TangLed2005

I've had my 05 'TL for over a year now. Noticed that when I drive over speed bumps or a very bad road with potholes and step on the brake moderately it feels as if the ABS is kicking in with the pulsing action. Specifically when I go over certain speed bumps this tends to occur after the rear wheels hit the speed bump with light to moderate braking at the same time.

Has anyone else experienced this issue?

weedeater

Your on the brakes when you hit a bump and are wondering why the ABS thinks a wheel is slipping?

gauravp123

that's exactly what I was going to say, if you're on the brakes while you're on speed bumps, the resonation from the bump to the tire will cause weird behavior...why are you on the brakes on speed bumps? is your goal to stop on top of the speed bump? usually, you'd want to brake "before the bump" enough, then either roll or accelerate slowly...that is one issue of your ABS going on....

rrickh1

i think hes trying to say, if you go over a little hole at high speeds or speed bump, and you try to stop or slow down before the hole becuase you spotted it late, but you run over it, and your on your brakes, the abs kicks in becuase the wheel slips.

This has happened to me before, it feels like the tire has lost its traction and the brake pedal tends to get a little weird feeling wich i cannot describe.

boo for living in ny ... one big pothole.

keith6945

You're funny

trancemission

that just happened to me today.

Glenn Davis

This is perfectly normal on cars equipped with ABS.
But here are a few things that can make it occur more often/noticeably:

1. Uneven tire pressures
2. High Tire pressures
3. Uneven tire wear
4. Alignment issues (but you'd probably notice a slight wiggle at the rear on bumps too)


Check those things and let us know.

TangLed2005

It's not normal to me and I have driven other cars with ABS and did not get such a response with light to moderate brake force.

I have a new set (3 months on the car now) of Toyo 4-Proxes tires (stock size 17"). 4-wheel alignment was done on it. Pressures are about 32.5 psi on all four.

Had this same issue since I bought the car and went back to the dealer to perform test drive with service writer to confirm issue. Service writer came back to me to say he understands the issue but stated that the company will say it is normal. If I wanted them to look at it they would need me to leave the car for a day. Didn't do that yet but wanted to see if this was a tire issue so waited and thought maybe in time the issue experienced would go away. Other than that, my only other gripes is the moonroof need more lubricant for tilt function and the dash is looking "ashen" after only wiping down with damp cloth. Never used any chemicals on it and never allowed car wash guys to use chemicals on it. I'll take that up with the dealer later.

My theory is that during the time the tires hit the speed bump, the stiffness or design of the suspension causes the tire to momentarily lift off the ground. With light to moderate brake force, this is enough to cause one or more of the wheels to experience lock up, hence ABS senses this and triggers. In this case, I can't blame it, it's only doing its' intended job.

For all those others talking about slip. ABS is there to prevent lock up when the vehicle is still in motion to minimize the stopping distance. If you have a slip that would be due to brake fade. Off the tangent, for TL A-spec owners with upgraded rotors and brembo brakes, have you experienced this ABS trigger issue going over speed bumps.

Anyways, I posed this question to the forum to see if anyone else experienced this issue just to be sure I didn't buy a car that was the only one that had this issue.

I've driven BMW vehicles as well and never had this issue. Toyotas and Lexus' as well. I've always tended to brake before the speed bumps and ride the brakes through. But because this car is more sporty, I tend to hit the bumps harder.

I didn't mention it before but this happens while braking over very bumpy road surfaces while going into a sharp turn and going into driveways where the road is curved downward and the driveway entrance is curved upward. It's also like hitting a speed bump idea. I normally hit the brakes lightly when entering driveways.

That's it for now. Any other comments is appreciated.

flatfoot

quote It's not normal to me and I have driven other cars with ABS and did not get such a response with light to moderate brake force.

I have a new set (3 months on the car now) of Toyo 4-Proxes tires (stock size 17"). 4-wheel alignment was done on it. Pressures are about 32.5 psi on all four.

Had this same issue since I bought the car and went back to the dealer to perform test drive with service writer to confirm issue. Service writer came back to me to say he understands the issue but stated that the company will say it is normal. If I wanted them to look at it they would need me to leave the car for a day. Didn't do that yet but wanted to see if this was a tire issue so waited and thought maybe in time the issue experienced would go away. Other than that, my only other gripes is the moonroof need more lubricant for tilt function and the dash is looking "ashen" after only wiping down with damp cloth. Never used any chemicals on it and never allowed car wash guys to use chemicals on it. I'll take that up with the dealer later.

