Babnik

Is the only difference between SS and auto mode that you tell it when to shift, or does it also shift faster in SS mode?

I have noticed that my transmission shifts a lot smoother when in automatic mode. The shifts are so smooth I wouldn't notice them if it wasn't for the different engine pitch. In SS mode, the shifts are a bit jerky, but they seem faster, although it could be my imagination. I have noticed this both at hard acceleration and light acceleration.

wall e

i dont even kno how to work SS mode. do i juss + and - whenever i want or is there a certain time frame/range like in stick

greco9885

iTrader: (1)

not sure if its a "harder and faster" shift, but the main reason of SS mode is for "racing".
example: downshifting prior to entering a turn to achieve maximum acceleration...when im crusing i leave it in SSM just so when i "floor" it to pass someone, i do not want it to switch gears down and then up, and it will be repeated many times.

vinnier6

iTrader: (1)

first off, you cant do a better job shifting the car in ss then the car does in auto...

the main advantage of the ss is so you can hold a gear in a corner and not have the car upshift on you while in that corner...otherwise, you might as well let the car shift itself...

even when hard driving in a straight line, when you call for an upshift the car wont shift until its ready, or you end up shifting to late and pushing the tach into the redline or the cutoff point...

Babnik

Guys I'm not asking when or why I should use SS mode, I just want to know whether in SS mode it shifts faster/harder (or differently in any way). That's all.

I seem to remember someone here saying he was an Acura mechanic, but now I can't remember who it was.

Elegant TYPE S

iTrader: (2)

The only reason you want to use SS is if you want to control the shift points for example ride out the entire RPM band in every gear to the max to maximize the pickup and torque for that gear resulting in faster acceleration.

In automatic unless you floor it, it will not do that, it will shift gears to maximize fuel, so therefore you burn more fuel with SS. In theory the MT TL's are suppose to get better gas mileage but I'm sure if you ask the guys on this board they prolly get shittier gas mileage then us autos because they can't refrain from the kicks of acceleration.. haha.

I use it to have fun as well, just for the so called "spirited driving".

Bearcat94

Two Words:

Owners Manual

erick3

holds your gears longer...if you know how to work it out well - you can downshift from say 3 to 2 faster than in automatic "mode"

Turbonut

iTrader: (1)

It will offer the same feel IF you shift it at the same points when in SS. Normally people wait entirely too long to make the shift, more pressure equals harder shifts.

TeknoKing

Interesting thread... I barely ever use SS mode, as it is pointless on normal driving conditions, such as streets, highways.. Your auto tranny is quicker and more knowledgeable than you.

Now, when I take to rural roads, with bunch of curvy road, SS is my friend, and I love it. I also use SS the moment the tranny start hunting gears when you are in traffic around 20 mph... And of course to hold the 3rd gear for that maximum oomph.

MichaelBenz

iTrader: (2)

Did you know....that on the 2005 AT models....shift to low (all the way to bottom right below drive on the right hand gate) and it will 1-2 shift automatically at red line? Excellent for autocross....as those are the only two gears you need. It will also automatically downshift back to one...but I have had issues with not downshifting as fast as I would like at times....but you can adjust your driving style to accomodate for it as well.

As for the OP's question....no....it doesnt shift harder or anything else...just lets YOU control the shift points....to a great degree anyway....other than the 1-2....which sux.

ac08odl

yes it is faster.. next time you get in your car floor it and you will see that you rpms will change 2 thousand rpms b4 the red line(red line 6700) and belive it or not those 2k rpms make a big difference. now you have to know how to work ss mode with our cars because there is a delay... example<< in 1st gear while using ss mode and you flooring your car you need to swich gears right after the rpm pass 6k rmps and you will see the delay and it will red line right on time.. second gear, if you still flooring your car you need to change gears @ 6500 rpms and with the delay it will red line.. 3rd gear if you still flooring it and you doing it right you should be @ 75 80 mph going into 3rd gear (still in second) and from 3rd gear theres no delay so you just shift at the red line....

do what i do, when im using ss mode i pretend in 1st gear my red line it 6100 rpms and i swich there and it second gear i pretend my red line is 6500 rpms and 3 4 5 you just red line at the cars red line which is 6700 rpms..

enjoy drive safe and let me know if it worked out for ya....

greco9885

iTrader: (1)

first of all, its 200 rpm's, not 2000, 6700-2000=4700rpm(what u meant).

