires you decide to put on. If you have the stock michelins, you'll be ok, but don't expect to get out easily in certain situations. Slap on a set of any good winter tires, all you'll be set. Dave yourself a few grand and get the TL with winter tires for extra piece of mind. FWD + winter tires = just as good as AWD.

sixsixfour

so true.

crazymjb

Yet so not... The TL will do great once you are moving, but getting moving is the problem. Below is a picture taken after sliding to the bottom of my street(dead end hill) and getting stuck, resulting in over an hour of pushing efforts. Meanwhile the residents of that house have AWD and never have any problems. This year I have my Z71 to pull the car up, and we will have the MDX to replace the minivan.

The new G35 is a lot nicer than the previous generation, and due to the AWD would probably have gotten our pick had it been out when we got our TL... But now, we will hold on to the TL until the 2011 TL-S comes out. You would have to be insane to not get AWD on a car that offered it living in NE.

People are right to say AWD does not make you invincible, but man does it help.

Pictures speak louder than words:


Mike

S PAW 1

The 6MT has a limited slip differential, which can be a good thing for winter driving
Am in my second season with Michelin Pilot A/S, and feel confident on them getting me through an Ohio winter.
'05 6MT NBP
K&N Typhoon intake
V1 on the lookout

kenny5

On a related subject (and not at all trying to hijack this thread), what are recommended winter tires for the TL? I have an 06 auto w/ nav, and have been researching Tirerack for potential choices. Since my TL comes with TPMS, do I also need to equip the winter tires with these sensors? Also, do they have to be the IDENTICAL size as the OEM Michelins?

massr1

Your car in this picture is on all seasons, of course that could happen. If you had winter tires on that would have been a totally different story.

JERU

If you get the TL, plan on getting some Winter Tires. Those Michelin Pilots are barely average in the rain and really bad in the snow. All season my ass. Pittsburgh has nothing but hills and mountains and we get our share of snow. I know you guys in Boston get smacked with those snow storms out of no where. And that is the problem, if it was about sleeping in a extra hour to let them clear the streets, thats one thing, but we all know snow comes down when we don't need it:

Just met that girl at the club and she wants you to take her home? Guess what, its snowing
and you got Michelin Pilots. After she sobers up watching you spin your way around the parking lot, somebody rolls by in a G35 AWD and offers her a lift...

Those Pilots are excellent on dry pavement, but not much else in my 2 year experience with them. I have Goodyear Ultra Grips on aftermarket rims for the winter. Those Pilots have no sipes, no design to funnel/shed snow or rain. You will pay one way or the other, the bodyshop or TireRack..

Spiritman

It's just this easy---
TL + Bridgestone Blizaks = FUN!!!

Its a great handling car. Summer or winter. With the right tires!

neuronbob

Threads like this come up every winter. I had my 2004 TL for three heavy winters and it did fine in heavy Cleveland snows. Just use your head and drive moderately, and you'll get by with good all-season rubber. I've never bought snow tires. Then again, the Ohio Department of Transportation salts the roads around Cleveland at the least provocation (hats off to them!).

crazymjb

It doesn't matter right here. Sure they would help (and I have asked for them) but we have had plenty a car with winter tires get stuck here. According to mapquest this isn't a dead end, so people come down, and go down, and than get stuck. If they aren't neighbors we watch them squirm until the tow truck gets here. Is it possible the over 100 different cars that have gotten stuck here since we moved here didn't have winter tires, sure... But unlikely.

I don't think an AWD car has ever gotten stuck here. One of the big problems is the hill goes down, than is perpendicular to another road. So the nature of our driveway is once we leave, you start sliding at an angle. Last year we spent 2 hours pushing a family friends car up who had snow tires. We have had everything from ambulances to oil trucks get stuck.

Again, if you are buying a new car in snow territory, you should definitely consider something with AWD.

Mike

prelude81

Get the G35x. In snow, there is absolutely no comparison between AWD and FWD. Everyone keeps ranting that snow tires will save the day on FWD. It still leaves you with 2 wheels for acceleration instead of 4. There have been so many times that FWD has left me stuck trying to get up hills in snow. Put the snow tires on an AWD instead.