My theory is that during the time the tires hit the speed bump, the stiffness or design of the suspension causes the tire to momentarily lift off the ground. With light to moderate brake force, this is enough to cause one or more of the wheels to experience lock up, hence ABS senses this and triggers. In this case, I can't blame it, it's only doing its' intended job.

For all those others talking about slip. ABS is there to prevent lock up when the vehicle is still in motion to minimize the stopping distance. If you have a slip that would be due to brake fade. Off the tangent, for TL A-spec owners with upgraded rotors and brembo brakes, have you experienced this ABS trigger issue going over speed bumps.

Anyways, I posed this question to the forum to see if anyone else experienced this issue just to be sure I didn't buy a car that was the only one that had this issue.

I've driven BMW vehicles as well and never had this issue. Toyotas and Lexus' as well. I've always tended to brake before the speed bumps and ride the brakes through. But because this car is more sporty, I tend to hit the bumps harder.

I didn't mention it before but this happens while braking over very bumpy road surfaces while going into a sharp turn and going into driveways where the road is curved downward and the driveway entrance is curved upward. It's also like hitting a speed bump idea. I normally hit the brakes lightly when entering driveways.

That's it for now. Any other comments is appreciated.[/QUOTE]

I am also a nyc, er and totally agree with your symptons. That was my biggest and basically only complaint about my tl, that was acuras problem.
From the day I had it, I experienced vehicle control kicking in for no reason. I must have had them look at it three or four times, and starting to doubt myself.
Upon test driving other new cars on same roads, from looking at toyotas for my brother, to me test driving bmw, chrysler 300, lexus, infini, none of these cars do it.
I now have an m35x, and the controls do not kick in all the time unexpectantly.In fact, I think I have only felt them two or three times, but then not even sure. The person who I sold the car now to, is complaining to acura about this(I had discussed this with him, before sale), and he is being told by acura, this is normal. It doesnt sound normal to me.
With the tl, I would be making a left or right hand turn doing maybee 15 miles an hour and it would kick in.
My car was kept in 100 percent condition, as well as tires. So you are not alone my friend.
Thanks

khiyal

And one more with the same experience. People in NYC can experience this on almost any street For someone who wants to try it, make a right turn on Broadway from Queens Blvd at 10/15 mph and hit the brakes lightly, you will replicate the symptoms easily.

flatfoot

What has service told you the problem is, or do they deny it also? Where do you service the car? Do you also hear the squeel from the abs also?

Thanks

TangLed2005

Thanks for everyone's replies. I appreciate all the input. We should always expect and get higher quality. Especially when we have to fork over 30K for this machine. You'd expect to be "WOWed". After all, I'm sure the new Honda Accords don't have this problem. And they are built from same basic chassis frame!!!

Of course service was probably told that this issue should be stated as normal. Who wants to have a recall on a design issue? Most likely an expensive fix too, I surmise. For now I'll drive it for what it's worth until I'm ready to move on. I'm glad I'm not so attached to cars anymore. They lose value fast and the novelty wears off fast because even the new Toyota Camry is more sportier now and starting to offer just as much as this TL does. The lines between the budget brand and the luxury brand has eroded to the point where it's no longer worth it to pay more for the luxury branding. Carlos Ghosn at Nissan made this statement himself and hates the industry players for doing this to themselves. I saw an article about Nissan coming out with many new models. Look out! These are the people we need to drive the products and make things more exciting and cutting edge.

I feel better now knowing that I'm not the only one that noticed this issue. Not that misery loves company. Just that I was very disappointed to have discovered this issue and have to live with it for a while. Of course when you test drive the car at the dealer, sometimes you may miss something like this because you are number one, not used to driving the machine and second, it's not your car yet so you take it easy lest you anger or scare the salesperson.

