BLACKURA_NY

iTrader: (6)

very true statement

alot of things play into factor though-- driver, skills, tires, temperature etc...

08 TL-S 5AT is heavier then 04-06MT...

if you put them both at a drag strip, completely stock, same tires... with a great skiller driver, expect about a 1/4 mile of 13.9 for 6MT, and 14.1 for 5AT

you gotta understand, the lower gear ratio of the 6MT will always give a skilled driver a better 0-60ft. of at least 1/3 secord


fyi-- adding Innovative engine mounts to your car, will GREATLY help your 0-60ft, decrease torque steer and less engine movement during shifting

best believe, they will make your car shake like crazy. best $300~ mod i ever did

anx1300c

iTrader: (2)

This is about right. Base 5AT will trap 93-95 mph, Type-S 5AT 96-97mph, Base 6MT 98-99mph, and Type-S 6MT 99-100. I know you guys with the Type-S 5AT are all bummed, but you have to remember your car weighs 3670 @ 235 whp and has a power robbing tranny while the Base 6MT is 3482 @ 220-225 whp. At 250 whp the S 6MT is quicker than the base, but it's still 80 lbs heavier, so it's only a tenth or two and a mph or two quicker.

The Type-S is nice and all, and it certainly handles better, but it doesn't dominate the base model in a straight line like the M-Cars dominate base BMW's.

MofroS

Well said. I am not bummed. I bought a luxury car. Just glad to have a package where it does not feel like a flaccid luxury car. I know several daily drivers that could whip me. I feel fine where I sit.

Whether it could out sprint this or that never crossed my mind when I was buying it, nor does it now.

Though I do want to supercharge this bish so I can feel that mad max pull....

ParaSurfer1979

Who is basing the 04-06 6spd with auto type s? My post was basing both 6 speeds.

07tl-s6spd

iTrader: (1)

this is what it should say....id let my girl drive my integra but not the tl

07tl-s6spd

iTrader: (1)

in that case 6mt 3.5>6mt 3.2...and the hp difference has been mentioned several times

justnspace

iTrader: (1)

That changes things. I, too thought you were speaking about the auto type-s.



















But i'm still happy that I'm on par with an auto TL-s.

Ch33sE1

This is the exact reason I got a 5AT instead of the 6MT. I drive a bus 9 hours a day sitting in traffic, and I'll be damned to get into my car after that and have to change gears on the way home. This car is, dare I say, is not more luxury than sport. If I wanted a sports car, I woulda bought a twin turbo supra with RWD for the same price as I bought this TLS and I almost did. But I came to my senses on spending $30g's on a 15 year old car vs a 2 year old car with a lot more toys in it.

07tl-s6spd

iTrader: (1)

justnspace...you should be happy....i didnt even know when broken down that the 6mt 3.2 was even close to matching the3.5 type s 5at

Derk's K24

I think everybody did which is why this thread caught so much fire LOL
That would be the obvious comparison but it wasn't stated specifically anywhere.

Elegant TYPE S

iTrader: (2)

This is spot on. Type S is definitely quickers no question about it.

This forum might however make it seem though that the power/speed difference is similar to a 5 series vs M5 and that is definitely NOT the case.

Souljah

Fooled me too...
Thought 6MT vs 5AT

rockstar143

iTrader: (6)

LSD?!?!
I test drove and almost pulled the trigger on a carbon bronze 6MT last year...had a new clutch and was not well taken care of and would have added 15K to my balance on my 04 6MT...wasn't worth it in the end, my impression of the test drive...didn't blow my socks off....

...now the 2011 GT 5.0 Mustang with 3.73 gears...that was a different story...

J Dubya

From the brochure's

2005
w/Navi: 6mt = 3486 lbs & auto = 3578 lbs

w/o Navi: 6mt = 3472 lbs & auto = 3570 lbs

2008
w/Navi: 3636 lns & w/o Navi: 3623 lbs

TL-S: auto = 3674 & 6mt = 3559


I went from a 2005 AM non-navi 6mt to a 2007 ASM TL-S auto and I didn't really feel a difference in which was faster. The TL-S has a much different feel in the steering, it feels waaay tighter & not as lazy as the 2005. The TL-S also rides stiffer than the 2005.

It's weird, it's the same car, but it's not the same. It drives completely different. Much more than I anticipated.

SouthernBoy

Thank you, I stand corrected.

