I'm driving my buddy down to Indiana on Friday to pick up a 2002 E46 M3 that he just bought. The only mod it has is a (misaligned ) Borla exhaust kit.

We're both pretty excited at the prospects for a bit of fun on the drive back to Wisconsin, assuming we can find some clear stretches of road

So just how badly do we think he's gonna roll my car over? Trying to prep myself for the impending curbstomping

He thinks it'll be pretty close from a roll, but it's the dig that would probably kill me as he has all that low-end torque from the bimmer inline 6.

 

I wouldn't say he has 'all that low end.' It's an M3 that revs out to 8K+. If he gets a decent launch he should pull on you from a dig though. From a roll it should be pretty close I'd assume. You're probably pushing 285-290whp with your current mods, which is probably a little more than the e46 puts down stock. But he can rev higher and has gearing in his favor. Should be interesting. Please get vids!!!

 

not as badly as you think

 

No reason for it not to be a good race.

 

I think you can hang...he should walk you pretty good though.

 

I'm not sure how many miles your TL has, but considering how his e46 is a 2002, I'm sure it has quite a few digits on the speedometer, which means the engine won't be putting out what it did when it was new, and there will be more drive train loss.
I did some research. A New e46 dyno'd at 290-295whp back in 02, and e46s with 60-80k miles dyno at average of 260whp today. The car is 10 years old after all.
Taking his Borla into consideration, my guess is that he's going to be putting down about 275-280 to the wheels at the most and around 250ish on the torque side. He is lighter though and RWD so he'll almost certainly take you from a dig. But from a roll, well it could be a driver's race. Take a vid.. I wanna see!

 

interesting, and yea his M3 has higher mileage (about 69k), and I'm actually just about to clock 69k on my car as well but I recently dyno'd on the Mustang at 265 and have made some tweaks since then, and I'm also running about 200 pounds of weight reduction.

That M3 does run decently strong though - i was there for the test drive last weekend and it has a new clutch so it's grabbing hard, and it just had the 60k maintenance done so the engine is sounding pretty good too. I think we will have some good pulls and should be a lot of fun.

He is a good driver but we've been tracking together for 10 years and I've always been better in a straight line. It will be interesting.

I'm gonna try to pick up a gopro from Best Buy before we leave on Friday to hopefully get some decent video.

 

Well maintained cars don't lose 30-35 whp just because they're 10 years old. It's just that there is some variation from car to car right off the assembly line, and even more variation from dyno to dyno. In general, the e46 M3 makes in the 270-285 range stock, and they don't make much more with basic bolt ons since they were pretty well uncorked and aggressively tuned right off the line. Most cat backs do nothing for them but add sound.


Should be a decent run up top, but down low he should pull. I'd try a 50 mph 2nd gear roll. TL pulls decently from there.

 

Idk I'm gonna say you will be side by side in 4th gear. The m3 revs high but the 3.5l TLs 4th gear runs strong, especially with precats!

Good luck and report back!

 

4th gear in the 3.5's sucks...1st through 3rd is the best.

 

4th gear in the 6MT pulls very strongly. I used to think it was all in peoples' heads until I ran a 6MT V6 Altima Coupe with I/E. We were fairly close in 3rd, but I pulled easily in 4th.

 

4th is super fun on my end.

 

My bad, I thought he had an auto.

 

haha yeah if I had an auto I wouldn't even try to keep up with my buddy's soon-to-be-new-to-him M3, lol

 

Considering you put down 265 on a Mustang and have ~200lbs of weight reduction, I'm gonna bet you are going to be basically dead even, if not pull very slightly. Those M's have some serious top end though...

 

Yeah the M definitely has a ton more top-end, but I don't think we'll get there. Neither one of us is gonna push it much past 110 on a public road. Realistically there will be traffic coming up pretty quickly once we hit 80 or 90 and we'll have to shut it down. I think that top-end gap would only start to widen after 4th gear, which we'll probably never surpass on the street lol.

But I got my gopro camcorder yesterday so I will record a bunch of pulls.

 

^ Oh, when I said 'top end' I meant after 4rd gear. Their 4th is very strong. In for vids.

 

The wifey got to pick the movie we're watching Friday night, got to be a chick flick so... In for Vids Good luck

 

Seeing as it's an 02 M3, was the oil pump replaced?

