Hello everyone... Where's all the STL (St. Louis, MO) members???

I'm new to this site, I'm mostly at is300.net a lot.

I'm still waiting for my TL w/A-SPEC to arrived (3 more weeks).
My question is... I plan on removing the A-SPEC wheels during winter months and use the stock all-seasons 17". Will this work? The stock tires won't hit/scrape the fenders/side, right?

Does anyone know what brand the springs and shocks are on the A-SPEC?

Thx...

 

I believe the improved tires provide the greatest improvement, but the suspension does a fine job of improving the TL's handling characteristics. Aero pieces are nice and practically speaking are an appearance upgrade. However, it is nice that they were actually designed and tested to reduce drag and improve downforce. I don't think many appearance body kits can make that claim. Steering wheel provides a tactile improvement and a 'love it or hate it' appearance upgrade. It won't make the car go faster, but I think it contributes in a small way to a more pleasureable driving experience. If you don't get it, ignorance is probably bliss.

 

Not sure about the brand of the springs/shocks. I seem to remember someone saying who made them. A search may reveal who.

There is no problem using the 17" wheels coupled with the A-spec springs/shocks. Tires are the same diameter and width is very close. More likely to rub with the 18" wheels than the 17" wheels actually. But, it won't rub either way.

 

I think I heard someone say that Comptech makes the springs for Acura

 

Don't really care if you believe me or not but the thicker steering wheel provides improved handling but it is also characterized as 'racing-style' so it's part show and part go. Still improves handling which translates to better performance.

A-Spec improves drag coefficient as well as lift coefficient. If you can't notice the difference it's not my problem.

From http://www.acuranews.com [link]:

The A-SPEC kit also includes 18-inch alloy wheels. Designed using a new, advanced manufacturing process that provides forged strength and rolled manufacturing ease, the wheel rims are thinner yet stronger than a cast alloy wheel. Also, while they are one-inch larger in diameter, and half an inch wider than the production TL wheels, the A-SPEC wheels are only slightly heavier.

They are shod with high performance AVS ES100 235/40VR18 95W Yokohama tires designed specifically for the TL A-SPEC package. These tires provide excellent ride quality, especially for a 40 series aspect ratio, as well as optimum grip and predictable response under high performance conditions.

There's more than one part that improves performance. Satisfied?

And you are entitled to yours. Some people want enough just to get by. It takes all kinds I guess.

The dealers are a bunch of whores for the most part. They will sell you a box with dog shit in it if you are willing to pay for it. I come around here enough to know that you run up and down these threads correcting your own posts. Idiot.

Loud and clear Chester.

Extraneous smilies removed

 

Yeah, but the suspension provides the biggest improvement. By a wide margin. A very wide margin. Perhaps 95% of the total package. Which is the point I've been trying to make all along.

The steering wheel thing still cracks me up. I can't beleive you think it improves performance.

 

Just a thought on tire footprints. The same tire mounted on a 8" and 8.5" will have a bigger footprint with the 8.5" wheel. In addition, not all 235 size tires are actually going to be the same width.

 

yeah, I laughed when I read that, too

 

I measured the tire's footprint this weekend. A-spec Yoko's on 8.5 inch rims is ~3 mm wider. The real difference is in sidewall angle. Yoko's looked straighter. I'll give the wheel/tire setup a 10% improvement value on handling from the stock setup. So, as stated by other members, suspension is responsible for the other 90% improvement. The body kit will only help at speeds of over 100 mph, and that help is just 0.01 over the normal Cd. of the car.

 

I am about to buy the TL and get the A-Spec pacakge but my dealer said they would give me $700 off if I wanted to use my own tires.... what tires are reccomended? I want all season, I don't want to have to change them come snow time... hmm?

thanks

 

Kind of makes me wonder why Acura included the thicker racing-style steering wheel in the A-Spec package in the first place. If you don't buy (or can't afford) the entire A-Spec package you'll never know the difference I guess.

