edko

Refused delivery of my (5AT/SSM/NAV) today. My heart is broken. I feel like I just got kicked in the stomach, but I had no choice. We are taking about over $50,000 CAN dollars here.
After carefully inspecting the car as per another member’s advice on this forum I noted a few blemishes and the salesperson noted them. By the way the sales guy was great!
The problem happened during the pre-delivery test drive. Between 80km/hr-90km/hr I could feel the car vibrate! My car was built on February 10th so all of those post about replacing or fixing the tires post February 1 are BS. Got the sales guy to come with me and he felt it too. The sales guy than spoke to his sales manager and they said they got another brand new TL (with the plastic still on) and they would test drive that TL to see if the rubber was OK on that car, if it was they would swap my wheels and rubber with the other TL.
They didn’t have to swap the wheels because the TL demonstrated the same vibration problem. After speaking to his sales manager he said there is nothing they can do until they get authorization from Acura. By coincidence the District Manager is going to be at the dealership on Monday, so my sales guy left a message with the dealerships service manager with instructions to speak to the District Manager about the issue and call me with the results.
What bothers me is that the Acura dealership knowing very well that the vehicle has a vibration issue was willing to still deliver the car to me but unwilling to put on paper that they would replace the tires with equal or better value tires, that were mutually agreeable, should it be found that the tires were indeed responsible for the vibration issue. How un BMW, Lexus and Mercedes like. I told my sales guy “How can Acura compete with the likes of these luxury titans if it won’t go to the plate for its customers and those would-be customers within a $50,000 checks reach. There should be no question or hesitation on whether to sign a clause about the tires. Even if Acura would not pay for the new tires the dealership is still making money from me, how un-professional can you get, the dealership won’t even stand behind what it sells with or without big brother Acura, Honda or whatever they want to be called.
The only two logical reasons for this behavior that I can think of are:
1) The dealership wants to sell my factory ordered TL to another customer willing to pay full MSRP or better, as I did cut a good deal with them, remember this is a HOT selling car. OR
2) The Acura dealership is using me as a pawn to negotiate with Acura to pay for the replacement tires, which makes me wonder how much Acura values its customers or potential customers if one of their own dealerships has to resort to dangling my $50,000 check in front of them to take the action it should be on its own accord (no pun intended).

Anyway Monday is around the corner, so we will see what happens. I’m just going to have to swallow a lot of BS from collogues at work who own BMW’s and Mercedes and thought I was nuts for putting Acura on such a high pedestal.

Good news to follow

acuraddict

Hey man GOOD FOR YOU FOR REFUSING TO TAKE DELIVERY.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

God, I wish everyone would refuse to take delivery. Everyone should test the fukking memory seats to see if they work also. Screw Acura.

BLEXV6

Whos your dealer? This is totally unacceptable and I would be livid. This is however why you never buy a first year vehicle. That said, I bought a 1986, and 1998 Accord, both 1st year vehicle with no problems, except the 98s tranny, that went at 155,000 kilometers, but Honda paid most of, even though it was well past warranty.

edko

My dealer is/was/might be Acura Woodbine.

KevinB

How severe is the vibration? I didn't notice anything on the demonstrator that the dealer had. On the other hand, the roads here are terrible and I'm used to driving an NSX which is really stiff so there is a lot of vibration just from the road surface.

neuronbob

edko, you did the right thing, if my car had that problem, I would have considered refusing too. I think most of us here will support you. Please keep us posted on your situation.

edko

The vibration was only noticeable within an approximate 10mph range and the best way to describe it would be it was harmonic in nature. Also this would only affect cold climate TL’s. The vibration would have probably gone away once the rubber warmed up a bit, but still this is not acceptable.
In Japan they actually sell refrigerators with motors that are quieter than the norm due to the paper thin walls. The same should apply to cars especially luxury cars. Don’t sell equipment to an area which it was not designed for.

Vffr1

You did the right thing, if the tires bother you that much.

I thought Acura agreed to a fix? If that is true, then you could of taken the car, use the tires for a while and get a new set this summer. In fact there is a post stating ACS is replacing tires on a case-by-case basis.

Best of luck, you won't regret your decision.


Mike Smeezy

edko

I would have gladly taken the TL home with me if that was the case. BUT the dealer refused to put anything in writing, and why would I had over $50,000 for a car that vibrates or pay an extra $1500.00 for new rubber. We all know what we call people who didn’t get something “serious” in writing and thousands of dollars is serious cash to me.

legendguy

Edko,

In the "rush" of excitement to receive a new car, it is easy to hand over the cash and take the keys. You are the smart one, because by testing the car you kept the cash in your pocket until the car is fixed (which is the responsibility of ACURA not you).

