I would wait until 105K or 7 years whichever comes first. I have the factory shop manual and I have to look up in the maintenace table what the "extreme driving conditions" are for a timing belt.

My guess is high heat and lots of city driving (alot of engine running at stop lights and in stop/go traffic), if you lived in Phoenix and only ever drove in the city maybe I could believe 75K miles. The timing belt covers have pretty decent rubber seals and the crankshaft pulley and lower timing belt cover do a excellent job keeping dirt/dust out of the belt so I can't believe a dusty environment would cause any additional wear.

One thing you can do yourself fairly easily is do a visual inspection of the timing belt by removing the upper front timing belt cover. If you're concerned you can remove the cover and turn the crankshaft pulley bolt and look at the entire belt.

All of the timing belts (~22) I've replaced looked great. No cracking of the rubber, fraying, or the teeth worn down (assymetrically). But as most of know this is one thing you do not want to go beyond the recommened maintenance interval but at the same time timing belts (on Honda/Acura's at least) are extremely durable things. Meaning you can abuse your transmission and engine by overreving, racing, speedshifting, etc. but all of that has no effect on a timing belt.

So in the end I'd save your $1.1K and wait until the 105K or 7 years.

 

Anyone care to comment about why 7 years is the magic number with a timing belt on a low mileage engine? If the car is garaged, not exposed to the elements and heat will the belt fail after 7 years? I've also got an old DelSol....and although I had the belt replaced after 100K miles....there was no sign or wear or rot on the belt even after 14 years. I don't want to spend $1000+ on my Acura (04TL with 14K miles) if I don't have to. Thanks.

 

My dealer has a sign posted with most common services. The timing belt service for the TL is $1050, and that includes water pump and probably some other things, like the serpentine belt which would be off the car to reach the timing belt.

 

Good question, here is my guess.

I think it's just a number that Acura/Honda came up with, the reason deals with the materials that make up the timing belt. here are some factors tha come with age for the timing belt that say do not affect a metal timing chain.

1) When installed there is always tension forces on the belt with the tensioner. So the synthetic fibers that make up the core strength of the belt are always under some stress (although not much).

2) Over time the oils in the rubber will weep out and the rubber will dry and crack. The rubber is the binder for the fibers in the belt so if any delamination occurs that reduces the strength of the belt.

Now back to the question at hand, do you really have to replace the belt at 7 years if the mileage is low. My Dad's 2000 Accord SE has only 20K miles and that limit came up last year, I looked at the belt and it looked OK physically so I decided to put it off for some time.

Personally the only belts that I've heard or seen break were over the mileage limit. This was esspecially true for the 1G Integra's, I know two colleagues and friends that had them break in mileages between 60K-80K (the mileage replacement was 60K). My old boss had a Audi 5000 diesel that I think went over 150K on a timing belt before it broke causing total engine destruction (cam broke in two!).
Old Fiat's used to have 30K timing belts, a friend should know since he broke the timing belt several times but no damage since the motor was non-interference motor.

I've never heard of anyone having a timing belt break on any vehicle that was under mileage but over on age. So I'm far less inclined to replace a over-age/under-mileage timing belt than over-mileage/under-age. The oldest undermileage timing belt I know was my friend's Ferrari 328GTS, the belt was 19 years old with only 30K miles, and yes the belt looked virtually new. He decided it was time and since that motor is very expensive it was good insurance. But for my Dad's Accord, we decided to wait a few more years before replacing but definitely not 19.

Oddly enough all the older Honda/Acura shop manuals (I have 5 from the 80's) do not list any mileage or time limit for the timing belt which was odd. Most dealerships would tell the customers about it but some customer would ignore it since it wasn't in the owners manual.

FWIW, timing belts are at the top of the list for owners of Honda/Acura's for annoying maintenance cost. So Honda/Acura have slowly started moving to timing chains (several years ago on the 4 cylinder motors) that are engine lifetime items (like cranks, valve, rods,...).

 

i usually just order all the OEM parts from Tim at Hondacuraworld... i think the water pump, timing belt and all access belts ran just over $200??? then my independent mechanic charges me $250 for labor... done in a day...

 

Legend2TL, thanks for the information..good stuff!

 

wow. there is no way i will be doing this myself after reading the threads on waterpump DIY 's.. lol

 

As engineers, we have to do life cycle calcs on parts all the time. There is actually quite a bit that goes into life estimate for parts. After you do your calcs, you have to apply a factor of safety based on what will happen if it fails. An example is using a bigger bolt when a smaller one will do. But that bigger bolt also cost more money, so it becomes an economic problem also. Then you throw in the bell curve on the part failure due to manufacturing, etc. The timing belt recommendation is based on a factor of safety, taking into account many different types of environments, from cold winters in Michigan, to endless heat cycles in Arizona.

So Acura does not and can not expect the belt to break at exactly a specified mileage and time. The timing belt vendor has endless tests and bell curves and tells Acura, the majority of these belts will break around 10 yrs or 140000 miles. Acura adds a factor of safety of 1.4 or whatever due to the damage a broken one will do to the engine and you now have your maintanance schedule. But ultimately if you follow the change interval, the chances of one breaking on you will be very slim.

