DRA

My apologies for this long first post...

I've been browsing these forums for several weeks now looking for all the information I could find about the TL. Nice forums, extremely active so I hope I can get some feedback. I have searched the forums pretty extensively and see several recent threads that discuss comparisons on the cars I am considering for purchase within the next 3-4 weeks, mostly from flatfoot having switched from a TL to an M35X.

My situation: I have a 2000 BMW 540/6 speed sport. Bought it used so I inherited a number of problems with the cooling system, valve covers, etc. They have all been repaired (at extraordinary costs since it's a BMW) but it has left me looking for a new car. I love the performance of the bimmer - it's by far the best performance oriented car I have owned, I just don't trust the car from a reliability standpoint. This has eliminated a new BMW as an option for me - that and their interiors can't hold a candle to Acura, Lexus or Infiniti.

My budget is roughly $50k. I couldn't care less about the status associated with the car, nor that I spend right up to my budget limit. I used Consumer Reports to narrow my choices down to cars with high reliability and user satisfaction; the Acura TL and the Infiniti M35X are my front runners.

I drove a TL (both 6spd and auto) and loved the car. Solid feel, outstanding ergonomics - something the Germans could learn from - and visually appealing to me especially with the A-spec package. I would go with the auto since traffic has been killing me lately. I think I can get the Acura TL set up the way I would want for under $40K pretty easily.

The Infiniti M35X I test drove was a really nice car. Since I drove both the G35 and M35X back to back I determined that the M35X has a much better interior, fair to above average performance and is so quiet that I couldn't hear anything outside of the vehicle. It has virtually all the same features of the TL equipped the way I would want it. I can get an M35X for about $48K.

The G35 is not an option for me - the back seat space is too small and the interior quality (pop up nav screen especially) is a big turn off.

I know I'll get a TL bias here, which is fine because I really like the car, but I would really like any feedback you would provide.

Doubtit

Did you drive the RL? TL and M35X really not the same comparables.....

oppnyc

I own TL 2004 NAVI.
Short answer to your questions:
Acura TL is much faster and keeps the road much better.
Acura TL is built in USA = poor quality. TL is not luxury car for me and many others. It may be good in quality stand point for these who came from Dodge or Ford families.
Do search on this site and you will notice how many TL owners have problem with rattles inside cabin, seats issues, fading dashboard.
Engine, breaks and etc are very good in TL.

M35 is larger car. Quality is far better that TL.
1. Press doors in TL from inside and do the same in M35. Feel the difference
2. Put driver window down in TL and M35 and close the doors. You will hear the difference. TL sounds very cheap, windows shakes. You will not find such in real luxury cars.
But M35 is very slow car for me. I took two road tests and even in Sport Mode M35 does not come close to TL.

Performance - TL
Quality of cabin - M35
Mechanical readability is good for both.

PS: try Audi 6. It costs ~ 45-50 K depends on the load.
Audi 6 performs very well, still slightly less that TL, but it has 4X.
I know that Audi may have mechanical issues, but you never know - You may get good one.

Just my

tzakiel

I think your question is a simple one. Is the m35x interior and quiet ride worth $11k to you over the TL? You can get a TL with nav and a-spec for about 37,000. The body kit is available thru these forums' group buy for under $800 and suspension can be had for a good price too. In my opinion, after sitting in all the competition and doing a lot of research, you are getting way more than you pay for with the TL. Since you mention status/spending isnt the most important to you, I honestly believe you cannot go wrong with the TL. Plus if you have money left over for a-spec or mods, your car will be unique rather than a carbon copy.

DRA

I looked at the RL briefly but didn't see that it was that much better than the TL. The reviews on it were not exactly flattering, unlike the TL. Since all I can go by for myself is what a brand new car drives like in a test drive I feel the TL is a great car. My concern is the comments I have been reading regarding rattles developing. Don't know if that's an older 3G issue that has been resolved for the 2006 model year but I didn't hear any on the test drives I took.

I'll give the RL a closer look - thanks.

CL Platano

The M35x is an awesome car, the style has to grow on you but the interior is immaculate and ride is good too. I love all the cameras and the detail of all the interior up to quality of the rugs. Just like Tzakiel said is all the stuff worth 11k, you can easily add cameras to a TL w/ Navi. If you do get a M35x just make sure you get it with the lip kit otherwise it looks more weird without it. Good luck with your purchase you can't go wrong either way.

