PaulKCK

Just got the latest R&T in the mail. There is a review on the 04 TL with 6MT. Good overall review. But, next page is a review of the 04 BMW 530. Performance wise the TL beat it in most every category. And the BMW was optioned out to $55,000. I ended up with the 5AT but feel like I can at least hold my own with a 530 AT and beat a 525 manual. I was suprised how close a lot of the dimensions are similar between the 2 cars.

Skeedatl

I like R&T better than C&D with their magic "gotta have it factors" and garbage. I'd love to have a 5-series...I test drove one and it "felt" better. Wasn't as fast but I felt more connected to the road if that makes any sense. It was just the $16,000 ($48K MSRP for the fairly non-Navi 525 Prem/Sport I drove) difference that was the killer. How they get that much for that car is quite astonishing. It was nice, but I dunno if the 525 is $50K nice. I'm guessing the 530 and 545 are much the same just with more power. With those I can easily understand why someone would spend $50-$60K on one. They are really nice. One of the 545's I saw said on the sticker that it had 20 WAY per seats. The salesman said that in a few months as a mid-year change coming out with a head up display and satellite radio. Of course the TL already has the latter but I'd like to have the former.

One thing I have to agree with C&D on, if the TL was RWD, it would be nearly perfect.

Norse396

Skeedatl,

Agreed, I drove a 525 as well, very nice car and felt solid as a rock on the road, cost wise it didn't feel that much better than a TL.

TLXLR8S

did you guys get the march R&T already in the mail? iam still waiting for mine . wonder why i didnt get it yet.

jrock65

While the previous generation 530i was hailed by the press as close to "perfect" a sedan can get, the current 530i has not nearly been as warmly received.

Traditionally pro-BMW press like C&D and Edmunds say the current 530i isn't that bad, but not good enough to justify the $50,000 (decently optioned) price tag.

Can't wait until the new Lexus GS, Infiniti M, Audi A6, and Acura RL come out within a year or so. It's really gonna be a battle in the 40k to 50k sport sedan category.

I got my money on the Infiniti M, as long as they don't mess up on the interior. Based on the photos of the Fuga, it is the best-looking sedan I have ever seen, except maybe the MB S-class (that car is near the end of its run, but it's still beautiful.)

digital_b

I got my r and t on the 28th but havent read it yet. I love the looks of the 5 series but its cheap on the inside and costs way more than its worth relative to the tl. they look similar and are similarly sized and if the cost the same probably a lot of us would be 530 owners. who gives a crap what mags think about looks though. they hate almost anything new probably because they are old farts thinking about cars from the 50s and 60s and losing sight of the fact that most of us never saw and dont care about mg midgets and shelby cobras and the like.

¿GotJazz?

Maybe. But not me. I didn't even step into any of the German dealerships during my latest car purchase round. Why?

1) The BMW dealers in this town have way too much unjustified 'tude.

2) Expected price reduction: $0.

3) The reliability on my last BMW was the worst of any car that I have owned. I held it for about 1 year, and it went in for more repairs and re-repairs (dealer's poor workmanship) than nearly all my previous cars combined.

4) Did I mention the dealer's painfully annoying stuck-up attitude?

5) Price : Performance ratio for equivilent cars is leaning away from the German cars.

catsailr

I drove a 04 530i and really liked the feel of it. I really like the looks of the 03 better, but my wife didn't like either one of them. She wanted the TL, and since it is her car, that's what we got.

We traded our 2000TL for an 04TL, 5AT, Navi this past Friday and love it. The sticker price of the 530i was $53,000 and didn't have near the equipment of the TL. It would be hard to justify that kind of price difference.

neuronbob

As I said in another post, the new 530's interior is pretty minimalist, the idea being that this is a driver's car. I also didn't feel that the equipment level was worth paying over $50k for. If I were a BMW fan, I'd go for the previous generation, which really was close to perfect.

Modeler

Do they say anything about torque steer?

Skeedatl

I got the issue in the mail yesterday too, but couldn't find ANY article on the TL in it. I'd like to know what page it's on.

TLXLR8S

i new 530 have a wierd look to it. dont like it at all. TL any day over the 530+15G in my pocket.

racerxlilbro

First post...

I have had NOTHING but horrible experiences in BMW dealerships. I just don't "get" it. There was the first time I went to look at pre-owned 5 series - and the salesman said, "You realize all our car payments are AT LEAST $500 a month?" Whaaaa?????

Then last friday, I was just ignored. Flat, ignored... Had two salespeople walk right by...no greeting, no questions, nada.

In my research, I've found the TL to be among the very best value propositions out right now. Oh, and the sales people actually TALKED to me. LOL

adam209

how old are you? the older you are and the nicer a car you drive up in, the better the response

JetJock

I've always had bad experiences with BMW dealers, unless you drive in with a BMW, they have this "attitude" that turns me off. I've noticed this in dealerships from coast to coast, so that's not the issue, they are all the same. I have 2 friends who own BMW's, and they tell me that maintenance is really expensive, and neither are buying another BMW next time around.

Quincy

I also once went to the BMW dealer to kick the tires and price. The salesman did an excellent job in helping me make my decision. He spoke very well of the BMW but he himself drove an ACURA TL and now so do I.

JetJock

I wanted to check out the R&T article and went to the store yesterday to look for the March issue. They had it, but the only thing there about Acura's was an article about the A-Spec RSX I believe..nothing about the TL. What month was the TL article in?

PaulKCK

It is the April issue. Home subscribers at least get the benefit of being a month ahead of the news stands.