If you are looking at an '06 G35x, you should be able to get one for under $30k. I bought an '06 G35x brand new in NY at the end of August for just under $30k, it had a sticker of $35k and change. The '07 definitely has a nicer interior, but I wouldn't buy a first model year of a new car.

Legend2TL

To answer the first question. The TL is fair in the snow, we've had a mild winter in MD last year and I made it through the few light snow falls we had with no problems with the TL with the stock EL42's. I feel the TL will be much better in the snow with a decent all-season performance tire (I'm switching to Avon A/S M550's very soon) or snow tires. The 6MT requires you to get 17" wheels (at least according to Tirerack so you can't do a -1" on the wheel size). The biggest problem I found with the TL is the low ground clearance which can be a problem in heavy snow covered roads.

In terms of the endless debate on FWD, AWD and snowtires. A FWD car with a excellent set of modern snowtires will be much better from a overall driving point of view compared to a AWD car with all-season tires. Some drivers forget very quickly that AWD does almost nothing in terms of braking or turning forces. Tires are the one of the most important factors when traction is minimized.

However the most important factor of safe and stuck-free driving in the winter is the driver. My older brother has been driving FWD cars with all-season tires for almost 3 decades in MD, he has never been stuck anywhere ever despite have a 25 miles commute to work. All due to his extremely conservative driving techniques in snow and ice. And yes, he has passed by countless SUV, pickups, AWD vehicles stuck in medians and off the road. I may make fun of the countless vehicles who zip by him when he is driving in the snow but he's always made it to his destination without going off the road.

Jesstzn

Not so true ... I just came from a Passat AWD with all seasons .. live in Canada up on top of a hill with 4 180s to get home .. The Passat would out climb the TL hands down in snow deep enough for the belly pan to compact it. The TL never came close in 3" of snow.

As far as stopping and turning the TL with winters will outdo the Passat AWD on all seasons but thats expected.

Unless you have driven a AWD for a winter or 2 its hard to comment on its abilities as far as flat out acceleration goes.

I kicked more ass on the kids and thier 4x4s at stop lights in snow than you would believe .. on all seasons.

Steve443c10

I am at the end of my lease with a G35 coupe RWD, the car is a sled in the snow. I live in Northern NJ and would cry when I saw a snowflake. The car was in the garage all winter. I used my AWD truck. DO NOT GET THE G35 RWD. I looked at the G35 AWD and the Acura TL and just signed a lease for the TL at DCH Montclair Acura. You can't compare the value; the G has more horses, but the TL is a better value. For the money the which is about $100/mth difference in a lease I went with the TL. I had several cars with FWD and they handled really well in the snow, I am hoping the TL is just as good.

SuperStar

To be totally honest, if I knew the TL would be as poor as it is in the snow, I would have bought RWD. (Although now with the Aspec package and Yokohamas, it's a death trap: summer tires)

On the other hand I dont drive it in the snow much because I have a grand cherokee, so I can get away with RWD.

gqchicago

I had my 06 TL up in the UP of Michigan last year on a ski trip...it did just fine on the Michelin tires, but our MDX does better. I did get stuck down a hill at some restaurant we were at...the hill had completely iced up and I was barely able to get out of the parking lot (which was the hill). Had to turn off VSA for the first time ever to make it up the hill. Snow tires would definitely have helped a lot, but in most situations the Michelin's are fine. Usually here in Chicago they clear the snow off pretty quickly anyhow... I've driven in a few rush hour storms where I had way better traction and control than most of the other drivers around me and never once lost control of the car.

That being said, I went to high school in NH (Exeter)...and the snow up that way is just CRAZY....so I would seriously consider putting on snow tires for the winter if I lived in a place like that. We used to get so much snow you'd have to wear your tall LL Bean boots just to walk to class the snow was so deep.... and I would regularly see people cruising around on snow shoes. Even if you got an AWD snow tires would be a good thing to have up there...especially since you commute up to Concord each day. Here I can get away with my all seasons for the most part...up there..no way.