DRA

Thanks - this is what I am learning from the forums. It's so hard to determine that when you are at the dealership because the car is brand new and prepped.

I have scheduled a test drive of an M45 sport this afternoon. It's likely much higher than I want to spend but maybe they will cut me a great deal on it. I'll post feedback on that if anyone is interested.

DRA

Thanks - that's the main reason I am still considering the TL. I know that I could probably justify some mods beyond the A-spec to address the few things that the TL doesn't have.

chill_dog

This link will give you a list of all reviews of the TL. Most are user reviews from forum members; one thread (by neuronbob) is a listing of reviews by mags and reviewers.

https://acurazine.com/forums/search.php?searchid=289047

On this link, look at threads 2, 3, and 4 (info on m35x and comp to TL)

https://acurazine.com/forums/search.php?searchid=289049

Black_6spd

This statement is getting overused here on AZ. Not a single poster who brought up the whole "made in the USA vs. Japan" statement has any shred of evidence to back it up.

Although I drive a TSX that is made in Japan, I don't claim that it's quality is superior to a TL or even USDM Accord. Despite being made in Japan, my car has its share of rattles, squeaks, and clutch clicking.

Being an engineer for almost 10 years now has allowed me to learn the quality practices of the Japanese companies such as Toyota and Honda. Yes, they do design better quality through techniques they have perfected over the past few decades. However, those same practices are carried over to the U.S.-based plants with the same "design for quality" and mistake-proofing principles.

The rattling issue could be traced back to the fact that Honda's core competency has always been building efficient, economical cars. Design of luxury cars is somewhat foreign to them. After owning Hondas pretty much my entire life, I'd have to profess that ALL of them have rattled especially in my Acura Integra. In comparison, my TSX is a actually a huge improvement in that area.

With either car, I really don't think you could go wrong. Just make sure you test drive and allow anyone else who might be sharing the car with you tag along. For me, my wife was a big part of my decision-making process along with the ease of using a baby seat.

Sit back and enjoy the new car buying experience.

neuronbob

Welcome to the board, DRA. The "built in USA" argument is way overused here, I agree with the above poster. To get a REAL idea of reliability, you can click on "2 year review" in my signature and this will give you my unbiased experience with my just over 2.5 year old TL. It's not a perfect car by any means, but the pros of purchasing this car far outweigh the cons. Please keep in mind that I bought my car the instant they were officially announced, so I have a very early build car. Even so, it has held up well enough that I'm not tempted to trade up to an '06 for the relatively "bug free" experience.

The M35x is an awesome car. I love it. It causes me to snap my head around nearly every time I see one on the road. The only thing (almost) better is an M45, which unfortunately doesn't come in AWD trim. I nearly upgraded last year after it was released, but ultimately decided to save the money and mod my TL.

It is true that the two cars are in slightly different classes, and that the TL is a bit smaller than the M. The interiors for both are high-quality. The ride in the M is...well....heavenly, though not as sporty as the TL, especially in A-Spec setup. The M is definitely a looker, but so is the TL.

At the end of the day, I decided that trading up would cost me more money than it was worth, and that's the main reason I didn't do it. I'll consider it when the TL is fully paid off in a couple of years, and if the next gen TL doesn't "do it" for me.

EDIT: Here's my 2.5 year revlew from last month. https://acurazine.com/forums/ramblings-12/happy-bday-2-photoshop-genius-man-makes-board-possible-134667/

russ0813

You shoudn't even have to ask!

Doubtit

05 TL here, for what it is worth, no rattles.............love it.

Dkrudop

Not sure about anyone else....but I am approaching 26K on my '04 TL and it's still tight as a drum.....no rattles, squeaks, etc. It's smooth, quiet, and a very enjoyable ride with a nice little "oomph" when you use the accelerator.

I would agree that to compare the TL with the M35 is oranges and apples. The G35 is much closer in class to the TL in just about every way.

IMHO, the RL is flying under the radar, so to speak. It's a fine automobile, but it might just lack a "wow" factor to make people really stand up and notice. I think when people get around to discovering it, they're amazed at how good a car it is.

VtecTL

is the engine in the 04+ TL built in USA or Japan?

DRA

Very cool - I hadn't seen that in my previous searches. Thanks!

oppnyc

From what I know know:
Engine built in Japan
Car is assembled in USA
Correct me if I am wrong

Will Y.

