Super charger
.:KCCO:.
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 2,174
Likes: 4
From: Irvine
Originally Posted by trebien
This is a 3.2 liter engine putting out 270 HP stock... there is NOT a lot of room for improvement. It's not like there's a lot of power just waiting to be found due to a poorly designed intake or a highly restrictive exhaust. It's putting out ~ 84 HP per liter in it's stock form. Without nitrous or forced induction, there's not a lot that bolt-on mods will get you with this car. If you wanted more power or more ability to modify, just about any other car would have been a better choice. Plus, it's FWD, so increased power will not do any favors for the handling. And you have to wonder how well the FWD layout and tranny will handle the power of forced induction if you decide to go that route...
This car is working to it's maximum potential from the factory. That's a good thing for most people, but a bad thing if you want to mod.
And forget gutting or removing the cats... spew all that crap into the air just to get another 5 HP or so... gimme a break.
This car is working to it's maximum potential from the factory. That's a good thing for most people, but a bad thing if you want to mod.
And forget gutting or removing the cats... spew all that crap into the air just to get another 5 HP or so... gimme a break.
professional TL driver
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 548
Likes: 0
From: Tampa, FL
Originally Posted by ayethetiense
uhmmm... i would be cool if most of the gain was mid to high range... i wouldnt worry about traction at that point... i wouldnt slam on it unless im going straight ykno
professional TL driver
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 548
Likes: 0
From: Tampa, FL
Originally Posted by trebien
Well, a stock mustang drivetrain has a lot more room for improvement compared to a TL. The stock mustang 4.6L puts out 300HP - that's only 65HP per liter. Imagine if the TL only put out 209 HP from the factory (65HP per liter) - there would be a lot more room for improvement.
Like I said - the TL has been out a while, so the aftermarket has had plenty of time to make parts for it. Truth is, they don't because there just isn't much to be easily done - kind of like the current M3 engine - it's tweaked.
Also, consider this dilemma: Don't you think that Acura would like to do everything possible to lengthen the life of the $90K NSX that's 15 years old? It's so outclassed right now it's not even funny. But it only gets 290HP from the factory 3.2L - and you can bet your ass that the engine is maxed out, because that poor car needs every HP it can get right now to compete.
I'm not trying to piss in your cheerios, but you are expecting a few simple bolt-on breathing mods to get the engine near 100HP/liter... not going to happen. Forced induction would work, but you would need lower compression, so probably head spacers would be in order. If I know Acura, that engine bay is probably pretty tight, making a FI application hard to fit. And then you get into torque capacity of the transmissions/drivetrain/FWD/etc. This is my dilemma - I like the luxury aspect and fit/finish, but I wish it was more sporty. I don't mind modding, but this car is very difficult to mod efficiently.
Anyway - you have every right to dream and hope that it does happen - just be realistic so you're not disappointed. Good luck.
Like I said - the TL has been out a while, so the aftermarket has had plenty of time to make parts for it. Truth is, they don't because there just isn't much to be easily done - kind of like the current M3 engine - it's tweaked.
Also, consider this dilemma: Don't you think that Acura would like to do everything possible to lengthen the life of the $90K NSX that's 15 years old? It's so outclassed right now it's not even funny. But it only gets 290HP from the factory 3.2L - and you can bet your ass that the engine is maxed out, because that poor car needs every HP it can get right now to compete.
I'm not trying to piss in your cheerios, but you are expecting a few simple bolt-on breathing mods to get the engine near 100HP/liter... not going to happen. Forced induction would work, but you would need lower compression, so probably head spacers would be in order. If I know Acura, that engine bay is probably pretty tight, making a FI application hard to fit. And then you get into torque capacity of the transmissions/drivetrain/FWD/etc. This is my dilemma - I like the luxury aspect and fit/finish, but I wish it was more sporty. I don't mind modding, but this car is very difficult to mod efficiently.
