JamsanTL

Hey All - I was wondering what all of you 6spd guys shifted at? I'm looking for shift points that achieve the lowest gas consumption. Currently, I shift usually between 3600-3900 rpm in all gears, except when going from 5 -> 6. I typically go straight from 4 --> 6 when on the highway, as when 4th is around 3.8k rpm, its usually going 60+ (if I remember correctly), so I just go directly to 6th to avoid the extra shift. Is that a bad thing to do?

Thanks!

Black_05_TL_6SP

First, don't skip gears, its bad on the syncros in the transmission. As for shift points, it depends, for better fuel economy, I shift close to or shortly after 3000RPM. This normally puts me around 2200 RPM once shifted. This is something you will need to play with, as each driver is different.

Jason

Laxplaya11385

i shift around 2700 - 3000 rpms.

dezzzmond

The owner's manual has recommended shift points. I think thats the best way to go for gas mileage.

I shift around 3000 rpm for regular driving.

stevenr

re-iterate and agree. SKip shifting is very hard on the Synchros. You can easily damage them, especially on a close ratio transmission like the TL.

JamsanTL

I've probably skipped shift 2-3 times only, so it's good i asked that question now, before doing any further damage. I'll check the manual later (I started reading it, but haven't gotten as far as the MT yet), and either follow those reccomendations, or shift around 3k, and see how that works out.

Thanks for the suggestions!

SouthernBoy

The only time you will put excess stress on the synchronizers when skip shifting is if you start your shift as soon as you disengage the clutch (which is what most people do anyway) because the synchros will have to slow down the drive gears to match the driven gears of the higher gear. To avoid this excess stress, you would have to wait until the RPMs drop to where they should be in the chosen higher gear. Unfortunately, this takes some time and means you are slowing down while you wait. It also means you have no engine power getting to the drive wheels.

So I agree that under most all conditions, you should avoid skips shifting for these stated reasons. I know, we will once again here arguments about some 'Vette trannies that skip shift automatically for you, but what do you want to bet that there is software in their ECUs that "knows" when to make the shift based upon engine speed, wheel speed, and gear selection?

SouthernBoy

Actually, the manual transmission in the TL is not a true close ratio unit and for one simple reason. There is a significant ratio spread between 1st and 2nd gears. The remain forward gears are relatively close, but with a wide first, this fact negates the label of "close ratio" for our transmissions.

SouthernBoy

It's almost not possible to recommend a fixed RPM at which to shift into subsequent higher gears since there are so many variables involved. What is the traffic like at that particular time? What is the speed limit and the speed of the traffic like? Are you starting off from an incline? Do you need to merge because your lane disappears shortly? Is your A/C on? Do you have passnegers weighing down your car? I could go on with this, but you get the point, I'm sure.

In general, you will need to take first gear higher up the RPM scale than the rest of the gears because the ratio between first and second gears is fairly wide. So for argument's sake, let's say we shift at 3500 RPM for the 1-2 shift. Once the car is in movement, the rest of the shifts can be made with less RPMs, unless of course, one of the variables mentioned above needs to be factored into your shifts.

Enjoy.

Spiritman

Don't skip gears? I have driven a stick since the 50's. Skip shifted all the time. Well, alot. Never had a bit of troubles. Clean gear lube. Take your time between gears (when skipping). NOT A PROBLEM!

______________________________________________

As for shit points it's when the tac. goes red! Like 6800? Right. This car can take a little of this kind of use......

ussi

iTrader: (1)

Does this 'skip shifting' apply to down shifting also???.. I go from 6->4 and 5->3 all the time

SouthernBoy

How do you downshift? Answer this question.

Do you release your foot from the throttle, depress the clutch pedal, move the shifter from 5th to 3rd, then slowly start releasing the clutch?

I you answered "yes" to the above, you are most definitely NOT downshifting properly even if you are not skipping gears. If you do this and DO skip gears when downshifting, you are making the problem that much worse with you downshifting.

SouthernBoy

If you wait for the drive and driven gear speeds to match before completing the shift and engaging the clutch, there will be no appreciable wear on the synchronizers. However, if you rev the engine up a bit in, say 2nd gear, then skip to 4th right away, you most definitely WILL be putting the synchonizers through more wear than normal.