2ndly, ur wrong...when in auto it takes out the driver error, which makes it faster all the time everytime. no matter what, ur gunna shift either too soon or too late. granted, sometimes u will get it right, but will u get it right 100% of the time? No.
auto = drag race = faster = more precise

edit: lastly, why shift at 6100rpms? it takes ~300rpm to shift when floored. so ur loosing ~300rpm. therefore u will not reach max speed per gear

vinnier6

iTrader: (1)

exactly what he said....there is no way you can sportshift the car better than the auto can, there is also no way you can stare at the tach and hit the shifter just right 100% of the time, not to mention you need to keep you eyes on the road and not the tach....

all your going to end up doing is running into the rev limiter and slowing your self down with missed upshifts....

Cecilt

So in essence don't use the SS for racing at a stop light but use it to hold gears on those twisties or in a turn? What about highway passing? I would rather anticipate (when you can) and downshift to 3rd and floor it and than floor it in auto and feel the tranny kick down to 3rd.

greco9885

iTrader: (1)

^^i like to keep it in SS when im on the highway, just so i had control over the gearing. mainly so i can downshift when my radar detector goes off, and i use it for passing, i wont downshift to 3rd to pass a car, i just go to 4th and its enough to overtake the other car.

wall e

Two Words: Thank you!

ac08odl

i ment 200 ty.. as far as shiftin to early and late that happens 9 out of 10 times to me, you have to be nice with it and trust me with the 200 extra rpms is alot of power... also i dont look at the rpm you i hear when the v tec kicks in and count 3 sec in my head and that means its time to change and when i change i change on the money... take your car out and play with it , you will c

I hate cars

It doesn't shift harder or faster in SS.

The only time I use it is descending long hills to control my speed and there's one spot near LA when I merge onto one freeway, get all the way over, and merge onto the next. I don't have time to wait for it to downshift to squeeze my way across an entire packed freeway in 1/8 mile.

MichaelBenz

iTrader: (2)

Damn....faster in auto than when I shift it myself in SS on a dragstrip....not so. Fact is...it shifts too early. I have done it both ways...and SS mode is the way to go for me. And all this looking at the tach? Nope...I do it by ear. Its all about being in tune with what the car is capable of.

Turbonut

iTrader: (1)

That's kind of strange as most engines will have a point that is found to be the optimal shift rpm and that certainly can't be precisely duplicated every time under all conditions with the human ear.

TL|GTX

Hell, when i was turning and floored into auto my car would do a burnout, and would try to spin. A tip don't floor the car will in auto, b/c u might hit another car, if u can't control it.

Babnik

The reason I asked my question wasn't for racing purposes but because I thought I could save wear on the transmission by using SS mode, I noticed the auto mode seems to shift too often it's always changing it's mind and I thought these frequent shifts would reduce the life of the transmission but if SS mode shifts were harder then they would probably cause more wear so that would negate my efforts. In city driving I'm almost always driving at between 30 and 60 km/h and so it's always shifting between 3rd and 4th to maintain those speeds, however by using SS mode I could keep it in 3rd (2100 rpm in 3rd gear is about 60 km/h but auto mode seems to prefer being around 1500-1600 rpm). So I often get situations where there's a red light ahead and I let go of the gas but it still shifts from 3rd to 4th, that's one shift I could save if I'm in SS mode. I know better than the transmission does whether 3 seconds in the future I will be going faster or slowing down, so I prefer to make the decisions.