Adobeman

With 4 blizzaks on the TL it is just fine in the snow. Don't believe all the hype about AWD. You will possibly accelerate better and might not get stuck that 1% of the time but overall grip and ground clearance are your biggest friends in the snow. AWD will not increase your tire's grip but may increase ground clearance depending on the car. Also, AWD might get you going but it will not make you "stick" or stop any better since again grip is determined by the tire, not the FWD or AWD part of the equation. Grip is all you have to count on when it comes to stopping so it's a draw. I do believe that an AWD will always beat a FWD version of the same car in the snow but I'll take an FWD with snow tires over an AWD with all seasons any day of the week. Just watch what goes on in the first bad storm and you will see what I mean.

geekybiker

If you live in an area where it snows much, and they arent quick about plowing the roads you really should have snow tires. Its pretty shocking the difference in traction you'll have. This will work for the vast majority of people. Yes AWD with snows will be better yet, but FWD or even RWD on snow tires will out perform a AWD on all seasons.. This is from someone who used to go ice racing on frozen lakes.

avs007

Yes, I think people are clammoring for snow-tires, based on the crappy performance of the stock tires, and then proclaiming all A/S tires to suck...

My wife did get stuck in the snow last year with the TL, as she couldn't ascend the hill.... I had to come out and rescue her, and my car was wearing Contintental ContiExtremeContact A/S tires. I ascended the hill by our house in 8" of snow just fine.

sixsixfour

Im sorry but you just pointed out what I just said earlier.

Snow tires that are meant to dig deep are the ones I would recommend for heavy snow. the ones that are sold to the general public are not the ones I would buy. There are specific snow tires (ive worked with them on an Evo rally car) that you dont see on regular tire catalogs.

coming from experience, let me tell you that in reasonably deep snow, a FWD car with the correct type of snow tires will get through. We had a FWD mirage rally car that was campaigned by a friend of Rhys Millen equipped with deep grove snow tires and it outperformed another Evo VI rally car on gravel tires (gravel tires have similar tread to light snow tires). I had tested it on a couple rallies (we had used that car for two seasons before getting an Evo VII) to check the steering balance and it was pretty good for a FWD car. it accelerated quite well and actually favored the driver because it is easier for you to do a scandanavian flick with a FWD car.

granted it is an extreme comparison, but my point is that you dont go treading through deep snow in a FWD car without the proper gear and then compare it to an AWD car. its just not a fair comparison. you said the snow was deep enough for the oil pan of the TL to compact it. thats silly. why would you drive with that car in the first place is beyond me.

a good snow tire will dig through the snow, and get to the concrete/gravel or asphalt and find grip. the vast majority of store-bought "snow" tires arent as good and offer general protection in most cases for light to moderate snow. heavy snow obviously will negate their effects unless you have awd to help force them on the snow. but too wide of a snow tire (as is the case of most available snow tires) and you just end up compacting the snow into ice and even AWD wont get you going.

crazymjb

Hell, I plan to get chains for my truck.

Again, once you are going the TL does well. However, it is much more difficult to get unstuck with FWD, or to ascend a steep hill, especially one with turns.

Mike

sixsixfour

I agree. The main issue was the OP was asking how the TL handles in snow. with the OEM tires, id say in light snow (no black ice) the TL should be fine. I was up in the mountains one time in a friend's accord and with the all seasons, light snow and rain didnt pose a problem.

now when the snow gets deep or heavy, its only logical not to drive normally especially if you have stock tires.

massr1

+1

Stopping distance won't make a difference with the same set of tires; if anything the AWD car may have the disadvantage here if it's heavier. When it comes to acceleration, again with the same set of winter tires on slippery cold pavement, the FWD car will experience a lot more understeer similar to that on normal pavement. If your into high performance driving in the winter (which for everyone's safety I hope your're not), then you may want to consider an AWD car.