Remember how synchronizers work and what they do. They act like little clutches to match drive and driven gears so that the dog teeth can smoothly mesh. The greater the difference in RPMs between these two entities the greater the effort required by the synchronizers to mesh.

jennarocks

hmmm... the only time i've skip shifted is when im running through the gears to usually 4th and im up to about 65-70, so i'll shift straight to 6th. Usually i will have hit VTEC in 4th and then at about 3500 RPM or so, i will shift to 6th. whaddya think.

Midnight_TL

this is my 2nd month driving a manual...and sometimes i start off in 2nd gear at let's say a light or something. is that okay? also, i know there's a thread by southernboy somewhere but i'm kinda lazy to search it right now (hehe), so here it is.

i haven't stalled or done the super jerky thing in like 1.5 months (i got my TL 2 months ago) but every now and then, i think i'm releasing the clutch too quickly because i feel a slight lunge when i start off or shift from 1st to 2nd. every gear after 2nd is smooth as cake...can somebody out there please be a good samaratan and explain exactly how you start off at a light for a super smooth start?

i find that i'm reving it up to around 2000 rpm's and then slowly releasing on the clutch...that works most of the time, but i'm curious to see if there's a "right" way or "better" way. sorry for the long post. thanks!

rimike

I can start off smooth in 1st, but no matter what I do 1st to 2nd is always rough.

Midnight_TL

how long have you been driving manual? yea most of the time i'll get a nice smooth start and i'll be like "hell yea!!!!" and then once i throw that thing into 2nd....it just bursts my bubble. rarely will i start off smooth and shift to 2nd smoothly. those are what i consider "good days"

ussi

iTrader: (1)

Its usually when i cruising in a higher gear then decide i want to take off so i just dropping it in a lower gear and gun it.
In the situation you described what i've been doing is 'rev matching' but don't do this that often - press clutch,move to neutral,tap the gas,press clutch,move to lower gear.

Black_05_TL_6SP

This maybe true, but how often do you shift from 1st to 3rd. The problem is when you skip 3rd while shifting from 2nd or 3rd to 5th. Things that fall in that range where it is still a close ratio.

The other thing about the ECU in the car. When shifting from and given gear, the car will hold the proper RPM for ~three seconds after you depress the clutch, allowing for proper syncro speed. If you haven't noticed, go try it. This is why it is so important not to skip shift.

Jason

Formula 350

First... I only thought there were syncros on the first four gears.. not 5th or 6th... am I wrong??

Second... if you want to shift for gas mileage.. shift at 2500 or even 2300.. I have done that a couple of times... you do have a problem with this in first, but not the other gears.. I averaged 30 mpg in mixed driving.. normally I get 24 to 26.. so short shifting will give you good gas mileage..

rimike

I have been driving manual transmissions for 20 years, I have been driving this manual for 3 days.

SouthernBoy

6th gear at 60 MPH equates to 2000 RPM right on the nose. You're close.

SouthernBoy

No, you should never start off from a dead stop (or even a very low speed) in second gear. That's why you have first gear.

And starting off at 2000 RPM with a slow clutch release (which you would probably need to do at that engine speed) is not a good thing (unless you're looking for a more agressive launch). Try to keep the R's down to between 1200 and 1500 RPM and get the clutch our sooner.

The reason you jerking the launch is two-fold: the TL clutch and you. The clutch pedal on the TL has a relatively short travel and an even shorter takeup. This plus the fact that the distance from the point of initial engagement to that of enough pressure to move the car is quite short. This results in the jerkiness you are experiencing. Once you get used to it, you'll actually like and enjoy the setup we have with the manual TL.

Here's the writeup you mentioned. You should read this for some of the pointers you are looking for.


================================================== ==



Note: As it says, this is a collage of various postings I have made over the past one and a half years on the altimas.net website. So you are likely to see redundancy as well as a few other items of disarray. But enjoy and I hope you learn something.