 

So you decide the wheels and tires give a 10% improvement and that is the gospel? Sorry, but dcarlinf1 wants time slips, dynos, magazine reviews. Something that will make him feel better about buying only the suspension and then begging the dealer for the A-Spec badge.... This is an outrage....

 

Well, not decided, more like calculated. And as a matter of fact, I was wrong, both tires have the exact same footprint. I was off for 3mm. Read this lines extracted from a Car and Driver article:

"Like a lot of stuff people are attaching to their cars, some of the A-Spec package is devoted to eye candy—the front air dam, the ground-effects rocker panels, the rear spoiler (high wing or decklid, your pick), the A-Spec steering wheel, and the A-Spec badging inside and out. But there is a hard core to the collection—retuned shocks, higher spring rates, and 8.5-by-18-inch aluminum alloy wheels (versus the standard 8.0-by-17s) wearing 235/40ZR-18 95W Yokohama AVS ES100 tires (versus one of two standard Bridgestone tires: all-season Turanzas for automatics, high-performance Potenzas for manual-transmission models). The footprint of the Yokohamas and the Bridgestones is the same, but with an aspect ratio of 40 versus 45, the A-Spec tire has a bit less sidewall, which means less flex, which means better handling response. And those 18-inchers fill the wheel wells, giving the TL an even more aggressive look."

http://www.caranddriver.com/article....&page_number=1

Less sidewall, less flex, better responce. It is the shocks and spirngs what make the difference. Quite frankly, the badge for me is nothing.

Some additional reviews:
http://www.roadandtrack.com/article....ber=3&preview=
http://www.caranddriver.com/article....&page_number=6
http://www.caranddriver.com/article....&page_number=1

 

I agree the suspension improves performance more than the rest of the A-Spec package, but in GO-TL's defense, think of it this way. Pete Sampras (spell check please) is good at tennis no matter what racket he uses. But don't you think he's better using a Titanium racket as oppose to a generic aluminum? He'll still kick my ass in the game, but I'm sure it would be worse if he used the Titanium. Okay, enough with the lame analogy.

I don't care who uses the badge, as long as the dealer whores don't pass them out like their business cards. Just keep in mind that their are other TL owners who may despise you when they see the badge and know visible A-Spec package is present, other than the half inch drop from the suspension which some people may not even notice.

 

Good points all around from everyone. Well maybe the steering wheel is a bit of a stretch but I have driven the car with and without it. Others posting in this thread? I don't know. They really haven't expounded much on that. Overall, the temptation for the dealer to mix and match these kits is understandable. The dealer makes a great deal of his money in the service/parts department. It does not make the practice acceptable IMHO.

 

Car and driver tested the TL A-spec anit got .90G's on the skid pad while the base model gets .89G's on the skid pad. The sespension only adds less than 1% of performance. So Basiclly your just buying the emblem and 2 lips for 6k. I'm straight i rather get a MUGEN lip kit.

 

Received my Anthracite/A spec/Nav/6MT in late May. Waited about two weeks before the kit arrived so had the same car in both Aspec and Non Aspec. Have also had two non-Aspec loaners and drove a buddy's Comptech lowered TL. Answering the question originally posed, yes I think it is worth it but. (1) Try to get it when you purchase the car the warranty is then the new car warranty vice the parts warranty (only 1 year). (2) At a minimum do not pay the installation fee on a new car -- great bargaining point. And (3) The dealer price for the whole kit is around $3500 so offer $4000 to start. (I got mine installed for that.) Some specifics (note I am comparing Aspec vs. Stock no upgraded tires etc. For you BMW haters, yes I have owned a few BMWs -- none now. However they provide some good comparison points on performance upgrades.):

