SouthernBoy

I've had my three bottles of GM-SFM with the requisite washers and funnels, sitting in my garage for the past, maybe, 6 weeks. So this morning, I finally had an opportunity to switch out the old and in with the new.

This is really a very simple and CLEAN job if you do a little prep work. Yesterday, I spent 1/2 hour examining the best way to get to the fill plug with the least amount of stuff being removed. So here's what I did.

My driveway is on a slight downward slope towards the street, so I placed my homemade wooden ramps towards the street and drove the car up on them.

I removed the plastic shroud (two 10mm bolts and four push pins) from the bottom to expose the transmission. The drain and sight plugs are facing to the front of the car.

I checked the level at the bottom of the transmission (with, what else, a level) and compensated to get the bobble in the center, by using a floor jack at the rear "hook".

I removed the upper air cleaner housing as though I was going to replace the air filter, then separated it from the ribbed throttle body coupling (you don't really need to do this.. it just made using the funnel I had that much easier. Next time, I won't remove the upper housing from the ribbed coupling.

I removed the fill plug from the top of the transmission (had to use a breaker bar since it was really in there.

I placed my drain pan under the tranny then removed the drain plug to let the old stuff out. I let it drain to a slow drip.. about 15 minutes at most.

I installed a new washer on the drain plug and threaded it back in and torqued it to specs.

Then I inserted the funnel into the fill hole and slowly poured 2 quarts, 5+ ounces of GM-SFM in the tranny, making sure not to pour too quickly, otherwise it could back up and spill over the top of the fill hole.. it didn't.

I installed the fill plug with a new washer and torqued to specs.

Finally, I re-installed the pieces I had to remove and the job was done. This is really a simple change. I took me about 1 1/2 hours because a few neighbors stopped to talk (one is my next door neighbor and he has a new '05 TL 6MT) so he was curious. Normally, I say take your time and expect a 1 hour job at the most.


When I drained the factory fill, I noticed the color was golden which looks like it's clean and new. When I was cleaning up and getting ready to pour the fluid out of my drain pan and into one of my 5-gallon oil recycling gas cans, I noticed that the fluid appeared cloudy. So I took it back outside of my garage and slowly sloshed it back and forth in the drain pan and it looked like I was panning for gold. I looked like there was gold dust all in the bottom of the pan. This is metal from the synchros! Road Rage and JackSprat01 are right!

So I would say, get the factory fill out before 10,000 miles, preferrably 6000 miles if you can. My TL has 15528 miles on it with this change and I will do the drain and fill again probably at 36,000 miles, then every two years after that.

Really a simple and clean and no hassle job.

Ron A

Great post.

I would like to also reference this thread, which has pictures and service manual scans, and this thread, both of which are in the 3G Garage.

I have also added this thread to the 3G Garage.

JetJock

So now that you've got the GM-FM fluid, what have you noticed as far as shifting goes? I changed my fluid last month and I'm really pleased with the results. The transmission really seems to shift much smoother and silky with the new fluid. I wish I had done it sooner.

SouthernBoy

To Jetjock et al;

After cleaning up, I took my TL out for a drive, mostly on some western Prince William County roads (since I live in western Prince William County), and into Fauquier County. This area is really quite beautiful for nice drives in the country. Then on into a little more traffic with lights and such.

My initial impression of shifting improvements is that they are insignificant. This is probably due to the fact that my transmission has always felt very buttery smooth, so perhaps any difference with mine is marginal. I have noticed a smoother mesh into first gear when traveling around 5-6 MPH and not rev matching before the shift. I did this just to see how it felt.. since I would normal rev match anyway.

Yes, there is a difference with mine. No, it is not anything more than subtle.. at least at this time.

Legend2TL

Thanks for the posting, still thinking about trying GM-SFM and always interested in other's opinions.

JackSprat01

It should get better, but then your tranny is already broken in more. Glad to hear I'm not the only one "panning for gold."

SouthernBoy

To JackSprat01;

Yeah, that really surprised me.. to actually see all of the little gold-colored "dust" and particles. I wasn't expecting that.