PROPER MANUAL TRANSMISSION DRIVING TECHNIQUES

What follows is a collection of writings which I have posted at various times on this website in an effort to help answer some questions regarding the proper manner in which a manual transmission should be operated. While there are certainly many ways to drive a car with a manual transmission, there is really only one correct way. I was most fortunate to have learned these techniques while I was still in my teenage years. In so doing, I was able to avoid developing entrenched habits before they became really bad habits and difficult to correct. It is my hope that this helps you learn what I have learned and perfected over the years. If you do, you will reap the rewards, both financial and in the knowledge that you have mastered a technique that few do in their lifetimes. Have fun!

Under normal driving situations (not racing), when you start out from a standing start, you do so with the lowest possible RPMs, get the clutch out to full engagement as soon as you can while adding throttle. If you do this correctly, the transition will be smooth and seamless, and the wear on your clutch disk, pressure plate, release bearing, and flywheel will be minimized.

If properly designed (sufficient size and clamping pressure, etc.), and properly installed with no defects (correct torque, non-faulty equipment, alignment, etc.), then the next, and most important, factor to the life of the clutch assembly is the operator.

THERE IS ABSOLUTELY NO REASON WHY A CLUTCH CANNOT LAST THE LIFE OF THE ENGINE UNDER NORMAL DRIVING CONDITIONS.

When I speak of engine life here, I am referring to life before a serious teardown or part replacement such as a timing chain (200,000+ miles) or headwork. If you cannot get at least 100,000 miles out of a clutch, you are doing something terribly wrong. Obviously, racing and other extreme conditions such as towing constitute a whole different approach and, as such, do not come under this.


Don'ts:

Do not use any more engine speed (RPMs) than absolutely necessary to get the car rolling in first gear.

Do not hold the car on a hill with the clutch.

Do not wait for a traffic light to turn green with the transmission in gear and the clutch depressed.

Do not rest your foot on the clutch while driving.


Do not ride the clutch in any gear (obviously you will to a small degree in first to start off).

Do not down shift by just removing your foot from the gas, moving the shifter into a lower gear, then releasing the clutch slowly.


Do's

Start off smoothly and with low engine speed, and shift in such a manner that if you had a passenger on board, they would not even notice the shifts.

Hold the car on hills with the brakes.. that's what brakes are for. NEVER hold a car on a hill with the clutch. The amount of heat generated by doing this is incredible.

While waiting for a light to change or while sitting in heavy traffic, put the transmission in neutral and get your foot completely off of the clutch petal. Leaving it in gear for extended periods heats up and shortens the life of the release bearing. The normal condition of a clutch is fully engaged so it stands to reason that's where it should be most of the time.

Resting your foot on the clutch petal while driving engages the release bearing.. see above.

Avoid riding the clutch as much as is humanly possible. You will extend its life significantly.

If you do not know how to properly downshift, DON’T. Use the brakes (should do this anyway), and avoid downshifting any more than necessary. Improper downshifting is analogous to riding the clutch because that is what you are actually doing. Learn how to properly downshift first and save yourself the frustration of premature clutch failure.

Clutches are wear items, heavily affected by heat caused by friction. In a front wheel drive car, they are costly to replace, so unless you like shelling out a lot of money periodically for the replacement of these components, learn the correct way. Learn it until it becomes second nature like breathing.



I spent some time teaching a lady with whom I worked 10 years ago these techniques when she purchased a new '92 Honda Accord LX. When I last spoke with her, she had well over 140,000 miles on the original clutch with no signs of slippage. So I'm not jerking anyone's chain here. Learn to operate a manual transmission correctly and you will reap the rewards by saving a lot of money. Plus you will be one of the few who know how to do this right.

I don't mean to set myself up here as some kind of guru because I am not. But I have been driving vehicles with manual transmissions for over 40 years. I have spent the time to perfect the process into an art form because when done correctly, that’s what it is. When I sold my '88 Mustang LX 302CID, it was 6 years old and had 77,000 miles on it. When the buyer drove it, he asked me when I replaced the clutch because to him, it felt very positive. I told him that I had never replaced it and that it was the original unit. I added that it wouldn't make any sense to replace a clutch after only 77,000 miles since that is not very much wear. He had a little bit of a hard time believing this, but he did buy the car. Three months later, he called me up to let me know how much he liked the car and to tell me had had not wrapped it around a tree. He again asked about the clutch and I again told him that it was the original clutch.