SouthernBoy

No. It's 8.8 feet for a 1/10th of a second at 60 MPH, which is a little over half of a car length.

SouthernBoy

I seriously doubt a box stock 04-06 manual TL is going to see the 13's in a quarter mile. Not saying it's impossible, but highly unlikely. One of the real limiting factors is the poor traction of FWD cars in general and in particular with the TL on its stock rubber. With the VSA off, first gear is likely to be mostly wheel spin on a hard launch... and even a drive-off-then-nail-it launch.

Best magazine reported time I've seen for the early 3G manual TL was in the May 2004 Car and Driver edition. They manage a 14.3 at 99 MPH. For the TL-S manual, once again Car and Driver managed a 14.1 at 101 MPH.

These are both very good times for a stock FWD V6 rather heavy car. Nothing to sneeze at.

Ruby

I'm perfectly happy with my automatic..one of the biggest reasons I got the Type-S was because IMO its way sexier than the regular TL and I wanted to be different than the other masses of 3G TL's out there..sure if I was gonna race a 6MT TL with a perfect driver he might beat me by a car length but if he slips up on one shift (and we all know that infamous honda/acura 3rd gear pop out/grind) I will pull. But 6MT TL's are very few and far between so I like my chances. Besides I could've had a 6MT type-s but decided against it..used to have a 5MT RSX and while it was fun, it was time for an auto.

MofroS

Thanks for the calculations. Still though, that's not much. I must say "one Mississippi" way too fast

rockstar143

iTrader: (6)

They are equally as fast...if you are with a car length or two of each other, in the grand scheme of things and with all the variables...you get what I'm saying.

I thought I was ready for automatic once...lasted me 5 weeks before trading in. I just love driving MT too much...

CarbonBronzeRocketTypeS

Then you sir are a fool! Hahah J/K

I used to have a "MANUAL" 630rwhp 300zx Twin Turbo just about 3 years ago it was the most fun I've had for a long time but the car was a money pit and every month or so I wound up spending anywhere from 300-1000 for repairs and/or upgrades. No more for me. Now I'm going all modest and affordable luxury with RELIABILITY to boot, but could not cure myself from hitting the throttle once in a while hence my decision on purchasing an auto Type S. I just love the look of the quad tip exhaust and find the stockers sexy as hell on Carbon Bronze Skin. Many of my 300zx buddies called me crazy and gave me grief about driving a "Honda" thats FWD but at the end of the day as we grow older we realize life's not all about expensive thrills and sometimes you just want to hop on the freeway lean back, put your music on blast and just cruise without making all that ruckus. Honda's reliability is unmatched with Toyota being right there so this was an easy decision to make when you transition into a new type of mindset.

Ch33sE1

It's funny you mentioned the age factor because as my friends and I grow older, there isn't a single time when we talk about cars that someone with MT says, "I wish I had an auto sometimes, sitting in traffic with stick sucks."

Shoot2Thrill

I'll race myself on each and get back to you guys - OK?

ParaSurfer1979

If you READ my original post, I stated the TL had Ingen intake. It seems to me an intake would drop .1-.2 so stock would be about the same which is shocking. whats the weight diff in 04-06 6spd vs. Type S 6spd?

ParaSurfer1979

Car and driver ran 1/4 at 14.4@99mph in 04 6spd and the same mag did it in 14.3 in type S.

04 Stats...
http://www.caranddriver.com/var/ezfl...a2c489e3c6.pdf

Type S...
http://www.roadandtrack.com/content/...S-350_data.pdf

Interesting that all that hp yielded .1 gain.

This explains why I said if you guys cant afford the Type S then you aren't loosing out on much if you purchase an 04-06 minus some added features.

SouthernBoy

The May '04 issue of Car and Driver reported a 14.3 quarter mile. Most likely different driver and/or weather/track conditions.

rockstar143

iTrader: (6)

this supports what I felt having driven both.

Good stuff...
I NEVER miss an automatic car...even when I was driving an hour 15 each way to work in traffic, I never thought about having an automatic. It's the sitting in traffic that irks me, not the shifting. At least that gives me something to do to keep my ADD at bay.

ParaSurfer1979

yea im sure thats it...lol. My hypothesis is the Type S is heavier.

I hate cars

Here we go again. Type-S owners get butt hurt so easily.

6mt to 6mt and 5at to 5at the S is quicker and always will be.