 

From what I have seen stock M3's run at the track, I am going to say he would beat you from a dig through the 1/4 mile. From a roll I think your TL-S 6MT will pull him with your mods.

This all being said with equal drivers skill. Good luck, be safe

 

from a roll you should out edge him no doubt!! being that your are 6mt and having driven both M3 wheter SMG or 6mt which btw what is his? My prediction is from a roll even thru top end you will have him given you are a strong driver......That 4th gear in the TL-S is no joke **cough cough** only 6mt I am talking here...4th in auto well enough said on that lol! Def get videos!

 

The M3 is much like a Honda, high revs and no low end torque. The reason why he would take you off the line is because RWD > FWD from a dig. I've never run a Type S with your mods, so I can't comment, but make sure you are trapping 104-106 if you wanna run with a stock E46 from a roll.

 

well, the bad news is we left Indiana at about 4 p.m. on Friday to head back to Wisconsin, so we ran into quite a bit of traffic and didn't really get any good opportunities to open it up.

The speed limit where we were was 70 and given the time of day, if we tried to slow down it was a recipe for a rear-end collision.

SO, that being said, we only got 1 half-decent run from about 70 to maybe 105 - he pulled half a car length in 3rd, but once in 4th the M3 didn't gain any more ground at all.

It's a pure 6mt M3, by the way. No SMG transmission. I drove the car yesterday and I am 100% sure the reviews of the car that tested the standing 1/4 mile at 13.4 in the 6mt were accurate. It's a quick car. I can keep up in the TL but I'm going to go out and say that if you don't have a heavily modified type-s manual, or a supercharged base TL, then there is no chance of a race even being remotely close between the two cars.

anyways, we'll be looking in the next week to get some legit runs in and I will report back once I figure out how to edit video, although it won't quite be the same because we already installed the aFe intake on his car last night.

 

^ They don't gain much with bolt ons from what I've heard. It shouldn't make that much of a difference.

 

^I may be wrong, but IIRC the CSL M3 has 360hp with just a CF air box (at 5k a pop!) & a tune (alpha N) on just under 3000 lbs. My point is you can easily get more power out of these, but you end up spending more money than going FI.

 

2 cars by 4th if you have a passenger and start from a stop. Dead even if you are a 6 speed and go from a 2nd gear roll.

a train if you're automatic.

 

Even though there were no Friday night vids, good call keeping it safe and waiting for better conditions. Anxious to see the results with the new mod on the M3 and curious to see what your next mod will be lol.

 

with winter around the corner I'm done modding for the year, but when Spring rolls around I'm planning on doing stage 1 cams, 3.7 manifold/TB, and runner pnp.

cams I will do for sure right away because stock ECU can handle it - I'll be a bit more precarious adding in everything else after that, though - I'm not convinced that I won't need a JnR ECU.

 

i think this is realistic, and yes I'm 6 speed. I expect from a dig is where bigger gaps will come. From a roll I kept it pretty close from 70-100. I really want to get a pull from 40 to 110.

 

This is true. There's less untapped potential than say in a J series, being that they were 11.5:1, had a ridiculously high flowing stock induction and exhaust system and were tuned right to the ragged edge from the factory. I mean, the LS1 in the C5 Vette had 2.5 more liters and was only making 12-17 more horsepower.

The Dinan Stage 2 had an airbox, airflow meter, bored TB's, muffler and a re-flash and it was only rated 28 hp over stock. Not sure what a header will do for one, but I'm sure the stock one is pretty efficient already.

And the outcome from that short race is roughly what I expected. Props for keeping within half a car.

 

Good idea staying NA and building in stages. Wish I built my motor first. As you've probably read, you should see some good gains from stage 1 cams, 3.7 manifold/TB, and runner pnp. As far as the JnR ECU, there may be easier to work with options. I think there is a new FIC out that offers the same tuning capabilities but I'm not sure.

 

yeah I'll definitely be keeping my eye on FIC options over the next 5 months. If I have to go AEM then I will, but I guess only time will tell.

We went out tonight for a joyride and I got some better video. We did one pull from 5 mph to 40 as he braved to turn traction control off, and then we got one pull from a dig at an on-ramp to the freeway but I had to flub the launch because the onramp is only about 300 yards long before it merges to 1 lane. I was pretty confident he'd still be ahead by at least a car length, but didn't want to risk it.