I used to own a 1966 Chevelle SS396/360HP. I was the original owner of the car. For a period of about 2 years, I was street racing the car frequently on the weekends. At 83,000 miles when I sold it, it would still break traction in all four gears and the clutch had no slippage. It was tight and strong. Now granted, American cars have traditionally had stronger clutches than Japanese cars. This is changing because the Japanese are putting larger and stronger (torque) engines in their cars.



Downshifting

Ah yes, downshifting. If I had to name just one facet of manual transmission errors-of-operation, this would probably be it.

To understand how to operate a manual transmission, you have to know how the clutch assembly and transmission work, and I am going to take the assumption that most do on this forum. I will only clarify synchronizers. They serve to match the speed of the gears in the transmission as the shifter is moved to a given gear. Now for downshifting.

Let's say you are in fourth gear and you are approaching a stop sign, so you decide to downshift from fourth gear into third. What most people do is just remove their foot from the throttle, depress the clutch while moving the shifter from fourth to third, then start releasing the clutch slowly until they achieve full engagement. If you do this, what you are actually doing is riding the clutch in third gear. After all, the engine has returned to idle (or close to it), you get into third, then just ease the clutch out which pulls the engine from idle up to the RPM's at which it will operate at whatever speed you are traveling in third gear. Here is the correct way to do this in steps that I will break down in a moment.

Raise your foot off of the throttle.

Depress the clutch.

Start the shifter up into third.

As you pass through the neutral gate, let the clutch out a bit (doesn't have to be all the way) while at the same time blipping the throttle to increase engine speed BEYOND that which it will operate in the chosen lower gear.

Depress the clutch again.

Engage the chosen lower gear.

Let the clutch out while adding throttle.

As the engine RPM's decrease they will be met by the engaging clutch and opening throttle.

This should be a simple, smooth, fluid motion and you will know you've done it right if there is no jerking as the clutch comes out in the last step. Now for some details.

As you move into the neutral gate with your foot off of the throttle, the engine RPM's will be returning to idle. This is the point at which you want to blip the throttle a bit while at the same time engaging the clutch some. You want to get the engine turning faster than it will when you are in the lower gear you have chosen. The reason is that you want to spin the gears up to a speed that equals that at which they will be operating when you finally release the clutch in your downshift. If you do this right, there is no clutch slippage because the engine and the gears in the transmission will be spinning at the same or nearly the same RPM's. No slippage means you will get into gear with full engagement of the clutch sooner and with virtually no wear. To best understand this, you really need to know how a clutch assembly and transmission work together to deliver power from the engine to the drive wheels.

This takes a lot of practice, but if you get it down, you will be heads and shoulders above just about anyone else who drives a car with a manual transmission. You will begin to notice the mistakes other are making when they drive. Learn from their mistakes and it will both save you money and make you a far better driver.

So it's in with the clutch, start the shifter into the chosen lower gear, while passing through the neutral gate, blip the throttle and at the same time engage the clutch a bit to spin up the gears, then back in with the clutch as you get into the chosen gear, then finally release the clutch in one smooth operation.

Here's another little tip. Say you are waiting at a light for the green and your transmission is in neutral like it should be with your foot completely off of the clutch petal. When the light turns green, instead of just depressing the clutch and pushing the shifter up into first, pull the shifter partially into a higher gear first, such as second or third. The gears in those selections are not spinning as fast as the gears in first. By starting the shifter into a higher gear before you go to into first gear, you will cause less wear on the synchronizers and they will last far longer because they do not have to stop gears which are spinning at a higher speed. For cars which do not have synchronized reverse, definitely do this and you will not experience the grinding affect when shifting into reverse.

Say you are driving normally, shifting up through the gears to the one in which you wish to be for cruising. As you disengage the clutch and move the shifter to the next higher gear, you might notice a slight resistance just before you finish the shift. What you feel is the synchronizer for that gear forcing the drive gear(s) from the input shaft and the gears selected to "mesh". That is to say, their speeds are forced to equalize so that as they engage, there is no grinding and no damage to the gear teeth. That said, we can move to double clutching.

Double clutching was a technique that came about when earlier manual transmissions did not have synchronizers. If you did not double clutch, you would experience some serious gear grinding when shifting.