 

I'd recommend replacing the tensioner. I know someone who is an Acura tech, and he told me that one in three (maybe four) that he sees leak some amount of oil. To me, this sounds like the part isn't terribly reliable. For the sake of my engine, I'd spend the extra $100 and replace it at every belt change.

 

I have successfully used the engine to loosen this nut. Using a breaker bar and proper socket I wedged them in place and "bumped" the starter-the nut was immediately loosened. This is probably not in any svc/rpr manuals but I'm sure the DIY ers have heard and maybe even used it.

 

Wow, 3GTL still use a belt? WTF? Why no chain? Chain can last 2x as long.

 

And your engine will sound noisy after 100k. Belt engines are still quieter.

 

Hmm. I was really working up a sweat reading this thread.... dreading the inevitable as I intend to keep my TL for a long time.

But, I am averaging 3k/year. At that rate, it will be 2039 before I need to have this done. I might consider doing it myself as I do all the work on my TL. Today.

But, adding 31 years to my current age and I don't think I will be breaking any 800 ft lb bolts loose.

I'll be doing good if I can get my upper and lower dentures out.

 

Good question, legacy mostly. Honda has exclusively used timing belts on all their cars (Honda 600 is the exception) until the S2000, then they introduced the new generation of 4 cylinder motors (Accord and Civic both) to timing chains. The timing chains on the 4 cylinders are engine "lifetime" items, meaning they are like pistons and cranks meant to last the life of the engine meaning no replacement. Basically Honda marketing and engineering finally came to the conclusion the benefits of the chain over the belt.

The reason for a timing belt over a chain is lower cost, lower weight (reduced rotational inertia), higher power (lower mass and less friction), and lower friction (resulting in extremely slightly better mileage). However the cost of the maintenance replacement of the belts have always annoyed owners. Even with 105K/7year belts people I know with J-series motors complain about that enivable cost.

And much more than low-cost Japanese motors used them, the Porsche 928/944 even the Renault Turbo Formula-1 racing V6 motors (EF15 http://www.flickr.com/photos/1013121...n/photostream/ ). But now-a-days I see more and more formally timing belt engine manufacturers going to chains for no-maintenance reasons.


So the slight gains in cost/power and losses in cost/mass still don't close to the annoying cost of replacement. So I suspect the next generation V6 from Honda/Acura will have a chain.

And yes after ~22 timing belt changes, I'm also tired of replacing them.

 

And yes after ~22 timing belt changes I'm also tired of replacing them.

Must proof-read, must proof-read, must...

 

I thought I'd add to this thread since I found it while looking to see what others were paying for this.

I'm getting mine replaced for around $875 (timing belt, water pump, etc) at the dealer. Of course now they're saying they need another $100+ to replace a tensioner.

 

That price seems to be in the range for TL's from what others have been quoted.

The tensioner is maybe replacement, most will last the vast life of a Honda/Acura without replacement. On the timing belt tensioner, look very carefully at the oil seal at the pin end of the tensioner. If you see any weeping of the damping oil replace it. Honda/Acura had problems with the external vendor of this component for the early J30/32/35 motors. Also inspect the idler pulley, there are two sealed bearings in there and the motion and rotation should have no decernable play.

The serpentine belt tensioner is harder to inspect. It's a insurance item, the springs tend to stay strong forever, the bearings for the idler pulley are also sealed and should be checked for play and smooth rotation.

 

Although the 3G TL is a difficult timing belt to change, it hardly compares to this (Renault v6 twin turbo F1 engine from the mid-80's).

http://www.flickr.com/photos/10131211@N03/827687581/sizes/l/

 

A friend of mine is a master technician at an Acura dealership, and he said that 1 out of 3 Honda V6 tensioners he inspects are leaking to some degree.

 

I wouldnt care if tensioner is leaking at belt time- I wont expect anything to last ANOTHER 100,000 miles, and I am not paying labor twice when I can replace things all at once!!!
and only once! Plus the real danger: a tensioner failure down the road will result in broken timing belt- or its same results as broken-
tensioner fails= belt now flopping, not connected to parts that must remain in perfect synch- valves remain open- pistons hit exhaust valves- repair cost $2500, if your lucky

Adjust the valves while they have it all apart too- thats part of the 105 service but may be omitted from price quotes, as book says- as needed- well guess what- its needed!

Penny wise and pound foolish is the old saying

 

FWIW, from what I know the dynamic tensioners on the J-motors are a spring and dampener arrangement. The internal construction is a extremely powerful spring and a sort of mini-shock absorber with oil as the damper fluid contained within the cylinder. If the dampening oil leaks out the belt is still under tension BUT no dampening.

What does that mean, well my guess is the belt will have a small amount of whipping. Will it cause the belt to break or slip immediately, from what I understand of the operation no. But it will deposit several ounces of shock fluid on the timing belt area, which like motor oils is not good for the life of the belt. Also the whipping of the belt is also not good. And if it leaks oil you will not know unless you visibly inspect the belt (maybe removing the upper timing belt cover would do it)

It's a insurance issue with the J motors, I've heard and seen a couple of these go bad. Rumor from what I heard is Honda/Acura changed vendors for the assembly early this decade, but I do not know that for sure. It's a $85 part, so it's not a huge amount.