Just got back from another drive of about 20+ miles, into Manassas and then some two-lane, quality back roads to home. I have to admit, the shifting is feeling a little smoother. With my downshifting technique, before you would hardly notice a downshift.. now you wouldn't.

I just love driving this thing.

JetJock

SouthernBoy...I think the more you drive your car you're going to notice it gets smoother. At first my I thought it was subtle, but as I got more miles (and shifts) on the transmission, it's definately much smoother than before.

I have a friend who is currently in automobile mechanic school in the Philadelphia area and one of his instructors told him that I might get leaks using synthetic fluid in a Honda MT. Have you heard of anyone getting leaks using the GM-FM fluid?

JackSprat01

Absurd.

There is a whole rant just dying to be unleashed through this innocent keyboard right now but I'll just spare everyone and politely say, "bullshit."

cM3go

I really need to do this, I'm at 22K miles

ludachrisvt

iTrader: (2)

same! I hope nothing is screwed up? I dont really have the toolage for this. Can anyone recommend a good shop to do this? Could I ask the dealer/should I stay away from tranny shops? I am not very experienced with these things.

JackSprat01

Well, I doubt the Acura dealer will put GM fluid in your car.

Any little shit shop could do this in 15 minutes. Just get the fluid for them; you can be sure they will not have it

SouthernBoy

Hey ludachrisvt;

You went to Tech.. that's in Virginia.. you're supposed to know these things (heh, heh).

Seriously, it's really a VERY simple job. Granted, if you are not mechanically inclined, there is naturally an element of fear and trepidation. If so, do as JaclSprat01 suggests and find a good, quality mechanic you trust, get the right parts, and have him do the work.

Here's what you will need.

3 quarts of GM Synchromesh Transmission Fluid - Friction Modified, part #1237916
2 aluminum washers, one for the drain plug and one for the fill plug (same size washers)

Torque specs: drain plug = 29 ft/lb, fill plug = 33 ft/lb
Amount to fill: With a level drain, re-fill with 2.3 quarts (thats 2 quarts, 9.6 ounces)

Oops. I just noticed, I am shy about 4 ounces on my fill. Guess I should get back up to the GM dealer and pickup some more fluid to get the extra in.

ChuckDu

Wait a minute... I changed my tranny fluid a few months ago. The fill hole bolt washer was huge. I just reused the original washer. Maybe you filled the tranny using the check hole?

ludachrisvt

iTrader: (2)

southernboy: Want me to make your VA analogy worse? I am an engineer! HA! I am also lazy. I love to DIY but I dont want to screw with something that expensive to replace.

I dont have a torque wrench nor do I know how to use one. Also I am in a apartment ... I do have a garage but no jackstands. So in essense I would need to buy all that shit to do this. I guess the cost would be the same though ...

SouthernBoy

To ChuckDu;

The washers for the fill plug and the drain plug are the same size.. about the size of a quarter. I don't know of any "check hole", but every manual tranny I've owned (which is all but one of my cars), has had a sight plug several inches (like maybe 6 or so) above the drain plug. Sight plugs GENERALLY tend to be a little smaller than drain plugs, but not always.

My fill plug is located directly under the ribbed throttle body coupling, accepts a 3/8's drive, and has a red mark going across its face. It better be the correct plug. It's also next to a brass colored bracket which secures a small electrical plastic conduit. Oh, and while I had the fill plug out and after having drained the tranny, I looked in the opening with a flashlight and saw a gear and synchronizer teeth.


To ludachrisvt;

What area of engineering? You did go to one of the premier schools in the nation for engineering. Virginia has some really fine institutes of higher learning.

ludachrisvt

iTrader: (2)

computer eng

SouthernBoy

Great! I'm a software engineer.

mporter410

SouthernBoy,

I live in Prince William County as well, Where did you get the Syncromesh at?

ChuckDu

A difference between the '04 and '05? Here's a picture of the fill hole on my car with a transmission drain plug washer resting on top for illustration purposes. Under the fill bolt you can make out the edge of the fill bolt washer; it is the same outside diameter as the fill plug. On my car, the drain and sight (nee "check") plug washers are the same as the engine oil drain plug washer.