If you did not have synchronizers in your transmission, you would have had two choices when shifting gears: (1) put up with some really serious grinding and damage/breakage to gear teeth, or (2) manually match the speed of the gears in each selected shift so that you would eliminate the problems just mentioned in #1.

Suppose you are traveling in second gear, the engine is turning at 2500 RPM, and you are getting ready to shift to third. At the road speed you are going, let's say that once in third, your engine would be turning at 1800 RPM. When you remove your foot from the gas, the engine is going to loose RPMs quickly and by the time you get into third, the engine might only be turning 1200 RPM. Without synchronizers, you would need to raise the engine back up to 1800 RPM in order for the gears to mesh. By blipping the throttle and at the same time letting the clutch out some when you are passing through the neutral gate, you will both increase engine RPM and increase gear speed. As the engine RPMs fall back off, they will reach a point at which you will be able to complete the shift.

Since for years, manual transmissions have been fully synchronized, there is no need whatsoever to double clutch when upshifting and I definitely recommend against this practice.

Now downshifting is much like this, only in reverse. In other words, you are going from a higher gear to a lower gear so if your engine was turning at 2500 RPM and you wanted to shift to second, You would want to blip the throttle enough to raise engine speed to perhaps around 3200 - 3500 RPM.

When you are upshifting, the RPMs fall off and most people find it pretty easy to adjust to this and to add throttle at the right time so that when the clutch comes back out, they have the proper RPM's for the gear selection/road speed.

However, most people downshift by (1) removing their foot from the throttle, (2) moving the shifter into the next lower (or chosen) gear, then (3) slowly releasing the clutch while adding little or no throttle. This is NOT the proper manner in which to downshift. What you are doing in effect, is riding the clutch in reverse. In other words, you probably wouldn't dare attempt to start your car off in third gear because you would have to add a lot of throttle and really slip the clutch to get the car moving. When you downshift like the example I just gave, you are doing something similar to starting off in a higher gear, though it does take more energy to get a car moving from a dead start. Now if you double clutch during the downshift, you are spinning up the gears and the transition to the next gear will be quite smooth.


Junkyard asked a question about the concept of “passing through the neutral gate”. You don’t stop or stay in neutral. You are just passing through, so to speak. In your second question, you said I had mentioned to put the car in neutral when downshifting. Not exactly. Try this with the engine off.

Put the car in fourth. Depress the clutch and shift to third and let the clutch out. Now do the same thing, only this time as you pass through the neutral gate, let the clutch out some or a good deal and blip the throttle, then clutch back in, get into third, clutch comes out for the final time. That is the movement you want.

Incidentally, blipping the throttle is just a little stab at the petal, enough to raise RPMs to the desired level. You do not want to be on the throttle long because you will be in the process of shifting. Yes, this does take a lot of practice and may not come easily for many, but it is the best way, in fact the only proper way, to downshift because it very significantly reduces clutch and synchronizer wear (especially clutch), and once you get the hang of it, you will be able to do it quite fast.

The bottom line to all of this folks is to match engine speed to wheel speed in a given gear, and to do it in such a manner as to eliminate undue trauma to your drive train. I do this all of the time and have been downshifting like this since my late teens. I actually learned it from a magazine article (as I can best recall). If you know how a manual transmission and clutch assembly operate, all of the components and how they perform together, you will understand the beauty of the process.

Oh the grinding noise Junkyard hears when he starts letting up the clutch too quickly is most likely due to not having fully engaged the gear teeth and they separate (pop out of gear). That or he actually begins engaging the gear teeth before the clutch is fully depress so there is still some flywheel/disk/pressure plate contact.


One of the things I noticed right off the bat on my SE was that the clutch began to engage much too close to the floor for me (a contributor to the problem Junkyard has had). It was starting to engage about 1 inch from the floor, so I adjusted it out to 2 inches and it is fine. If you do this, just make sure you have the required toeplay, otherwise you will prematurely wear out your release bearing.

The purpose of letting the clutch out some as you pass through the neutral gate is to spin the gears up in preparation for the speed at which they must be at for the lower gear selection. This will allow you to get into that gear very easily. When you depress the clutch, you disengage the crankshaft from the transmission. The gears in the transmission will begin to slow down. By letting out the clutch some (or completely) in the neutral gate, you once again, MOMENTARILY, engage the full drive train and get the gears spinning. Only this time since you have blipped the throttle, they'll be spinning faster. As they slow down from the higher speed, your clutch will be coming out for the final time with the transmission in gear and the mesh will be smooth.