EluSiOn

Most of the salesman at dealership are rude...

My gf was looking to buy a car last yr and we were in my "ghetto" 96 civic with dent and scratches... most of the dealership ignore us... that really piss me off... in the end, she got a RSX base type because the Acura dealership is a bit nicer to us and also she put down 8k for down payment.

And last month I was in my 96 civic trying to shop for a car for myself, I receive the same treatment again, I was so pissed that I had to borrow my gf's RSX in order to get salesman to talk to me. I checked out Mazada 6 & RX8, BMW 325 & 330, Honda EX V6, Nissan Maxima, Infinity G35 Coupe and also Acura MDX & TL. In the end, I choose TL because I think it got the best c/p ratio (cost / performance). I put down 20k for my down payment so my monthly payment is only $240

I still like my 96 Civic. That car's engine still runs great and I had 100k mile on it. It was the car that I take to college. Now I am in the middle of process to make that car back to its glorious day again... because my younger brother now is going to college and I can't think of any other better gift for him to go to college with.

Norse396

I was in paint stained sweats with a baseball cap on, these are my car buying clothes. My sales person at Continental Acura had no idea she was getting a two car sale when I walked in.

All the people dressed in their Sunday best were looking at us wondering why so many people were fussing over us, it was pretty funny.

I expected to not be taken seriously when I told her that we would like to test drive two cars, she didn't bat an eye and spent the better part of her day before realizing she was going to get two sales that day. This impressed me, and the dealerships treatment of me since has been excellent.

Mindcrime

I think the TL is a better car from a price/performance stance then the BMW 5 series. I have a 323I that I'm looking to trade on a new TL and I just don't care for the new 5 series. The design is strange and the interior is ugly. I love my 323I but I would not pay $50,000+ for the 5 series. I'm sure it handles great but why would you spend $16,000 more on the 5 series then the TL when they have some of the same features, except RWD vs FWD.

I agree with one of the posts above that R&T is better then Car and Driver. C&D always make it out like if you don't get a car that is $50,000 with all the bells and whistles then don't get anything at all. They need to really base cars rankings on price/performance knowing that most people either can't afford to go with a $50K car or dont' want to pay that for a car that isn't worth it.

Skeedatl

I got the issue and couldn't find any TL review...not in the contents, not in the mag. What page is it on?

TLXLR8S

i walk into the acura of manhattan dear once on a sunday. i dressed nice, and within 5 minutes i was test driving the TL.

winstrolvtec

A pretty good review, the issue of torque steer will not go away, but still one of the best reviews on the car. The road test hurt on this one, 0-60 in 6.3 and 14.8 with hpt 6mt, more like an auto, guess they didnt want the 5 to look too bad, it was reviewed on the next page.

digital_b

amazing how many people go to benz and bmw dealers and get hosed or dissed. those people actually expect they should be respected and worshipped because of the marque? I think its hilarious. when I bought my benz truck from the dealer whose salesman actually paid attention to me I brought it to the local dealer who couldnt be bothered and parked it right in front so they had to see it when I bought some accessories [their prices were cheaper] and laughed at the sales people when they realized they blew the sale. you shouldnt be worried about what your wearing when you show up at the dealership. they look at you as a mark so dont take it personally. look at them as a transaction and act like it and youll be surprised how that attitude goes away when they are chasing a commission.

PaulKCK

R&T review. Noticed that the test conditions for both the TL and 530 are exactly the same (temp, elevation and humidity). I wonder if they tested the cars at the same time? I am sure it was no mistake they put the cars back to back in the April issue.

legendguy

Funny how we deal with the psychology of buying a car. I have found myself trying to "dress down" a little so that the salesman doesn't think I have a lot of extra dough. This is silly but we do it anyway. Maybe I should stroll in with a couple toddlers under the arms to make the point even more definite.

vtechbrain

I dont think its brand specific but rather City associated. Dealers located in uppity parts of town profile their customers. Although I never dress up and I'm unmistakeably "ethnic" I've only been slighted at a dealer in Minneapolis once. The dealer in Madison has always been great. I don't think its a dealer but rather an individual sales person thing. As anywhere else, nothing makes you whiter than money.

markiemark

I watched car and driver TV today and it placed 3rd out of seven with the G35 in first and the 325 BMW in second. If it would have been a RWD then they said it would have been first. Most horsepower and value and they stated on the show that a 6MT did a 0-60 time of 5.8 seconds. Not bad I think.....

lindros2

re: 530i

I've posted it before - I compared the two but couldn't justify $850-900/month on a lease. It's crazy - the TL just is such a better bargain with, in my opinion, a nicer interior.

-josh

dwhitten

April 2004 of R&T pages 62- 67

automophile

I'm happy to hear that I am not the only one receiving insulting experiences at BMW dealers.

The FINAL straw was their pretension at selling some USED cars at nearly the same price as the NEW ones. Give me a break!

The other issue is the attitudes of the Beemer drivers here in L.A. God's gift to the road, they think! As nice a car as the 5 series is, I just can't live with the image.

My wife also LOVED the 330 look and feel, but she is SO happy that she bought a TSX instead and saved many thousands of $$, and go more features.

re: BMW attitude -
There's a story about an LA showbiz attorney that got in a horrible car accident (surely on his cell phone while drinking his latte and reading Daily Variety).

A passerby stopped to help, and found the attorney walking around moaning "My Beemer, My poor Beemer!"

The passerby said "You are so materialistic that you don't even notice that your arm was torn off!"

The attorney looked down and exclaimed "My Rolex, My Rolex!"