Which car really floats your boat?? Get that one! If they both float your boat, get the less expensive one. You won't regret either the TL or M35 if you like them both (I don't like the current bulky, curved C-pillar look of the M, or the Lexus GS).

From the forum threads, it seems that the rattle issue was much more of an issue with the '04 TLs, decreasing in the '05s. My 05 has not had any body integrity rattles, although it infrequently will creak or click over a rough road (and may be from seat belt movement against door/seat, etc).

Rattles should not be part of the ownership experience! My experience with Hondas has been different and rattle-free-- my '88 Integra had no rattles for about 8 years after purchase (there has been a rare intermittent rattle now-- loose wire loom/clip under steering column). The '95 Civic never had any squeaks or rattles; the 2004 Odyssey now has an occasional rattle only on very rough roads (from the left sliding door which needs adjustment-- to be addressed at next dealer service).

oppnyc

Read this

and this

and this

next one

more

When I got my TL it was rattle free for several months and than it began to develop.
I fight my TL's rattles every day.
I took doors out, A, B pillars out. I am affraid that I have to remove whole dahsboard too.
My point is simple: if you get TL without rattles inside that TL is best car for the $$$
If you get TL with rattles than you will regter a lot.
50%50%

neuronbob

Actually, the only Japanese-sourced part is the transmission, and production of those is moving to Ohio too, IIRC. 65% of parts (according to my 2004 window sticker) are American, and most of those parts are locally sourced here in Ohio.

oppnyc

Thanks for the info.

oppnyc

Thanks for the info.

your_mom

I love my TL. It rattles and the seats do get butt prints, but it performance is good and it never leaves me stranded. Overall, I think it is a very good value for the money and I like Acura's philosophy of making navigation the only option.

If I had the money, I would consider M45. However, Nissan reliability is suspect compared to Honda or Toyota. After owning two domestic crapmobiles, reliability is very important to me.

oppnyc

PS: if you have mechanical issue with your car you just replace a part. Problem solved. Wit new cars is is free too. (first several years)
With rattles it is almost impossible, because these come from many locations and you can not change cheap plastic...

mrdeeno

https://acurazine.com/forums/showthr...bility+ratings

Nissan reliability may be suspect, but Infiniti reliability is no more suspect than any acura or honda.

Infiniti usually does better than both Acura and Honda in dependability/reliability ratings (these ratings are longer term and different from the initial quality ratings which rate only the first 90 days of ownership).

Nissan is lower because most of its models are built at a new plant in TN, while most infiniti's are still shipped from Japan or built in "old" plants.


Personally, if it was between the M35x or TL, i'd get the RL.

redman042

I was recently in the same position as you are now... I had narrowed my choices to the same two cars (though I was also considering the RL for a while), and ended up choosing the TL. We are very very happy with it.

I think the M is a good contender, but I didn't like interior nearly as much as the TL. The M has a strange dashboard design, cheap feeling switches on the steering wheel, and confusing nav/radio controls. I felt the nav voice commands were too cumbersome, though the nav seems more advanced than Acura's. I do like the exterior styling of the M, but prefer the TL a bit more. My perception is also that Acura makes somewhat more reliable cars than Infiniti (especially the drivetrain).

As for the squeak and rattle complaints, Acura made a lot of small improvements to the 2006 model that addressed these issues and also the torque steer issue that plagued the 04 and 05 models. Our TL is flawless so far.

Many people choose the M for the RWD. That's a personal preference and if you value RWD, go for the M. But for me it wasn't an issue. While I occasionally do a little performance driving, I'm not planning to drift through corners anytime soon, so I don't need RWD. The Acura gets great gas mileage for its size too, partially because of the FWD.

Finally, you can get a TL much cheaper than a comperably equipped M. We got our navi TL with the aero kit for less than $34k. I think you'll be in the low-40's for a comperably equipped M (but you'll need to do the research because I haven't looked in a while.

Good luck!

Dr.P

I can't believe it but it's disgusting and the way Acura tries to play it down when you call them about it. Thank God for BBB

Raheel

If you are not in a hurry the 07 G35 will be out around October and November, with more features and a lower price than a M35, and The 07 TL Type-S Might be something interesting to consider also

DRA

Not in a huge hurry, though even with all the changes they are making the the G35 it's just got too small of a back seat - which is one of the reasons I like the TL. I have three kids, two in their teens, and going on a long drive in the G35 would be a challenge.