Try it both ways. Do it first the way you do it and notice that you have to add a little bit of force to get the shifter into gear. That's because the synchronizers are doing their job of gear speed meshing. Now try it the way I outlined and if you do it right, you will have virtually no resistance as you slip the shifter into your chosen gear.

Instead of going right into first as the light starts to go green, try starting the shifter into second gear.. don't have to go all the way into gear, though it won't hurt. This slows the gears down just as though you had gone on into first, but it's much easier on the synchronizers. And you won't get the "crunch" you mentioned when you have to move quickly.


To prevent rollback; practice, practice, practice, practice.

One way to do this is to find a nice little hill someplace where you won't be a bother to anyone. Take along some masking tape and mark off two sections with the tape a foot apart. Your goal is to keep the car from coasting back more than 1 foot.. of course you do not use the clutch to hold the car.. use the brakes. As you learn to do this, find another hill a little steeper. And so on, and so on.

SouthernBoy

You're almost there with your rev-matching as you have describing doing. As you pass through the neutral gate and as you "tap the gas", you should release the clutch some at the same time. This will spin up the drive gears and help them match the speed of the driven gears so your mesh will be smooth and the wear on the synchronizers will be virtually nill.

SouthernBoy

Yes I know about the ECU holding the R's for a few seconds. I never use this "feature" since it slows the shift down and can put one in danger. The thing about skip shift that most people do is they run up in a lower gear, depress the clutch, then immediately force the shifter into the skipped-to higher gear. Say you are accelerating in 3rd gear and you take the engine up to 4000 RPM and shift to 4th where the engine should be running at, say, 3400 RPM. During a normal shift, the time it takes to complete the shift is enough time for the RPMs to drop back off to the vicinity of 3400 RPM. But when you skip 4th and go for fifth in the same scenario, 5th might require, say, 2700 RPM at the road speed you're traveling. So either you wait for the RPMs to drop to that vicinity or like most people, you start the shift early and the synchronizers have a bit of work on their hands slowing the mass down to matching speeds.

Anyway, you've made a good and valid point about the ECU holding the engine speed for a short time. I've tested this under several conditions and know it to be a fact, too.

SouthernBoy

Nope, all seven speeds are fully synchronized in our TLs. To my knowledge, there has not been a non-synchronized transmission sold in any cars in the US since the earlier 50's. If someone told you that our transmissions are only synchronized in gears 1 through 4, they told you a serious lie.

As for short shifting, be careful with this as there are too many variables which will affect your shifting patterns. Also, our engines are not high torque producers so short shifting can be a problem there as well.

SouthernBoy

To the people who are having problems with the 1 - 2 shift, jerkiness and bucking, the reason is the rather wide ratio spread between these two gears. You need to be aware of this. Take first gear up to around 3000 to 3500 RPM and then do your shift to second gear.. see if that helps. Also, use your tach.. that's what it's there for. I still use mine when starting off at certain times because of the relatively low torque (especially at such low RPMs) from our engines.

Formula 350

Did you mean six speeds???

I normally do not short shift... just wanted to try and see how good of gas mileage I could get... I am aware of the torque issue... since I was trying for gas mileage I did not push the gas that hard at any time... and the engine is powerful if you are accelerating slowly... I could run the car at 1200 to 1300 rpm with out much problem... no/slow acceleration... but it would hold the speed..

As for the syncros... I read it in the Acura book... maybe it was that we had more in the lower gears.... but I am not an expert on the workings of a transmission

SouthernBoy

No, I did mean seven speeds. Don't forget reverse. It's also synchronized.

The first four forward gears have multi-cone synchronizers, fifth and sixth do not have this feature. But rest assured they are fully synchronized. Need proof? With the engine idling and the transmission in neutral, depress the clutch and shift into fifth gear. Did it grind? Now do the same thing with sixth gear. It didn't grind either did it? Those are your synchronizers at work.

