pby

Hi all,

After checking out the TL at the dealership for the first time, I went next door to see the new 2004.5 S40. WOW! It looks even better than the 3-series. (Yes, I admit the 3-series looks better than the TL.)

Now the price difference between the TL w/nav and a comparably loaded S40 T5 is not very significant (ANOVA test, p < 0.05) :lol2: The same can be said for performance: 0-60 mph for the T5 (5AT) is about 6.7 seconds. (sorry, cannot recall reference)

So the only quantifiable difference between the two that I can find is the long-term reliability. But its a volvo...how bad can it be? They use to advertise owners with cars exceeding 200~300k, didn't they?

Have I lost my mind?

stealth

the tl looks way better than a volvo, unless ur a soccer mom, but even then it's hard to say.

Flanagan

You're going to be paying an awful lot of money for a glorified Ford Focus. The S40 is based on the same platform as the Mazda 3 and the upcoming Focus. It bows to the TL in terms of engine power, fuel economy, size, equipment, quality, and, when built up to include option which are standard on a TL, price, IIRC. It's 3-series size, whereas the TL is 5-series size.

Lokius

get the s60 r, the new s40 is a nice looking car, but I wouldnt trade it for my tl. the s60r, on the other hand is a complete rocket ship, and is m3 comparable I hear.

GoBig

All I can say is the '04 TL rocks. If you want a Volvo get it...it's a matter of preferences. Just make sure you test drive both before you buy because there's no turning back.

neuronbob

pby, you must have been at Motorcars Acura/Volvo, where I purchased my car. I happen to also think the new S40 T is a very hot-looking car. The big diff is the size. The S40 is definitely a smaller car, with not that much back seat room. The interior of the TL (where you'll spend your driving time int he car), is far better in terms of materials quality. Other than that,....I agree with GoBig. test drive both and report back to us! Of course I'm biased twoard the TL, but the new S40T wasn't out when I bought six months ago.

If you buy the TL and use that dealership, talk to Bill Lang. And tell him you talked to a neurologist about the car, he'll figure out who you're talking about.

Pices312

neuronbob,
Can you help me? I get these really bad headaches whenever I bang my head against the wall!! I also get them when I talk to my wife about her not driving my car!! LOL

neuronbob

ROFLMAO

Just tell your wife not to touch your car like I do.

TorontoTL

The new S40 is very nice looking. I agree with neuronbob, the TL and the S40 are not even close when it comes to interior room. They are in completely different classes. The TSX even has a larger interior especially in terms of the back seat. From what I've heard the interior materials are no match for the TL's. However, if you want a smaller car that has alot of power, ie more than the TSX, it is definitely a good looking car to consider.

jdone

Don't get the S40, wait for the V50 T-5 AWD.

Oswald Vater

I don't think that you can compare European reliability to the Japanese. In this the TL wins hands down. However, I must admit that I ALMOST ended up with an S60R. But even at a substantial discount (37,500 for a 45,500 MSRP car) I didn't want to pay the extra $20 per month for 3 extra months. The S40 is nice but it is too small for my taste. FWIW

JeffS

Tell her to touch you, not the car.

You might also want to consider the resale values too. I would assume the TL to have a higher one. Anyone know??

2obsessed

I understand the new s40 is supposed to be much better than the previous one, but I have the previous V40, and it is not even close to the TL. Also, Volvo's reliablity is way below Acura's. Those old tales of super durable Volvo's are somewhat dated. Mine has been in the shop a few times, and my in-laws have an 850 turbo, that after 120k/mi, were told the engine and tranny are toast, and car is basically worth nothing. Also, I can't get over the NVH of those cars with the 5-cylinder. That thing vibrates like a truck engine. Things may have changed recently, but drive them back to back before you jump into a Volvo based on it's looks and reputation for durability.

Tristero

Not a soccer mom, but my spouse would not agree. She much prefers TL (BMW and Infiniti exteriors) to Volvo or A4.

BTW, my three-year old likes the way Volvo sounds, but keeps asking me about my test drive of the "vulva." Sadly, my wife and I laughed too hard the first time she asks, so its a frequent repeat.

I test drove one, though not as seriously as the other cars I shoped. (I am shopping at Motorcars Acura like Neuronbob and they sell the volvo too). It didn't overwhelm. The handling was not as crisp as TL or TSX, and the ride less mannered the TL. I put it in the category of the Audi A4 3.0, not the TL.

billk86

I tested the s40 before picking up my TL. I know I am a bit biased, but I liked TL's ride much better.