A well driven 6mt base will always be quicker than a 5at Type S. They're close enough that if you put an average driver in the 6mt, he could definitely lose the race but the trap speeds of the 6mt base seem to be a solid 2mph higher on average. That shows the weight difference and the fact that slighly more power is making it to the wheels.... or slightly more average power due to the superior gearing of the 6mt.

If you put the fastest version against the slowest version- Type-S 6mt vs the base 5at you're talking a 5mph difference in the 1/4. It's significant but it's nothing to get all hyped up about. When I was thinking about trading mine in for a type S I test drove both the manual and 5at along with a manual base. I had to really concentrate to feel any difference between the cars with the same trans. The 6mt to 5at was a much larger difference.

If I knew I would end up tracking the car I probably would've started with a TL-S 6mt if they had them in '06. But if I were going to track the car and only had the option of the 5at Type-S or the 6mt base, I would choose the base easily.

In closing, it's really simple yet people make it out to be so difficult. You have power, weight, gearing, and to a lesser degree an LSD. The power to the wheels is about the same but with the superior gearing and less weight it's no wonder the base 6mt is slightly quicker.


Acura never should have left it so close. IMO an "S" in the name should be at least half a second quicker than the quickest version of the base model. Then we wouldn't have to have these arguments.

07tl-s6spd

iTrader: (1)

..your welcome...we all make mistakes

ParaSurfer1979

Not arguing just posted this question to sho to those who cant afford a Type S that the 04-06 (there was no base then so you can't call it that) was a great alternative to the newer car if you can live w/o the added mp3/wma playback & reverse camera . The 04-06 is almost as quick. Heres a vid of 3 runs in 05 6speed. Fastest was 14.3.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LX4GstoWatk

04 w/ just J-pip/intake
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FRnxF...eature=related

These cars are over all just as close with mods too in the quarter.

SAs far as gearing, i didnt thing they changed gearing from the CL-S but th-ey very well could have between 04-06 6spd and type s 6spd.

anx1300c

iTrader: (2)

An intake is only good for 5whp if that, so it's only going to drop half a tenth at best, not one or two tenths. Type-S 09 is just a REALLY good driver. There are vids on here of him still close to stock, beating an '05-'10 Mustang GT 5MT and even beating the Stang to the 60' marker.

6MT to 6MT, the difference is ~75-80 lbs, so that eats up 8 of the extra 25-30 whp right there, making the S roughly 2/10 and 2 mph quicker. Given equally skilled drivers, a skinny driver in the base with 1/8 tank of gas against the fat dude in the Type-S who just filled up his tank and bought a case of twinkies....pure driver's race.

+1

ParaSurfer1979

Now someone has a great explaination. I miss driving manuals but since I have to drive one, its gonna have decent power. Again thanks alot. Oh and it's actually 26hp different from the j32. Happy Holidays bro.

Shoot2Thrill

I find the word afford offensive and a point that is obvious which did not need boiled down absurd factoids to alienate anyone based on the particular car they DECIDED to own.

anx1300c

iTrader: (2)

Actually, going by the crank ratings of 258 and 286, it's 28, but I think the TL-S may be a bit underrated, due to the fact Temple of Vtec dynoed a base 6MT at 222whp and a Type-S 6MT at 252 whp on the same dyno, so that's where I get my 30 whp difference. Of course different weather conditions could be to blame.

My theory that the S is a bit underrated also seems to be supported by the fact that a fully bolted 6MT base will generally dyno (Dynojet) low 260's whp versus low 290's whp for a fully bolted 6MT Type-S, so a 30 whp advantage seems to remain constant with mods.

ParaSurfer1979

What else would you call it? If consumer cannot afford a certain trim level, the go down to the next trim or a different car alltogether. I really dont follow you logic.

ParaSurfer1979

Thank you...

I hate cars

It's not offensive to me but it gets annoying when some owners think people buy base models because they can't afford a TL-S. I could have afforded much more than a TL-S when I was car shopping.

Ruby

I can see how some people might be offended by using the word "afford" but if you think about it, the difference in price between and 04 6MT and an 07 Type-S 6MT is about 9-10 grand! So you can see his point here. Not everyone can "afford" that extra dough so why not grab the 6MT for 11 or 12 grand and just be a little bit slower?

I hate cars

Are you saying there was that much of a price difference when new or used? I got ripped off but let's just say I paid a "Type-S" price for my base.