There are many wear and tear parts on the Honda/Acura's which surprisingly last the extreme life of the vehicle. One would thing Honda/Acura could make a better 4AT/5AT transmission (the Los Angeles Times did a EXCELLENT writeup on the problems and causes of those gearboxs failures). But on Honda's/Acura's I've never replaced any engine rotational seal (crank/cam) ever, that includes 2 motors that made it over 300K miles. Same goes for wheel bearing, never replaced them or ever seen any go bad. They typically use NTT for their sealed wheel bearings and they must have incredile process and quality control. I used to have to replaced CV Joint boots every 60-90K miles on Honda's. My wife's Pilot is approaching 118K miles and both front boots are OK.

So I treat the tensioner as a insurance item since it's a pain to get to, it's cost is not too high. But if it passes a few full compression and release cycles (I vaguely remember that being some sort of criteria for tsting them somewhere I read for Honda's and Toyota's). I didn't replace mine but I can understand why others would.

Many parts on Honda/Acura's engines from the crank, rods, bearings, valve springs, valve seals, cams, injectors, ECU.... will make it well past 250K miles without any issues. If only they could work that on their 4AT/5AT's

 

I'll probably wait til 80K on mine.

 

Hmmm...be careful here...when I bump my 07's starter , the engine starts and keeps running....What's the term for our starter systems; auto start?

It's not like my old POS 94 F-150 where you have to keep the key turned in the start position for the engine to turn over.

Word to the wise...make sure you use a very high quality socket...the cheap ones will most likely split down the sides

 

With the following replacements; timing belt, timing tensioner, water pump, coolant change, accessory belt, spark plugs. dealer quoted $1400.

 

Give SONS Acura on Tara Blvd a call. They sent me an email for a timing belt replacement for $499.99. That includes a water pump 'check', not replacement.

They have dropped the price from $1300.00 in January to $750.00 in March to $499.00 the other day. You may need to coupon, which I have.

 

I am just going to replace the crank pulley. Going to go with the UR light weight one. Is the tool you posted on the one I need for the job? Its an 2006 TL MT.
Thanks!

PS: What is the spec. for the crank pulley torque ?

 

Yes, that is the tool needed to remove the crankshaft pully bolt.
Be prepared for a very tight bolt, I used a 5' breaker bar to get it loose.
That tool covers all Honda/Acura's from the mid-90's to current.

 

The spec for the crank pulley bolt is 181 ftlb

 

i just went to pohanka acura and they quoted me 1600 for parts and labor (ouch ) including timing belt, waterpump, sparks etc...i asked how much will labor if i buy all the parts myself and he said about 900 bucks.

 

so the dealer will let you bring them the parts? I've never heard of that.
Will they still warranty the service?

 

I had a 04 TL with 105000 and i had fuel rail cleaner, transmission flush, drive and timing belt replaced, waterpump (including all new coolant flushed) all new front crank etc seals and paid 788 at the dealership~!

 

Which dealership?

 

I took the GM fluid to the dealer for my my last manual trans fluid change.
They didn't flinch at all, just charged me for labor.

 

i dont agree with that ... my 03 nissan altima 3.5 has a timing chain, and honestly the engine duznt sound any louder then my TL engine and it has about 109k on it.

 

Was a Honda Dealership in Morrow, GA. Awesome customer service and i think i forgot to add free car rental

 

Also extensions! Here's the bolt for a J35 from a 2003 Honda Pilot next to a 3" 1/2" extensions. Also broke a 12 point 19mm Craftsman socket

 

I Just called today and got an estimate of $1,250 BUCKS!!! from my local acura dealer, Holy Crap.

 

Don't fall for this marketing bait and switch. How many water pumps do you think that they "check" and don't recommend a replacement?

This kind of crap is why I avoid dealer service departments whenever possible.

 

I have had three Acuras over the years. Presently own a TL. Acura usually recommends changing the timing belt at 6 years or 105,000 miles. Here in California, I just had the timing belt done on my 3.2TL at 98,000 mi. I did not want to wait the extra 7K miles before changing it. I like to play it safe with these things.
I highly affirm having Acura do the work. They cover all the bases, use OEM parts & fluids and stand behind their work. Dealership service rates may appear high, but it is cheap insurance against related mechanical problems in the long run and provides some peace of mind knowing that Acura trained mechanics did this mechanically sensitive work.
If it's any help, here is the breakdown for the work I had done:
I paid $1800.00, but I asked them to take care of a couple of other things as well. At 100K miles it is a good idea to get it all done.
-new timing belt
-new timing belt tensioner
-new water pump
-flushed the cooling system and pressure tested system
-new thermostat and radiator cap (which were not working right)
-changed the spark plugs
-set the valves
-new belts on P.S. pump, Alternator & AC compressor
-changed the automatic trans fluid
-changed the differential fluid
-changed the oil&filter
-topped off other fluids
-checked all other systems on the car

 

differential fluid????