In any case I wish I'd bought a manual.

MichaelBenz

iTrader: (2)

The Mikey smiles. Wanna bet? If the display at the end of the strip tells me I ran faster, I accomplished the same. Then you get to a point where all runs are consistent to the point where heat soak will eventually get ya...if your hot lapping anyway. I can take my car to the strip and run consistent times time after time. If I actually look....I usually command for the shift about 700 - 500 rpm prior to redline limiter. As stated...it takes about 300 rpm eaten in the car at WOT actually mechanically shifting in an AT after the command...and I like to shift a few 100 rpms prior to that because there is a point where the car leans over and stops making power.

I have been told though by many mechanics through the years...that I am probably in a very small percentile of the population that is literally "in tune" to what the car does so much that if the AC isnt cycling exactly right....or the left tire is a few psi low...or the car produces more power under different atmospheric conditions....I can tell you that out of the box by feel or sound from the seat. I literally notice EVERYTHING. There was a thread a while back about if they were in your TL what music would they be listening to...and I think I answered what type music I listen to...but fact is....99.5% of the time....I have NOTHING on. Its a distraction.

I guess I could re-learn to drive with strictly guages and get around that and enjoy some jams more ...but for some reason....teaching an old dog new tricks...lol...you know.

vinnier6

iTrader: (1)

man your a good race car driver....

Turbonut

iTrader: (1)

Yea, I'll bet! We'll cover the tach and let you do your shifting and see how accurate you are at different times. Sorry to say, you're not that good to be dead on all the time, impossible. No one said to drive strictly by the gauges, but I know when the optimum sweet spot is let's say 7100, you're not going to be able to detect it by ear and be dead on time after time. You may be around the range, which we can all do once we become accustomed to the characteristics of the vehicle, but I know when I was shifting one of our vehicles at 9200, there wasn't anyway I would be balls on without the tach, or in some cases using preset computer shift points in a automatic.

greco9885

iTrader: (1)

what car can u shift at 9200 rpms? in auto

TL|GTX

Some tuned out car with a 10k rpm.

MichaelBenz

iTrader: (2)

Not a problem! Would be willing to line em up anytime...lol. Yep....I can tell the difference...and I know right when my car is about to learn over and stop making power just by feel and experience. I didnt say I started right out of the bag that way....it takes experience with any car...but for me....its no big deal whatsoever. Cause while you guys are all paying attention to your tach....I will be noticing the whole of the situation....wheel spin....exactly where and when on course it starts to get traction and under what conditions, ect. Believe it.

But seriously....I would be willing to line up with any guage driver for shits and giggles. Hell...prove me wrong and I might just change! Why in the world would people even use shift lights EVER if they felt they could just pay attention to the tach alone to tell them what they need to know? And boost? WTF...who cares. Its gonna make what its gonna make regardless of one paying attention to that....I look at that ever now and then for shits and giggles to let me know if there is a greater problem (ie...low boost may mean internal issues, ect) And the speedo....again....Italian rule of racing...whats behind me....does a not concern me.....during race conditions be it drag or track.....I still go by feel. I drive as fast as I can while still maintaining a traction variable between the front and rear depending on what I am trying to accomplish (ie...turn in...ect) Its really not that hard....its all about knowing what you are doing and how to performance drive - which is a totally different animal than street driving. Driving on a track requires lots of skill and training that comes through years of experience, training, and study.

If you talk to most of your competitive professional drivers...they will tell you the same. Guages are there for a reason. But once you truely learn the car, they arent much more than a handicap if you need it at the time. Its technique that wins races...not guages. Now knowing what your looking at and how it relates to driving manuevers is another story. I'll stop now...cause I could write a book on this subject! lol

ifirahse

iTrader: (6)

Are you talking about the 101 and 405?

Turbonut

iTrader: (1)

First off, a shift light is to detect a specific rpm so you don’t need to look at the tach. Just look down the track and when the shift light comes on, shift.