As for short shifting, mostly what I was referring to was this. You do not want to lug (also called laboring your engine) your engine if you can help it and operating at too low of an engine speed in higher gears can and will do this. Also, if you do not have enough engine speed available, in the event you need to accelerate quickly, you will not be far enough into your power (torque) curve to allow this move.

Just be cautious.. that's all I was trying to say.

Spiritman

Man I hate the ECU telling me what too do!!!
This is why I said that I take my time......

pettydw

For best fuel economy shift at 2000 rpm when not needing to accelerate fast or if not going uphill. By keeping the revs low, keeping speeds reasonable, and not following to close (so you can keep off the brake as much as possible), you can get near 30 mpg in mixed driving.

SouthernBoy

I would suggest a higher RPM than 2000 for the reasons I stated earlier. Just be careful if you do this.

I can get close to 28 MPG in work commuting traffic with my TL using my normal driving techniques.

Nykor

Interesting thoughts on the skip shifting. I've never owned anything but a manual, and have been skip shifting for roughly 20 years now. I have never had a transmission/clutch/drivetrain related issue.

Maybe I'm just lucky, but I'm more inclined to think that it isn't really such a big deal.

Midnight_TL

lol...u've been driving stick since you were 10???? hehe that's a true driver right there!!!

Spiritman

Yes, thats what I am saying...... I've been driven since the 50's. I agree. Done properly it's NO BIG DEAL!!


MPLS a wavin at ya......

Formula 350

Dang.. forget that pesky reverse Maybe it was the mulit cone that I was thinking.. I was reading up on the transmission... and it was an interesting read.. thanks for the info..

Yes, I normally do not short shift.. just did it for two tanks to see how much you COULD get out of a tank of gas if you wanted... as I said, I was surprised I could get 30 driving around town... as I normally do not get 30 on the highway.. and if there looked like there was an issue that I might need more power.. I shifted to a lower gear... I was actually surprised with how much power this does have at the lower RPMs... no, it is not in its power band, but the engine did not seem to lug at all if you did not floor it...

But, I am back to my normal driving and the 24 to 26 I normally get... which I am happy with..

jennarocks

sure... im probably more like 70mph when i've shifted from 4th to 6th. so if i understand it correctly, if i do skip shift to 6th, i should wait for the RPMs to drop to the 'normal range' for 6th gear before i shift. OR i could just not skip shift either way, i guess i should be glad that i've probably done it all of 5 times in the 20K miles i've had the car.

Good to know.

SouthernBoy

Yes, you should wait until the RPMs drop to where they are in the vicinity of where they should be for the higher gear you are about to shift into.

For those who still believe that skip shifting is NO BIG DEAL.. It's not as long as you do what I have been trying to explain. Think about what is happening inside of your transmission. If you are shifting from, say, 4th gear to 6th gear at, say, 60 MPH, once the clutch is fully engaged in 6th gear, the engine will be turning 2000 RPM. Now in 4th gear, it would be turning somewhere in the neighborhood of maybe 3200 to 3400 RPM (to be precise, I'd have to go out and observe this and I'm not of a mind to at this time). But let's just say 3300 RPM for agument's sake. The difference between 3300 RPM and 2000 RPM is significant and this means the synchronizers will have to slow the speed of the drive gears down quite a bit before a mesh of the dog teeth can take place. This means wear, folks.

So all I am saying is do one of two things. Don't skip shift at all or if you do, allow the engine speed to subside enough so that it will be in the vicinity of where it needs to be for the chosen higher gear. That's all.

Wid-TL

I've had my car for almost a year, and have just under 18k miles.

I think I've used 5th gear once or twice. I always go 4-6.

NEVER skipped any others more than trying it once, as there always seems to be the need for the immediate power in the next gear (never want to feel bogged).

Good or bad remains to be seen - I'll be sure to let everyone know if/when I'm in the shop for transmission repairs!

Tecciztecatl

SouthernBoy,


Thanks for that write up ... yeah, I guess I have been downshifting wrong all these years. DAMNIT! The thing about riding the clutch when downshifting does make sense and I should have known better. I will have to rectify the situation and it is much easier and cheaper to replace brakes than a clutch on a fwd ...

Thank you Sir, learned something valuable today. I'll buy ya a beer sometime. ;-)