Nodoze2004

I was seriously looking into the S60R when it first came out, but after closer inspection, and the dealer not letting ANYONE test drive the car I walked.

one thing to look out for in Volvos is resale value. While the trim level is on par with BMW, AUDI, etc the resale value is not!! My wife works in the business and she advised me to stay away from Volvo.

Chilli

Only $20 a month differrence and only 3 more months. You've got to be kidding me. For this small difference, even a Volvo hater like me might pony up the difference for the Swede.

pby

Thanks for all the insightful comments.

I agree that the comparison between the two cars may not seem rational, as comon sense suggests that the 04TL is far better than the T5 in all respects. [Interior/Exterior styling excluded]

I will test drive these cars in the near future and try to figure out which one I will get. Though I wish there was a way to get a palpable comparison of the long-term reliability of these autos. Considering the positive reports of the current gen. S60, how far off could the S40 be. After all, they are both built in Begium and the latter is being pumped out of a brand new factory.

While I do not want to make my decision on subjective factors (e.g., styling), the T5 looks very tight!

Neuronbob, could you prescribe some ECT? I will make sure to drop your 'description' the next time I'm there at Motorcars. BTW, does your TL have the Motorcars sticker in the back? If so, did you get a discount for having them desecrate your ride?

neuronbob

I took the sticker off the back of the car as soon as I got home, didn't want it ruining my paint. Sigh, no discount, however. I took the rear license frame off, too.

As for the ECT.....>>>ZOT!<<< Luckily, as a neurologist, that's the best I can do for you.

bzss7x

Volvo - Don't do it...

I'm trading my 02 S60 T5 for an 04 TL. The volvo has had a host of small but irritating problems.

- Alignment has never been right (Various sets of tires, rotations, adjustments)
- Power Mirrors go nuts when a key fob is pushed (This is a software issue IMO, but I've not heard of an update.)
- Strut Mount broke
- Bad rattle from glove box (fit is not right)
- Trunk catches on trim when it is opened
- Radio (although it sounds great) is hard to use (no preset buttons)
- Sunroof mount rattles inside roof
- Two coolant leaks (both fixed by dealer)

As you can see, these are mostly trim problems. The engine is great, but these other problems drive me crazy! I have lost all faith in Volvo quality. If for some reason, you don't get the TL, look somewhere other than Volvo. It's just not worth it.

caball88

volvo = ford (not that its bad) but 200-300K mileage was with the older volvos before ford bought them out.

2004MT6TL

I just traded my 2004 Volvo S60 T5 for the TL last week, go for the TL, it's the same price and a hell of a lot nicer!

Oswald Vater

No, I'm not kidding but in the long run I felt that the TL would serve me more reliably and comfortably with better resale than the R. Besides, when they are discounting them at 8k off the sticker, it makes you wonder. The dealer was under invoice and into his holdback he was so desperate to get rid of it!

2004MT6TL

The sticker on my 2004 S60 T5 was 36k and it was redused to 30k out the door.

porsche911

I got rid of my 99 S80 T6 for the 2004 TL. Best thing I ever did. My Volvo was costing me a TON of money. Coolant leak, O2 sensor, strut springs, etc. I spent over 3K this year until I got my TL a month ago. I have heard that the 99 & 00 S80 have had many problems. I'll never buy a Volvo again. I had a Legend before the S80, & went to the dark swedish side, but now I'm back!

copter

Volvo :bigun2: :banghead:

I wouldn't be caught dead in a Volvo!!!!

pby

Surprising how extremely negative some responses have been in regards to the reliability of a Volvo. A VW, I can wholeheartedly understand, but it is afterall a "less-expensive" brand.

What's more frustrating is that no one I know owns a volvo, let alone know someone who does. Maybe that's sign...

conant

Hi all - I've been coming to this site for a couple months because I was dead set on buying the TL, which then switched to the Volvo 2004.5 S40, and I just bought a TSX yesterday. Anyway, here is some input I can add. I am eligible for ford supplier x-plan pricing, which would have been invoice on the S40, as such, I was also treated very well at the dealership and given the keys to a T5 and told not to be gone all day. I ended up putting about 45 miles on it and left completely underwelmed. After the first test drive, 10 minutes, I left with the intent of buying with in a couple days, and what changed, after the second, was just a cramped and cheap feeling interior which pushed me away. I loved the engine and low end torque, I mean a lot, it felt much faster that the TL AT, and I will really really going miss that in the TSX, but the sides of my legs felt tight and the center stack, which I think is one of the greatest designs I've seen, doesn't offer much practicality. Bottom line, test drive a couple times to see if you can live in it.

David