Road Rage

I was at the 'Zone today, looking for more NOS German Castrol Syntec 0w30, and was scoping out the latest Mobil 1 "bottle", and it hit me.

We have had a lot of posts where the question of whether synthetic oil is "worth it" has been discussed. I and others have pointed out that there have been far more advances in oil engineering in mineral-based oils (conventional oils) than in synthetic oils. The great bulk of this has been in creating Group III base stocks, through various measures which are related:

• Hydrowaxing
• hydrocracking
• hydro- isomerization
• severe hydrocracking

Whatever process or name this "super refining" of conventional oil takes, the point is that the result is base stocks that are so much freer of impurities, wax crystals, asphalts, etc. than previous mineral oils that they have many of the properties and performance of "true" synthetics such as GIV and GV base stocks.

Then, consider that the additive packages are similar between the two. Additives are usually developed by specialist companies such as Lubrizol, and are available to all. Synoils almost always are formulated with higher levels of the additives that extend the service life. Plus, synoil base stocks are almost always long-lived, as they are completely free of waxes, sulfurs, multimolecularity, etc. and resist oxidation more effectively.

So in the last 20 years, mineral oils have ramped up, and synoils have made incremental progress. This is supported by empriric and anecdotal evidence that engines run with today's "conventional" oils can last a long time under conditions that are extreme. The UOA's of the best minoils show outstanding anti-wear, anti-friction, viscosity stability, and freedom from oxidation - they are often as good or better than the synoils with which they compete.

This explains why some of us oil freaks (Michael Wan and others) suggest that given the large price difference between syn and min, vs. the much smaller difference in performance, it makes the case for synoil investment much less clear than it was even 5 years ago.

...in all but one area: longevity.
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Synoil can no longer be hawked as being a gazillion times better than the "crude" (pun intended) oils of yesteryear. The buying public is not dumb, and one does not need to be a tribologist or mech engineer to see that today's minoils "have game".

So what are they targeting - that's it!!! The service life - the oil change interval (OCI) - the "extended performance".

That is where the Mobil 1 marketing hit me. Until or unless the Mobil's or Red Line's of the world can develop a new superlube, they will need to keep that 3x-4x price differential justified by hawking the OCI angle.

Note that Mobil's new formulation is not called "Wear Be Gone" or "Dances with Ice Packs" or "Pays off at the Gas Pump" or "Clean Machine" - it is called "Extended Performance".

Yes, they still mention performance as being freedom from oxidation, freedom from (certain) deposits, freedom from excessive wear under adverse conditions, etc. But the focus of their ads is what? Right! That M1 will perform all its magic for 15,000 miles - guaranteed. [In fact, Mobil is playing up the mileage thing in all its oil advertising: 5k (Ford's blanket OCI), 7500 (where Acura, Honda, and most of the GM reside), and 15k M1 (for M-B, BMW, and other extended length OCI recs)].

They are, fairly as I see it, playing up the one performance advantage where they have a long leg up, and always will*, on the minoil competition: long service life. So people with expensive cars that use oil monitoring computer algorithms and feedback from sensors to recommend OCI's can have peace of mind knowing that their choice of oil will deliver against those recommendations. Those AMG E55's do not grow on trees, bubba.

And of course, if people who still follow the dinosaur "every 3,000 miles" OCI want to dump a lot of $, they can still be attracted by their "read" of what Extended Performance Mobil 1 may deliver. (Not sure what that might be over a top-tier minoil, but that's their business).
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*Some oil additives, like Lube Control, claim to allow safe extension of OCI's for minoil to 10k miles. Still looking at the data on that one, but it will never be widely adopted, or marketed.

JimGoFast

good post.

I use synthetic in my race bike but id never use it in a daily rider.

SodaLuvr

Rage, you've got the GC disease haven't you!

Are you looking for the Green M04 batch or the Gold M05+ batches?

BTW, 10K with LC is perfectly possible...in fact it did VERY well in this case even with dirt ingestion with plenty of reserve TBN remaining:

Havoline 10w-30 dino (SL), Wix 51516 Oil Filter and FRAM yes FRAM air filter.
LC used at 5 oz initial load, 1oz every 1000 for total of 14 ounces.

This run was right after an Auto-RX clean/rinse phase

Molabrew 3:1 ratio of FP60 and Neutra was used at 1oz/5gal at about 80% of the fill-ups.
Plug Wires and Air Filter were changed 8K into the drain, plugs were changed 700 mi before end up interval because one cracked.

10,298 miles on oil, 83,116 on unit, sampled on 5/15/05
BK Labs kit #46 with Dyson Analysis interpretation.

I’ll explain this report for those who aren’t familiar

Al 3
Cr 1
Fe 9
Cu 1
Pb 11—scored bearing, previous reports showed high Pb but it is dropping
Sn 2—dropping, indicating that bearing wear is dropping
Mo 67
Ni 1—wear at the valves, indicating that there’s dirt ingestion
K 0
B 29
Si 21—dirt ingestion, FRAM air filter was fine, indicating that its leaking from elsewhere
Na 8—from dirt ingestion, road salt
Ca 1752
Mg 32
P 684
Zn 890
Ba 0

Sus Vis @100C, 60.3—solid 30wt
Flashpoint is 390F—slightly depleted from long interval, but excellent
Fuel, Glycol, and Water are all 0
Insolubles is 0.3%--excellent for a long service interval
TBN, ASTM D-4739 is 0.9—change indicator, any TBN >1.0 on Blackstone scale indicates plenty margin of error.

MW

SodaLuvr

Why?

MW

jjpark

Is the longevity in oil life mirrored in the oil filter as well?

SodaLuvr

jjpark,
If the insolubles start rising due to a clogged oil filter, then yes.

Whether you believe it or not, oil filter doesn't seem to have that much of an effect on oil life, in many cases. As long as it doesn't interfere with flow and does not fail, it doesn't seem to matter.

MW

jjpark

Realistically though, would, for example, a Mobil 1 filter last 15,000 miles in a the BMW example above?

SodaLuvr

Sure.

But then again, it is also dependent on whether this is your first run of syn on a high mileage engine w/o prior cleanup, if thats the case, then no.

MW

Road Rage

I replace filters at 6 months, or half the intended OCI. A fractured filter media is very bad. The new filters with synthetic glass media are much better.

I cut open every filter, and have seen a fair share of fractures, esp in high compression engines with thicker oil. Even Amsoil suggests a 6 month elapsed time on the expensive, "superior" filters it sells.

Might not hurt to dissect a few filters at the intended OCI, and look for nay signs of filter failure (media, case, gasket).

SodaLuvr

FYI: Rage, Amsoil recently extended the service interval for its filters when using the AME 15w-40 ONLY in diesel engines to 1-yr/25,000 miles.

Not quite on subject though I'd like you to know that. With the reformulation of the AME 15w-40 product, I guess they discovered that the oil could handle it.

MW