TSXmeister

Have you check out the 2007 Lexus ES350?....been seeing the ad alot lately in TV, seems pretty sharp looking car IMO.

chill_dog

Damn links are dead...guess you can't link the results of a search (learn something new every day!)...sorry about that...search the following criteria to get all the info you need:

TL - "review" in key words box, only in thread titles from drop down below it, select 3G forum on the right and uncheck the look in child forums box below

m35x - "flatfoot" in user id box, threads started by from drop down below it, select 3G forum on the right and uncheck the look in child forums box below

acuraz88

I agree.. With the discounts you can get on the RL.. I would go with the RL... I think the RL's interior is probably one of the best i've seen.

DRA

The Lexus ES looks like an egg to me - reminds me of an old Ford Taurus for some reason. That and the fact that the neighbor that I share a driveway with has one drops it out of contention for me. The IS350 is a beautiful car but has too small of a back seat. GS line is just too much money for what they deliver.

I just test drove the M45 Sport this afternoon. Excellent performance and the ride quality wasn't all that bad, though it would be hard for me to justify that car's price tag over the M35X. Also tried an M35 Sport while I was there; decent acceleration, fairly close to the TL but not quite in my mind. For a large car the M35 seems fairly tossable, especially with the Sport package.

I am going to try an RL on the way home from work this evening. Thanks to everyone for the feedback - it's been very helpful!

DRA

This review of the RL from Car and Driver didn't look too great:

C&D Long Term Test of the Acura RL

Oh well, can't go by a single review I guess.

leedogg

The TL is the best in its class, and I believe the M45 was rated best in its class. It really comes down this: Does the TL satisfy all your basic needs and requirements? If yes, then thats all you need. Why throw more money at a car if that money brings diminishing returns.

willieesco420

Where the car is made should not matter that much. Most of these cars are put together by machines. Machines in Japan, and machines in USA are still machines. I love infinitis. I have owned a j30, i30, and am selling my fx45. I also have owned a legend coupe, legend sedan, and I am also selling my 01 cl-s. I am selling both these cars to purchase an 07 TL, and a Kawasaki zx-10. Getting my speed and luxury in a couple of different boats. With that said, I think that Acura has surpassed Infiniti in the midsoze luxury area. I also think that in the flagship of the brands, Infiniti rules. You have to remember to compare apples to apples. If you do so, you will find the TL leaps and bounds above its competitors. Acurs should be given the props it deserves. Find me a better car for 35,000...

whatjones911

Actually the new G35 should have as much backseat room as the TL or more. Since you're not in a hurry just wait until the end of the year when the new G35 comes out and the refreshed TL as well with more power and features. If you are sure you want the TL wait until the 07 comes out because you will regret if you purchase a 06 TL

CSI

M35X is AWD, TL is FWD, M35X is more luxury, TL is younger, more sporty,

if u got that much money, why don't u try the AUDI A6? It's safe, it's just like a little tank...

and the AUDI quality and reliability now is much much better than before...

mrdeeno

Their quality was always up there, but their reliability has improved from very bad to pretty bad...which means they still suck compared to the alternatives available.

As for the current models, there's no reliability history to base the current models off of except for the bad history.

This was the only reason I stayed away from Audi. there are so many alternatives that have better reliability records.

If you're gonna lease, i wouldn't see a problem since the lease is usually in the warranty period. But if you plan on keeping for long term, I'd wait until time proves or disproves Audi's reliability.

But if you're going to look between an M35x, TL, and A6, then compared to the others, the A6 would most likely be dismally unreliable.

gurneyeagle

Same here. '05 TL 5AT, no rattles, no quality issues. I also get 30 mph on my 85 mile round trip commute.

Keep in mind that this Board, as well as the others, are a small percentage of owners who are hyper-enthusiasts. We tend to bitch more because we notice more.

I could nitpick any car to death if I wanted too. At some point you have to just give it up and enjoy the ride. Rattles? Turn up the stereo!


Seriously, The M35X is a nice car, the M45 even better. A friend at the office bought one within days of me purchasing my TL. After parking side-by-side for a few weeks, I think she is the one with buyer's remorse.

Personally, I don't want a car any lrger or heavier than a TL. If Acura had dropped the TL engine in the TSX, I'd have bought it, no questions asked.