Suspension -- As many have noted the suspension upgrade is the heart and soul of the upgrade. Looking at skid pad gives some quantitative feel IRT steady state grip but little qualitative/subjective info. The .01 improvement in skid pad performance is very similar to what you see when comparing an old 5 series to an M5 and a 3 series to the M3. (FWIW if you look at R&T road test summary it has cars with exactly the same skid pad and different slalom times and vice versa so it tells only a part of the story.) The body roll is significantly decreased so the slalom will be better. This is really obvious on winding roads or swooping onramps as there is no roll in the Aspec car. IMO the biggest improvement is that the bobbing from the standard suspension is essentially gone. After riding in an Aspec, the bob from interstate expansion joints seems like a carnival ride in a non-Aspec (slight exaggeration for effect.) From my two weeks and two loaners I must admit the typical FWD fore and aft bobs in an aggressive start are gone. In the C&D report the biggest comment is about ride stiffening/bob elimination not skid pad improvements -- and is probably why the Aspec had the best 0-60 time of the TLs I have seen tested. IMO the Aspec shocks are well tuned for the car. I have measured the drop and believe it to be about 0.7 inches forward and aft (although a few folks say 0.5”). So if you want your car lowered it does that but not as low as some want.

Wheels/tires -- If you want larger wheels/tires it is a reasonable option. The smaller side wall will improve handling and the Yoko's are a decent tire (yes there are better.) It is a matter of taste as to looks. I think the Aspecs look great with dark colors but with white or SSM I am not as impressed. I must admit I get a lot of "love those wheels” comments. Now comparing Aspec to stock EL-42s, I think that everyone who follows this board will give more than a slight edge to the Yokos on 18s. Is it 10%? Most folks will recommend upgrading wheels/tires and suspension as a group (unless the wheels tires are done already.). I have not driven my Aspec with 17s (but will this winter so ask me then) but without a drive any quantitative measurement would be a SWAG (scientific wild assed guess) but I have a hard time believing that anyone wants to compare EL42s with the Yokos (on tire rack EL42s are rated as good and the Yokos are superior to excellent.)

Body kit -- IMO it looks good. Improves cD a bit which equates to about 1MPH at 50 and 2MPH at 100 (actually probably a touch more but certainly not double that). In some of the original dealer propaganda the underbody kit/spoilers with lowered Aspec suspension were reported as lowering cD and increasing the downward force on the car at speeds over 50. In general all decent underbody kits are designed with those improvements in mind. Is it a huge performance improvement -- no? But if you like the look, the slight improvement is a bonus. (Side thought ... when BMW went to the 330i performance package they added a factory installed body kit to distinguish the PP from a standard 330. It improved cD about the same amount. So it is not that odd an idea.)

Steering wheel – The Aspec wheel feels nicer and the gray tabs match quartz interior so it looks better in my car again IMO. I must admit this was a WTH when I heard it but … when BMW and MB make M cars, AMGs, or performance packages they almost always upgrade the steering wheel as a part of the package. It is a noticeably different feel when you drive and I prefer it to the skinny non-Aspec wheel. (I also put new stainless pedals on all my cars as I hate the rubber ones but that is just me … they may be worth 10 to 15 HP.) However, at most driver schools they harp on the steering wheel as one of the connections between man and machine. As an old SCCA driver (MGs) we always thickened up the wheel with leather covers to get a better grip/feel on the wheel. But as a true “performance upgrade” it probably comes up short.

The badge – probably would have left it off if I had known it came with the kit -- just another item for some dipstick to like more than me and try to steal. If you think the suspension qualifies you for a badge put it on. You will feel good about it and can brag to your friends, most folks will not know or understand, and those who care will think you are a poser … what a great country everyone has their own differing opinion and they are all happy. {When I was driving an M3, I met some 20ish kid by the mall with a Honda Civic (pumpkin chucker exhaust, CAI, expensive paint job, huge rims, and a punch of BMW M badges). While I was looking at his ride he went out of his way to tell me his civic had M badges because it was specially tuned when he was stationed in Germany. I thought I would die. The look on his face as he watched me get in my M3 was a classic.} But hey it’s a free country and it’s your ride. But I have to admit if you think the body kit and steering wheel are just for looks and thus a joke, why would you put an extra badge on your car.