Legend2TL

FWIW, modern snow tires are designed to provide traction on snow and ice. They do this with exotic tread compounds that provide far superior static and dynamic coefficient of friction in ice and snow. The snow tires can dig in but for normal driving, snow tires are not suppose to dig down to the pavement but provide traction on slippery surfaces. Digging down to the pavement is not practical for everyday driving (most of us do not drive like Michelle Mouton in snow/ice).

Snow tires use a combination of soft compounds, embedded fiber in the tread, and very fine sipple design (important for ice traction) in the rubber to increase traction. All season tires do not compare well to modern snow tires (not the snow tires our parents used in the 60's and 70's) in snow/ice conditions. There has been a tremendous amount of advance in snow tire design in the last decade, most of it has been about the rubber design not necessarily the tread design. The more modern snow tires (Blizzaks, Graspic,...) tread pattern is mild compared to a true off-roading tire but they provide superior traction on a layer of snow and/or ice.

Early this year Car & Driver magazine did a interesting experiment. Bridgestone invited them to test and compare a premium all-season tire to a summer tire and a snow tire (all the tires were premium Bridestones) in hot wet/dry conditions and cold ice/snow conditions. The results were about what you would expect, the all-season tire's performance was much closer in performance to the summer tire (skidpad, braking distance,...) than the snow tire. All-seasons are a compromise and they are more designed for higher temperatures for wet/dry conditions not cold and slick.

The bottom line is pretty simple, if you live in an area where there is significant snowfall, it's best to invest in a set of snowtires over all-season. I live in MD so we have had 30" in two days but on average we have not had more than a 12" total for a season (have to check that on weather.com)

Mike 06 TL

Has anyone found a good setup for a 6MT TL lately? Tire Rack has only one option for wheels (17" ASA JH3) and they are SOLD OUT until mid January!

I'm trying to find a cheap set of stockers, pick up some winter tires from TR and have them installed. So much more of a PITA than simply being able to order them complete

pettydw

I have the 6MT and bought a cheap set of OEM wheels off eBay and mounted Dunlop M3 Wintersports . The wheels had some scratches, but silver touch-up paint and winter grime makes them invisible.

The winter tires make the 6MT virually unstoppable on crappy New England winter roads (I have a 25 mile ride to work). No 4WD's have out accelerated me and I was able to get out of an unplowed work parking lot with 16 inches of dense snow. Also, the Dunlops are excellent in the wet and not terrible in the dry.

I would much rather mount snow tires 3 months a year than pay the weight/maintenance/fuel economy penalty of 4WD all year. A friend of a friend (my friend has a 6MT also) bought a 2005 G35 AWD and was complaining about the 22MPG highway mileage he was getting. Also, I saw more than one Audi Quattro in the ditch last winter.

Fulani has a TL

iTrader: (1)

AWWW HELLL lets just ride some horses to travel.

Sorry, but the posts on here just seem to be going back and forth. In all honesty Just wait till the first snow fall and then you will know how the TL reacts.

I am going from a 4 wheel drive SUV to a Front wheel drive car (something I have never driven in snow). Should be an interesting winter for me. But can't be worse than a Rear Wheel Drive Truck (my first pride and joy)

chris2k5

Hey, I just wanted to say a BIG Thanks to everyone who posted VERY VERY useful information! I am so delighted that you guys have enough time to post and help out.

My wife and I decided and we placed a custom order for a G35x Black on Black. I would've loved the TL's exterior but, would rather be safe than sorry.

P.S. After placing an order on the G35x, I just bought my wife a new LS460L! My first very very expensive car. Technology is worth it in the thing. She barely drives in the winter so the RWD on the Lex shouldn't be a biggy.

kenny5

Assuming you are telling us the truth, at the tender age of 18, you are already married with a wife and can afford a new LS 460 L and G35x (at the same time), but you seem not to know much about the TL, a very popular (yet not very expensive) car that many of us drive. This is amazing!!

ndabunka

This guy is OBVIOUSLY a "troll" as he states he just bought a Lex 460L yet doiesn't realize that the Lex is a AWD vehicle. too fawny!

SuperStar

Rocket science!