While I can't readily scan the '04/'05 service manual, it's pretty clear from the pictures on page 13-10 that the washers are different sizes.

SouthernBoy

Yeah, yours looks the same as mine, I'd say. Only the picture is not taken from the front of the car looking rearward, but rather more from the passenger's side looking towards the driver's side.

You know, I may stand corrected on the size of the drain plug washer. Perhaps I'll go check right now to make sure I installed the proper one. I do remember the parts guy giving me several washers (extras) and saying the drain plug washer was the same as the oil drain plug washer. I also had an extra fill plug washer left over which I put with my oil drain plug washers when I finished up. Now you have my curiousity up.

Ron A

For your info, here's the scans.

I can't figure out which bolt is which, but check these links for Sunnyside Acura and you will probably be able to find the exact sizes of each bolt and washer.
http://www.acuraparts247.com/sunnysi...All&vinsrch=no
http://www.acuraparts247.com/sunnysi...All&vinsrch=no

SouthernBoy

To Ron A;

Thanks, Ron. I have the Service Manual and have referred to the same pages you scanned.



To ChuckDu;

There will be a short intermission while I get a rag and clean up some of this egg on my face. Thanks so much for pointing out my error.. I would hate to lead someone in the wrong direction by offering inaccurate information.

ChuckDu is absolutely correct. The drain plug washer IS the same washer specified for the oil pan drain plug. You couldn't even use the washer from the fill plug because due to a slight detent, the drain plug would not fit securely and take a firm seat against this washer.

Sorry gentlemen for my error.


To mporter410;

I bought my GM-SFM at Pohanka Chevrolet in Chantilly. I't sure there are some GM dealers in Woodbridge that would stock this item. Call their parts department and use the part number I gave to see if they have it. Don't be surprised if, when you ask for Synchromesh Friction Modified, that they have no idea what it is and may even doubt you know what you are talking about. That's why the part number comes in handy. I saved an empty bottle just in case.

SouthernBoy

Seems I owe ChuckDu another apology. I see the Service Manual refers to the sight plug as the "check bolt" which one may assume fits into a "check hole".

Now if I can only find a nice little rock to crawl under.....

Legend2TL

Hey it happens to the best of us.

FWIW, I've changed the MTF on Honda/Acura's for ~20 years and this is the first time where the fill bolt hole was not used as the check level hole. Most of the time the fill/check bolt hole was horizontal on the side of the transaxle.

Have to remember this when I change my MTF, I don't like raw egg either

Ron A

I know you do, but I stuck it in for those who don't have the manual, ald also because I gave the links to the parts list, which I couldn't figure out for the life of me which bolt went where, mainly because they called them different things.

Honda was just being nice putting a filler plug in instead of making you fill it through the check hole, but I suppose you could use the check hole if you wanted to, couldn't you?

ChuckDu

Absolutely no apology is needed. Just a friendly exchange to help out interested TL owners. Since this thread is in the 3G garage, the info needs to be as accurate as possible.

By the way, the picture was taken without removing or moving any parts. Jack Sprat and Road Rage had a thread months ago discussing how the fill bolt could be removed without taking apart the car. I'm going to try it that way next time.

Keep all this good maintenance info coming, it's saving me a ton of money in over-priced dealer maintenance costs!

Chuck

ChuckDu

Yes you could. But you would most likely need to pump the fluid in since there's no good approach angle to the sight hole ( ) from above. If you go this route, you might want to have an extra quart on hand since a goodly amount stays in the hoses (and not in your tranny.)

Ron, thanks for your endless scans of the service manual. It really helps complete threads like this.

Chuck

SouthernBoy

Hey Ron A;

I wasn't being a smart ass (hope you know that) about the scanned pages. Really, thanks for the extra added info.. always appreciated by me, for sure.


To ChuckDu;

Yep, every other manual I've had, you had to fill through the sight (check) hole until it runs out. Generally that's a messy deal. My '02 Altima SE. was a royal pain to change the MT fluid because not only did you have to do i though the sight hole, but because of it's location, it was a bear to get to. I used tubes of manual gear oil to do the change, cussing a good part of the time. The TL is almost a joy with this job.