80-90km/hr I believe translates to 50-56mph for us metrically-challenged USAers. (Don't get me started on why we are too lazy to adopt the more logical standard). Anyway, this speed is well within normal driving conditions. One earlier post indicated vibration at something like 80 mph (128 km/hr) I believe and the dealer told the customer that that was not a legal speed anyway (puleeese, believe me, 80 mph happens to most all of us sometime). So if you have the vibration at 80-90 km/hr, Acura HAS to address the problem and get new tires or whatever it takes.

I can't believe with all the complaints that Acura doesn't take a few cars off the line for a full speed test every now and then. Is it possible that the problem isn't present until after shipping?

JoganJani

If you had a good deal I think you should not have refused the delivery. Acura is a good company and will stand behind their products. They would have fixed all the problems. However, if it bothers you so much then it is alright I'd say. All the best for your buy.

legendguy

Refusing the delivery shouldn't keep edko from getting his car at the price agreed, just delayed it while they either fix the problem or find a replacement. Personally, I wouldn't accept a car for something that wasn't an obvious fix (like a paint defect or broken/scratched part).

edko

The fact that I got a good deal or not has nothing to do about this situation. If you gave me a top of the line Mercedes or Porsche and put tires that weren’t designed for that particular application ie. Speed, handling, etc., I would not be a happy camper. The rubber on your car is extremely important it affects the driving characteristics of the car not to mention safety aspects. It’s only a few inches of rubber between you and the road.

nick79

good move. patience is the key to greatness

BLEXV6

I recall back in 94 when I bought a 94 Vigor at Acura Woodbine, without them seeing the trade-in (my 86 Accord), they agreed to pay x amount of dollars, subject to seeing the car. Then they saw the car and decided that the tires were not fine, and lowballed me. I then decided to walk and take my deposit. They tried to get me back and I said I was no longer interested in dealing with them. I then went to Acura Sherway and they gave me an even better deal than I origionally had at Woodbine.

That said, I bought my most recent TL at Acura 2000 and that dealer treats me great, especially when my tranny died.

Good luck and I hope they treat you better than I was.

It seems Acura should step up to the plate and replace all affected tires immediately and no longer sell these cars with these tires.

rets

edko,

Sorry to hear this news. I could understand how you'd like to bring the car home.

I did the same pre-test in Oct. and was lucky to sign the deal. This is absolutely right thing all customers should execute.

Please keep us updated. Thanks.

casooner90

My TL is an early build with EL42s. I thought I had the vibration issue so I took the car in to the dealer. They worked on it for a day and was able to get it straight. Now, no more vibration, tracks well and handles great. The suspension is tight so it feels all the pebbles on the road, but there is a stretch of new asphalt where I can take it 50+ MPH and check the car on daily basis. Still no vibration and the car tracks true. I'm just wondering how many of you with vibration issues took the car on a newly paved asphalt to see if you can replicate the problem.

Tread

I do every day, and on that new pavement it feels it's worst.

Some cars have it, and some dont. Some have three vibrations.

I would gladly swap cars with you if you want

casooner90

Just sound odd since I'm assuming that all the EL42s came off of the same assy line - maybe I'm wrong. Although there is a number of TL owners on this site complaining about the tire vibration, my dealer is still not aware of any issues. Good luck and hope Acrua recognizes your prob and get it fixed.

webster

"My dealer is/was/might be Acura Woodbine."

So if I call tomorrow and pretend I want to buy one and mention the vibration problem......will they admit that there is avibration problem or will I get same answer that they never heard of this issue?

Norse396

edko,

Congrats! If I had half a brain I would have done the same...

ndabunka

There is more than ONE vibration issue. Simply replacing the tires might not help. Maybe THAT is why Acura is not replacing the tires. Just think of all the hassles if upon reeplacing tires, 50% of the complaintant STILL have vibration issues? NORSE- Sounds like you need to start the lemon law process if yours is so bad that someone is complaining about riding in it.

Norse396

ndabunka,

I don't think I need lemon law assistance, I think the dealer will work with me. The car has to be worked on more than once to get this process started, the dealer seems to want to help, we'll see.