FWIW, the Aspec kit may actually be a bigger handling improvement on the 5AT then the 6MT. Have not drove an Aspec’d 5AT but the acceleration bobing on the 5AT is IMO worse than the 6MT.

A few other thoughts:

Yes you can get other non-Aspec 18” wheels and tires. I searched around online for the same Yoko tires with some 18 X 8 inch wheels and the best price was about $1500 plus shipping (and the wheels were butt ugly and heavy.) It is hard (if not impossible) to find 18s in 8.5 widths that will fit a TL without using spacers of some type. Most of the wheels I found (less one set -- RONJONs) were 8 inches vice 8.5 inches. With Aspec you get your old 17s so if you want to sell the old wheels or use them for snows, you can. There is no advantage in net cost area as there is with most cars when buying after market wheels. Finally, most dealers will let you upgrade the Aspec tires if you want to pay the difference between the Yokos and your selected tire so you can pretty much get the tire you want if the Yokos do not ring your bell. If you do not like the Aspec wheels this is certainly a viable option but if you are comparing wheel/tire cost (not the whole Aspec package) you won’t be saving a boatload of $$$ for light wheels and decent tires.

Comptech springs will lower your car more about 1” to 1 ¼” (Comptech website says 1”). The look appeals to some folks better than Aspec. I think it is too low … a matter of taste … although it is lower so parking lot curbs and speed bumps may be interesting. The lower center of gravity will improve handling some but it is not a tuned suspension upgrade like Aspec. However, lowering springs have some disadvantages IRT ride harshness and shock wear. I drove a Comptech lowered TL on Aspec 18s -- it is harsher than Aspec and still has some body roll and nose down on braking and front/rear bobing on acceleration. The fender/wheel gap looks better but it does look low … too low for me but again that is a matter of opinion. Recently a few folks on this forum have reported unusual tire wear on some spring lowered cars that may be camber related (the one I drove is having some odd tire wear.) Having played with lowering springs a lot in a younger life, if you go this route check your alignment (including camber) after the install and about 1 month later after the springs/suspension settles. As many have said 1” lowering should be fine without a camber kit but 2” is definitely not fine. Finally Acura USA does not warranty Comptech. Some individual dealers will if they install it but there is no link between Acura USA and Comptech (nor does Comptech claim there is on their website or in their advertisements.) I checked into this very closely when I was deciding on the Aspec kit and most dealers who are authorized Comptech dealers will only warranty their work. So read the warranty and talk to your installer and the service manager at the dealer you plan to use for service. I frequently see the Comptech warranty discussed on the board and have talked to Comptech and Acura USA in this regards at best you will get a limited local warranty that other dealers may honor (check the length of the warranty also). Now when Comptech (or ground control) puts together an adjustable Koni coilover kit for the TL we will be talking.

Finally, the Aspec kit is an Acura accessory not an aftermarket mod. In general after market mods (including wheels) do not increase the resale value of your car (either trade or private sale). Most folks remove them before the sale (if possible) and sell them separately. Factory accessories and performance packages generally doincrease resale. How the Aspec kit will fair remains to be seen as it is too new to tell.

I know this is long but wanted to put down some thoughts. I have Aspec and would not get the TL without it. Others feel different but few have spent significant time in both aspec and nonAspec.

ATB,
Tom

 

Trube78-truly a very helpful and insightful write up. This is the kind of information that makes this forum so incredibly helpful. Thanks very much to all on this thread.

 

Great post.

 

wow

 

I concur...great post trube78!!

One comment though. Referring to the badge, you said...

Just in case you (and others) weren't aware, the instructions for installing the A-Spec suspension parts include steps covering where and how to install the badge (steps 34-37).

https://h-o-n-d-a-c-u-r-a-w-o-r-l-d....suspension.pdf

(hint: remove the dashes)

It is the final step(s) while installing the suspension. Not the body kit, the wheels or anything else. Those have seperate instructions. To me that implies that Acura feels, as do I, that the badge belongs on TL's with the A-Spec suspension regardless of what other A-Spec parts you did or didn't chose. So, I believe that the suspension alone does justify the badge and doing this does not make you a poser.