Anyway - you have every right to dream and hope that it does happen - just be realistic so you're not disappointed. Good luck.
and the nsx motor is nothing like our motor. manufacturer, vavle # and displacement are about all they have.
the tl is sohc, 60 degree, with an 86 x 89 bore and stroke.
the nsx is dohc, 90 degree, with a 90 x 78 bore and stroke.
comparing the tl to the nsx motor is like comparing the tl to a mustang. the nsx is super exotic with titanium connecting rods, a forged crank, and carbon fiber reinforced block, and the bore and stroke #'s show it was built to rev. and the dohc nature of the motor reinforces that idea.
also the nsx has a lower compression ratio, if you were to put it at the same 11-1 ratio the tl has it would bump the hp to around 320, honda has choose not to do that thus far
Banned
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 35
Likes: 0
Originally Posted by trebien
Having worked in the performance field for a long time - you're dreaming.
Like I stated, everything is working pretty well stock - there's not much more available without opening the motor. And you talk about higher outputs for other engines... Sure there is. But that's with forged/specialized internals and different camshafts and valvetrain components, higher redlines, etc. I doubt the "breathing" accessories on the engine would net much more than 15HP tops. Even if you have plenty of air coming into the engine, it can only do so much with the stock valvetrain inside. If there was so much more to be had with simple breathing accessories, they'd be out on the market.
Like I stated, everything is working pretty well stock - there's not much more available without opening the motor. And you talk about higher outputs for other engines... Sure there is. But that's with forged/specialized internals and different camshafts and valvetrain components, higher redlines, etc. I doubt the "breathing" accessories on the engine would net much more than 15HP tops. Even if you have plenty of air coming into the engine, it can only do so much with the stock valvetrain inside. If there was so much more to be had with simple breathing accessories, they'd be out on the market.
Racer
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 359
Likes: 2
From: OKC
I don't think that ONAGER's numbers are so far fetched. In fact they are very obtainable IMO. However it may not be an Ultra Low Emissions vehicle afterwards nor as quiet as it is in factory form, but I'd be willing to bet that it would still pass Cali's starndards.
professional TL driver
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 548
Likes: 0
From: Tampa, FL
Originally Posted by chusteveb
I don't think that ONAGER's numbers are so far fetched. In fact they are very obtainable IMO. However it may not be an Ultra Low Emissions vehicle afterwards nor as quiet as it is in factory form, but I'd be willing to bet that it would still pass Cali's starndards.
One on the right for me
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 27,914
Likes: 272
From: Bay Area, CA
Originally Posted by ONAGER
it would be louder and it would no longer be ulev. as to it passing california standards i dont know that either.... i do know it probably wont pass a visual inspection, unless the person giving it is a dumbass and completely misses two cats not being there.... also i dont know how strict cali standars are, but from what i hear there pretty strict.... if i had to guess i would think they would catch it...
Intermediate
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 39
Likes: 0
From: Eagle River, Alaska
As far as the comment about handling better than a Corvette. You are kidding right? I own a 2001 Corvette and it sticks like glue compared to my TL. The TL is a great sedan but it is not even close to the same leaque as the Vet in reguards to performance.
lover and fighter
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 2,417
Likes: 32
From: St Augustine, Florida
Kind of a hi-jacked thread, trebien and onager...
Anyway, since this is about the s/c and the 3rd gen, well, I think the 3rd gen s/c kit will be perfectly fine. I would expect at least 255hp/230tq at the wheels for an auto (higher for the 6speed--probably 270/240) and all with only an exhaust and the stock pulley. Those are fairly significant numbers for a fwd, semi-luxury sedan, and certainly, with Comptech, the system is reliable.
You guys are both a little off on your optimism and criticism, but oddly, you both are redeemable...
Anyway, since this is about the s/c and the 3rd gen, well, I think the 3rd gen s/c kit will be perfectly fine. I would expect at least 255hp/230tq at the wheels for an auto (higher for the 6speed--probably 270/240) and all with only an exhaust and the stock pulley. Those are fairly significant numbers for a fwd, semi-luxury sedan, and certainly, with Comptech, the system is reliable.
You guys are both a little off on your optimism and criticism, but oddly, you both are redeemable...
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