If you unscrew the four screws and raise the upper air cleaner housing, you'll find with a nice long funnel, that the fill hole is S-O-O-O easy to get to.. for removing, filling, and re-installing. I mean, the only thing that would make this job easier is if you didn't need to remove the plastic shroud from the bottlm of the tranny and if the fill hole were a tube, raised up to the level of the battery cover (not a good idea, by the way).

Anyway, I'm going to do this again before my stated 36,000 miles.. maybe at around 30,000, just to get some more metal out of the case. I bought another funnel today, much better (and longer) than the one I used Sunday.

Ron A

I know you weren't. It's hard to show inflection in a written post. I meant "I know you do (or is this making it worse)?

Anyway, we know what we meant. And all of your informative posts are greatly appreciated also.

JackSprat01

Hey engineers...not sure if anyone caught this but isn't .3 quarts 4.8 ounces? Southern boy, go drain that back out again!

SouthernBoy

No. .3 quarts is ((32 / 10) * 3), which comes out to 9.6 ounces.

SouthernBoy

How do you like your eggs? Scrambled, sat on, or sunny side up?

JackSprat01

Gotcha, quarts, not pints.

zootjeff

It looks like on the first link the drain bolt is:
014 90081-PB6-000 BOLT, PLUG (14MM) 1 2005 Acura TL 9.83 7.71

and drain washer:
019 94109-14000 OIL DRAIN WASHER (14MM) 1 2005 Acura TL 0.29 0.22

On the second link, the check bolt is:
027 95701-06012-08 BOLT, FLANGE (6X12) 3 2005 Acura TL 0.81 0.63

The check washer is:
020 90442-397-000 WASHER, SEALING (6MM) 1 2005 Acura TL 1.43 1.12


Clearly not the same size washers.. I am planning to do my oil change trough the check plug area so I don't have to mess with the fill plug.

I just figured out however that the check plug is only 6mm!!!!!! I just measured the tube of my pump with the calipers and it measures 8mm!!!!! That might be a problem. Someone on this fourm did mention that this is how the dealer fills the fluid. Has any one verfied this? I'm going to need to get a tiny little adapter to use my filler pump hose, then there will be no where for the air to escape. Maybe this isn't such a good idea?

-Jeff

Legend2TL

I'd strongly recommend using the fill plug, the check bolt is very small. More than likely you'll make more of a mess getting in ~3 quarts of MTF into that little hole. The fill plug is not that difficult to get to and with a few 3/8" socket extensions is easy to loosen up. I used a funnel with a long tube to get the fluid into the fill plug hole, I did NOT remove the air intake tubing and air filter.

SouthernBoy

I second your strong recommendation.

The sight (check) plug hole would be fine to use as a overrun guide.. which is really one of its functions in life anyway. Remove the check bolt and fill from the fill hole on the top of the transmission. Once you are in the vacinity of having filled around 2.3 quarts, you will soon start to see some of the fluid overrun the sight (check) hole. This is the sign to stop filling and close and clean everything up.

jc-tl

>>I removed the plastic shroud (two 10mm bolts and four push pins) from >>the bottom to expose the transmission. The drain and sight plugs are >>facing to the front of the car.

Those push pins - what are people's strategy to get these out? Destroy and replace? Or, gingerly remove and try to preserve? I am somewhere in the middle, I just removed the bottom shroud: 2 pushpins came out ok, the 3rd is fairly well destroyed, and the fourth was not necessary to remove - i pivoted the shroud out of the way.

>>I checked the level at the bottom of the transmission (with, what else, >>a level) and compensated to get the bobble in the center, by using a >>floor jack at the rear "hook".

why is this necessary? given the plug faces front, wouldn't you want the car facing slightly down hill?

thanks
-jc

db78

If I'm going to be doing a 3x3 since my car has 60k miles on it and I'm not sure if the previous owner changed the fluids, should I be buying 9qts then?

SouthernBoy

You do not have to do this if you remove the check plug and fill until you get run over. However, if you are just going to drain and then fill with 2.3 quarts, then you do want a level transaxle case.