When I am done with my TL, I will have the body kit, the 18" wheels, better brakes pads, the suspension and the badge. I am not interested in the spoilers or the steering wheel. In my opinion, my TL will be a legit A-Spec.

 

DFCARLIN,

In Acura's initial plan the only way to get the suspension was to buy the kit so putting the badge install instructions there made good sense. As always a few dealers went for the $$$ and split up the kits so it is one of those situations that other luxury/sport car dealers would never allow to happen.(BMW will not allow you to order some of their upgrades without an appropriate VIN and written promise from the dealer that it is going on an appropriate car.) While I got the steering wheel and like it it is a nice to have vice "real performance enhancement."

I would suggest you look at the lip spoiler, it adds a bit IMO to the car particularly after the underbody kit is installed -- kinda understated. The wing is a bit much (again IMO) but I have seen worse.

My guess is the Pirelli's on the 18s look and ride great -- will be one of the tires I consider when the Yokos fade away. They are great tires and actually get a decent snow rating which is unusual but in an 18-245/40 they may be a little wide with too little sidewall for bad snow.

How do you like your CAI, I would love to see some 2nd party before and after dynos of a few of the CAIs. I have read the claims and I just cannot swallow the improvements that are being touted for a CAI alone (i.e. w/o exhaust, chips, cams or something) not saying they are impossible, just stretch my engineering knowledge/logic a bit.

As to what is a poser? Who cares? Sounds like you got a pretty awesome ride. They could put Aspec badges on Yugos, Kias, and Huffy's for all I care. If I was looking to change something about cars it would be to illegalize stereos they are played so loud they drown out an outdoor rock concert and illegalize non hands free cell phones. (Oh and maybe those spinner things.)

Take care.
ATB,
Tom

 

I for one am glad that certain dealers will sell the suspension separately. I don't think of them as "whores", although that term might describe them quite well.

The BMW Performance Package on the 3 is from the factory. You pay $3900 and get everything done at the factory (this is from what I have read). The A-Spec package is more expensive and you don't get any engine upgrades (the 3 gets a nominal 10 hp) plus beyond all that you have to pay for installation.

I'm the first to admit that the whole A-Spec package is worth it (if you like everything that is part of the kit), and that going aftermarket will not save you much. But leave the install to the dealers and sometimes what the dealers charge is outrageous (one of the dealers I asked wanted to charge me $2000 for just installation). I'm seriously looking at getting the suspension, and upgrading the wheels to some aftermarket brand. I like having that flexibility to pick and choose.

Also, the kits on the Acura's have always been a pick and choose affair. However this is the first time it is also offered as part of a comprehensive A-Spec kit. If I had it my way, I would have it structured the entire kit a la carte.

Additionally, about the badges. It's a personal decision. Some debadge everything, and some put A-Spec on. Hell, we have a person that has "Type S" on their 3rd gen TL. I have plenty of opinions on it, but they are paying for it not me. If a person thinks the badge is justified...that's fine by me.

 

Yes, but not for the full MSRP from the dealer. I bought mine from Acura dealers off ebay.

 

IMO the only thing in the a-spec package that's worth it is the suspension. Any aerodynamic gain from the body kit is offset by the additional weight and supposedly extra downforce. Downforce does not make your car go fast, it makes it more stable at high speed (as in 100+). Both no one mentioned yet.

Buy the a-spec suspension, ct RSB, a set of nice, forged wheels w/ tires and you might even save some money in the process.

 

If I had kept my ’04 TL, I would only install A-spec front lip spoiler and 18” wheels for summer and keep 17” for winters with some winter rubber. Since I will be looking to get ’07 model TL, the exterior might change a bit, so perhaps I might not even consider a front lip spoiler (’06 Accord looks ugly with the factory front spoiler, but ’03-05 are soo nice – go figure, wonder if TL will be the same way). The suspension mod I would only consider for the appearance not performance since I liked the way TL handled in the stock form.