My client was unfortunate enough to get a ride fresh in the morning with the tires flat spotted worse than usual. When this happens the vibration is very heavy. After about 20 miles it gets better, I explained the tire issue and he didn't seem to be buying it, what was I going to say at that point, I shut my mouth and turned up the volume on the news.

edko

UPDATE!
I got a call from the service manager this morning and apparently the District Manager is NOT coming in for the remainder of this month, someone has bad info here. Who to believe?
The Sales Manager than asked me if I could come in to discuss this matter face to face, which I did, taking the rest of the afternoon off work (loss of $$$).
Anyway, after speaking to the Service Manager at the dealership he said Acura’s position is that the flat spotting occurs ONLY for the first 3 minutes of driving until the rubber warms up, and there is no Service Fix bulletin for this issue. The Service Manager also said that there is no safety concern about driving on these tires. I agreed with him on this point but stated that I am not being unreasonable for wanting to have a vibration free driving experience after paying this kind of money. Mind you the Sales and Service Manager did seem genuinely concerned about the issue as did I. Again there is nothing more than I want than to take delivery of this vehicle, which I made clear on several occasions with the Sales Manager.
So the Manager told me the problem is supposed to work its way out and it shouldn’t be a problem in 60 days. The problem with that is we are than already in warmer weather and the flat-spotting issue may not return until next winter for me to know that, and without anything in writing I could be left holding the bag. So I left the dealership with the ball in their court, they are supposed to see if they can give me some written assurances for my written check.
By the way, I called Acura Canada to see what there stand point on the tire issue was and all I got was some guy who although polite and repetitive could only type information into a computer. I asked him directly several times if I was the only person that called in to complain about the tire issue and he skirted around the question each time. I then asked him if I could speak to the District Manger and he said that he does not speak directly to the customers. The best way I could describe calling Acura was leaving a prompted voice mail message with a live human being.

Hoping for a call tonight...

Tread

edko, I was at 120days, and it still vibrated due to flat spoting when I finally replaced the tires.

Note the flat spoting is only 1 of three reported vibration issues.

edko

What are the other two vibration issues?
Details please

Tread

If you read and search the forums you will find there are three, follow the links below for many posts on this, but basically some have reported:

1. The tire flat spotting (which you know).
2. Vibrations in the tires at any time that can not be balanced out (does not disapear after the flat spotting does)
3. Some other one that ocurs in AT models when driving at 1500 rpms, and can be best felt at 50 - 60 mph, some indicate that it is a buzzing sound (www.vtec.net quantified it as a 6db increase, but was in a car that did not vibrate, only buzzed) and some have both the buzzing sound and a mild vibration throughout the car.

I do not want to scare you, the car is great, but unfortunately, some are having issues, and if you sense it in your test drive, I would be careful you do not get sucked into a car with a vibration issue that is more than tire related.

Here are some links:

http://www.acura-tl.com/forums/showt...n&pagenumber=1

http://www.acura-tl.com/forums/showt...ion#post653112

http://www.acura-tl.com/forums/showt...n&pagenumber=1

http://www.vtec.net/forums/one-messa...ge%5fid=199901 (note - Jeff is a writer/tester for vtec.net when you see the first post, it is he who is testing a "press" car that should be perfect)

Also, this forum at Vtec.net has many posts about this issue - http://www.vtec.net/forums/forum?forum_id=185070

ddisano

I took delivery on my NBP/5AT/Navi on 2/20 and I can't detect any vibration at all. The car does have the 42's on it. I have had it up to 90mph with no vibration detectable. It seems really odd that some of those tires have the problem and others don't. After I test drove the car I again mentioned to the salesperson that I was still concerned about the vibration issue popping up later. He assured me...although not in writing...that they would change the tires for me if a problem arose. I guess only time will tell if that will be needed and whether or not they will make good on the promise...but for now...I love the car and it feels great!

Tread

ddisano, congrats, and glad to hear it, and as I said, "some" have this problem, unfortunately edko felt it in his pre-delivery test drive, and if that is the case, I would be careful.

Animate

God, I wish we could figure out the nature of this vibration issue. It was the only thing that made me hesitate before buying my TL last December. But, after taking delivery and putting 4000 miles on the car, I have never experienced even a hint of the problem. I feel bad for those of you who haven't been so lucky.

1SICKLEX

They don't want to and are not trying.

bgronek

By your statement that it was within a specific speed range and that it sounded 'harmonic' in nature, your cars seem to have had the exhaust harmonic issue that has been found in the AT cars. There are some owners who are experimenting with solutions. A similar problem occurred on the MDX and some fixes from that mess are being tested for the TL.

As with all other early build issues on this car, I haven't heard anything specific from Acura. The vtec.net site does; however, have a forum with some threads specifically pertaining to this issue.

It was smart for you to decline delivery as the customer service and corporate response have been about as well planned out as Chevrolet's release of a car named 'Nova' to the Mexican market back in the '70's.

I have a 6MT on order and am looking forward to testing it when taking delivery. I don't have high expectations for the tires; however, exhaust resonance is a much bigger issue as there are few potential fixes for it.

lindros2

bgronek -- the tire issue is related to the Turanza EL-42 tires on the auto cars.

I haven't heard of issues with the Potenzas on the 6MT.

Tread

Edko, I hope your are ok, have not heard from you since that last post. Take easy deep breaths, all will be ok.

bgronek

Potenzas are actually an upgrade for the 6MT. Most come with the 42's.