Boost is another story. Why wouldn’t you care about boost? I know with the Hallman remote, I can raise or lower the boost level to whatever I want, but naturally not lower than the factory waste gate pressure.

I guess the professional driver’s that don’t need tachs don’t include Nascar as they use the tach to ensure their speed on pit lane, but not being smart, I guess you wouldn’t need one as you would know the speed that your car is travelling.

Hey, if you think you can do it, that's all that counts.
Got to watch the football game now.

MichaelBenz

iTrader: (2)

Exactly. So they can concentrate on other driving inputs possibly?

As for the Nascar coorelation....as I said...tachs are there for a reason! That would be one of em. Do you think they spend all their time looking at it as they are in competition though? Only to avoid over redlining it and thats about it.

And I dont think I can do it...I know! Trust me...I have been to plenty of comptetitive driver training and have more than enough experience to know what I am talking about. I didnt win street mod class this year in a family car boat of a TL by not knowing what I am doing.

And as for boost....why would I care...I dont drive a turbo charged car? We are talking about the TL here. Have yet to see one with a turbo. Would be nice to see one though. Someday somebody will go down that street! The supercharger is going to boost as it does....no control that way other than HBP and normal pulley with the comptech unit.

Turbonut

iTrader: (1)

What other driver inputs can there be on the strip, other than having the RPM's correct when the light comes on and shifting at the correct RPM? If you have all the right equipment for the car to hook up, this should always be the situation, then its concentration on shifting at the optimum RPM.

Exactly. I think redlining is a perfect example as to why one would look at the tach.
So a tach is necessary?

With about 350 strips in the US and all the classes, do you realize how many winners that can profess to be authorities on a subject? Give you condos for winning, but bracket racing in Street Mod is a far cry from professional racing.

I certainly would care about the boost even on a supercharger, e.g. how and when the boost starts, when maximum boost is obtained as the more RPM’s the higher the boost, but these would be hard to depict as the tach is not used.

Time to get some breakfast.

MichaelBenz

iTrader: (2)

^^^Actually....Street Mod is an SCCA class. They dont get into drag racing. And when you are driving autocross....spend your time looking at the tach and you have missed about four driver inputs you probably needed to do to get through the next section.

I think we are trying to bunch too many different venues of driving in one debate here frankly. It depends greatly on what you do with your car. I mainly autocross. Turning is a big difference in driving style than straight line. I turn way better than I straight line. Frankly....IMO anything under about an 11 second car is no fun to straightline anyway. But thats JMO.

vinnier6

iTrader: (1)

i dont know why anyone is drag racing a tl anyway....

Turbonut

iTrader: (1)

I didn't realize that you were speaking of a road course. That TL must be a handful on the circuit with the FWD and light rear. I've seen some of the FWD racers and am amazed how the inside rear wheel comes off the ground, unbelievable.

Good luck in the future!

Bearcat94

1.) To "proof" your mods. Have you *really* added power/improved performance? Cheaper than a dyno too.

2.) It's fun.


But, as an every couple of week-ends and/or competitive thing - no. There are many cars much better suited to a "drag project car" than a TL.


And MB is right about auto-cross - look at the tach, miss a gate or hit a cone. You have to learn to feel/hear what the car is doing regards rpm management, traction, throttle control, etc. The course is too short and goes by too fast to be driving with your eyes in the car.

YeuEmMaiMai

I use mine to force the car into 5th gear at 35 instead of 42 when I am travelling down a low speed rd...gets me slightly better gas milage...funny thing is the old trans did go into 5th at 35......

vinnier6

iTrader: (1)

i know its fun, we used to hit the drag strips all the time with our sportbikes...

but a 4 door luxury sport....i dont see the point...dont get me wrong, i love the sportyness of my type s, and i love to romp if off the line at stop lights from time to time, but drag strip abuse is not in the near future of my car....