 

I personally like the lines of my TL as it is and only plan to do some suspension work and rims and tires. The way I look at it for the same $$$ I can do some work on handling and get a SMOKIN' set of rims and tires and have money left over for some zaino to make it all pretty . As above, it comes down to personal preference - but that's mine .

 

Regardless of skipad numbers, the A Spec suspension feels lightyears ahead of the stock TL, not to mention the bonus of looking more aggressive with the body kit.

 

I really like the look of the ASPEC body kit - but as far as the other stuff I'd have to really think about it.........maybe in time but at least not right now

 

Don't do it...too many A-Specs on the road already. Just kidding, I love my kit and I would not have bought the car without it.

 

Get the A-spec... looks subtle and sets it apart.

Everywhere you look these days you see a TL, so I had to mod mine to look a little different

 

Wow this thread was awakened from the ashes. Add the Aspec Kit to my car was the best thing I did. Did all but steering wheel, added a Comptech RSB, this is the way it should have come from the factory.

 

Wow, trube78's post almost has me leaning torwards the aspec vs the tien ss now. Has anybody driven both (tien ss in softest mode)? Would appreciate any comparison feedback.

 

Alright, alright, alright....... what about THIS?

Does the A-Spec suspension AND the 18" rims (with Kumho ECSTA SPT's... better than Yoko's IMHO) qualify the car for an A-spec badge? Come on, give a guy a break here. Plus I'd get the body kit if I liked the way it looked. ... But I don't.

In my eyes, suspension + wheels qualifies, and I'm ready to put the label on. What do you guys think?

 

I did suspension and wheels only. I don't know if I really care for the body kit, and I agree with the others that say the suspension is what makes it a true a-spec and not the plastic body kit. It's all about performance, right?

 

If you want an honest answer, I would also put the body bit on before the badge. But thats just me.

 

dont like the body kit??? what? the kit is awesome. dont get me wrong, the TL is cool without. but the full aspec including the kit makes it look totally different and much improved. but everyone has their opinion. my apsec was already on when i bought mine so i didnt really have a choice. actually, i did. i could have bought another car. but i didnt, and that was because of the aspec. it was either a used white 04 with nav or a new 06 black with no nav and aspec. i went with the aspec. and i could not be happier. i like the steering wheel too, not like it does anything for performance but another thing that sets it apart from the typical TL.

 

Exactly my point. I don't need added plastic (ahem... other than the emblem) to herald my car's A-spec status. ... I'm beginning to be tempted by that steering wheel, though!



By the way I forgot to answer the question at hand: YES, the A-spec mod is totally worth doing, in my opinion. My car feels head and shoulders better than stock, without feeling harsh on the ride at all. I also think it makes the car look better (I had my car side by side with a stock car and you CAN see the difference in the drop). Oh man and my A-spec rims (satin finish) look absolutely killer.

A-spec gets a from me!

 

As you said, to each his/her own but... I especially don't like the front lip, and I also don't like how the kit doesn't color-match exactly. The car looks just fine without it, and lack of the bodykit certainly shouldn't negate the possiblity of affixing the "A-Spec" badge.

 

sorry, forgot to answer the original question. yes, aspec is worth it. now i cant compare before and after because i have never driven a non-aspec TL, but i love mine with it. it is by far one of the best front wheel drive cars i have ever driven. i have never felt like it was going to go out of control and it just sticks to the ground while cornering. my last car was a 95 monte z34 and after i added a strut tower brace it made a huge difference. but this car just blows that out of the water. again, i cant compare before and after. but i could not imagine this car with it.

agreed about the plastic not being a requirement, it is still an aspec. but again, i dont think i would have gotten it without. the kit just makes it look that much lower and much more aggressive.

how about brakes?? i know there is an upgrade. i got the automatic, how much of a difference is there from stock? again, mine came with so i cant compare. is it worth it to replace with the same, when needed, or would another brake pad be better or a better value for the performance?