He had a couple feet on me in the 5-40 roll, I got him on a good shift into 2nd there. With a gimp launch at the onramp he had probably 2 car lengths on me but had to shut it down in 3rd gear.

I need to learn how to edit video, like basic shit - just need to know how to cut certain clips out because I basically have a 50 minute video from tonight just chillin'.

So if anyone has any pointers or knows good software to use (and no i don't have a Mac), let me know.

I'll try to compile a bunch of clips by the end of the week.

 

Download Windows Movie Maker, it's simple to use and edit video.

 

what did u take out of your car to lose 200lbs btw?

 

^ This.

And if I were you, I'd get the 3.7 manifold/TB/runners before cams. Cams are a great mod but you will without a doubt see more power once the manifold/TB is opened up (the J series loves big TBs). My 3.0 responded very well to the 3.7 combo and I'm sure the 3.5 will make even more power.

 

rear seats, kick panels, rear air bags, rear seat belts, everything in the trunk, floor mats, spare tire, engine bay plastic covers, XLR8 mounts, UR pulley, AEM intake, front and rear bumper (the actual metal bumpers, not the shroud), front and rear (trunk) damper, some carpeting, driver foot rest, and a 1/4 tank of gas. I may have missed a couple things in that list.

I have a list at home with a total of about 337 pounds to remove. So still to come would be lightweight battery, removing rear interior door panels, glovebox delete, and a few other things.

I'm not going all out because this is my daily and I still want some creature comforts, so a/c stays, the stock front seats will stay for comfort and heated leather in the winter, navi, stereo, etc. Basically I'm trying to keep the front cabin area as much intact as I can.

 

Who do you think gave me the idea for the 3.7 manifold in the first place?

I agree with you on the gains, I just wasn't 100% sure if my stock ECU would handle all the increased air flow appropriately.

It'll definitely happen though, I really want to work the intake over. I would love to get all the intake stuff done as a winter project but sadly I'm selling one of my properties to fund a down payment on a house for the family and I'm pretty sure my wife would go ballistic at this point if I spent anything significant before that happens lol

 

Glad I could help I figured before you throw the ECU completely out of wack with the cams, you could see some nice gains from the manifold/TB. You have similar mods that I had prior to the manifold install so I don't see why you can't gain ~20+whp with a larger intake as well.

I'd recommend getting the ZDX throttle body and getting it maxbored. Also, you should get the runners at this point as well.

 

Damn, that's a lot of stuff, lol. Makes me wonder why you bought a TL in the first place. Not bashing at all, but isn't it kinda weird when people open up your sedan and there's no back seat there? haha. I shouldn't talk because I drive around without a back seat as well, but my car is a 2 door and I'm not a taxi driver, so I never had anyone in my back seat anyway.

I am interested in what carpeting you took out? Is your trunk bare metal? What does the foot rest weigh? I can't imagine it being heavier than 1 lb..

Interesting setup for sure, I hope you don't misconstrue my post, I like the setup and you're making me think you'd do better than I originally thought against the E46 M3, especially if you go the route Sonnick did with the bigger TB and 3.7L manifold, also ported lower runners as well can't hurt.

Kinda wish you lived closer honestly, I wouldn't mind giving ya a run.

 

I understand, lol.

You'll laugh but honestly, the sick truth is because I'm so addicted to cars, I saw gutting a good part of the TL as a good way to force me to keep the car and run it into the ground - in the past I've tended to flip my cars every couple of years. I love the TL-S but I also would love about 20 other cars, lol. This keeps me honest.

and yeah, like you i never have any need for more than 1 passenger, so meh. It really is like dead space to me. I never haul anything (use the SUV if I need to), never even carry groceries or anything really. I use my car to drive to work, go to the track, and tool around for funsies.

trunk is bare metal now, yes. Rear carpeting taken out up to the underside of the front seats. The footrest weighs 1.4 pounds, you are just about correct lol.

I wish there was a good RSX-S to run around here, lol. My buddy with the M3 also has an RSX-S (actually the 2nd one he's owned now that I think of it), but he just slapped an intake on it which is meh. Now he's got the M3 in the garage so I walk out every day and shake my head as he daily drives the RSX not even 1 week after he got his hands on the M3 he's wanted to 8 years lolol.