I noticed once, the VSA light momentarily came on when I was at a complete stand still at the stop light at the freeway onramp. I floored it and the light came on for about a 2 seconds and then disappeared. This never happened again the next time I tried it. Go figure. A phantom problem. In the end, I think Toyota Lexus has come up with better styling and performance nowadays. I used to own a 1998 Camry. It was great, reliable, smooth, but wasn't sporty enough for me. Moved on to a 1992 4DR Legend (and it really is a Legend-loved that machine!!! - sold to my cousin, the paint job even still looks better than my new TL ). Then decided to get a new car again and decided on the TL based on Consumer Reports high marks on it. I am extremely disappointed in CR for not mentioning this issue. I'm sure they had to have caught it. If not, shame on them. What kind of testing did they do??? They are supposed to be unbiased.

Anyways, my next new machine will be Lexus, BMW or Audi. I like the BMW or German suspension system design. Nothing gives you that sure road hugging feeling like a German suspension. The Japanese should learn from them and adapt a better suspension system. We vote with our dollars. I think Honda/Acura is too arrogant sometimes. Doesn't matter, Toyota will surpass everyone soon because they continue to push the envelope of innovation. Check out the new Scion Fuse design. I'm impressed as an engineer that they are offering so much innovation in a small package.

Anyways, that's my

flatfoot

[QUOTE=TangLed2005]Thanks for everyone's replies. I appreciate all the input. We should always expect and get higher quality. Especially when we have to fork over 30K for this machine. You'd expect to be "WOWed". After all, I'm sure the new Honda Accords don't have this problem. And they are built from same basic chassis frame!!!

Of course service was probably told that this issue should be stated as normal. Who wants to have a recall on a design issue? Most likely an expensive fix toociting and cutting edge.

I feel better now knowing that I'm not the only one that noticed this issue.


Just a side note. Acura on the second visit, said they did something, but wouldnt say what, and if I am still having the problem, they would change out the rotors. Their fix, worked for about two days and I brought car in a few weeks later, and they recut all four rotors, which cut down a bit on a brake squeel I was having, but not entirely, and the abs problem, was not fixed in the least by it.
A person, shouldnt have a new car, with brake problems from the get go.
Like I said, this was my ONLY acura related complaint about this car.
If I hadnt hurt my back overseas, I would still be driving the tl, and pursuing the brake situation. Now the new owner has taken up the fight.
It really doesnt affect the braking performance at all, but when you have someone with you in the front seat as a guest, and they hear brake squeel around a simple turn, it really doesnt impress at all.

Thanks

TangLed2005

Thanks for the feedback flatfoot. I talked to my ex-boss about it and he said it may be just the way Honda engineers programmed the ABS system. Maybe the problem can be alleviated with program change. I think they need to program the ABS to kick in only when the system senses that you are using full brake force on the brake pedal.

Also, I think you may be on track about the brake rotors and pads. Maybe the choice of pads and rotors characteristic action is mismatched with the brake pedal forces applied. Maybe excessive hydraulic action based on the amount of brake force movement on the brake pedal? Something along those lines at least.

Oh well. When I have the time and inclination, I will go to the dealer soon and have them do the run down. After that, if no corrective action is given to me, I will escalate this to 3rd party for resolution on this matter. I'll treat it as a critical safety issue for braking systems. Maybe I will stir things up a bit and get some satisfaction for all 3rd generation TL owners. We shouldn't have to put up with "not up to par" designs from Honda. I will keep you all posted later.

Actuary

It's normal for TL. It didn't happen for mustang with 15inch wheels w/2channel ABS.

khiyal

All normal according to service at Acura Westchester. The squeel is very much there, and tro be honest, brakes are one of my major dislikes with the TL.

TheNip73

Happens to me everyday at a certain intersection. There is a little bit of a ridge where the pavement is cracked and the ABS goes on there everyday. It is very annoying, but I've learned to deal with it. In my opinion this car is a bit ABS happy.

Greg-ster

Some of you guys need to learn a bit more about your cars and stop whining...

You hit a hole, ditch, or bump while applying moderate brake force - one or more tires momentarily becomes airborne and LOCKS. Your ABS system is functioning properly. Find another car with ABS, and your experience will be similar...

Flooring it from a stoplight and seeking the VSA triangle light up - your tires would have spun if VSA wasn't on. At least you have the option of turning it off; enjoy turning off VSA in your new lexus.

MugenR

He's right though.. the Automatic TL's ABS engages a little too soon... I've never had a car engage it's abs while braking lightly through minor bumps. I've talked to other Auto TL drivers and they too complain that the ABS kicks in too soon. I did notice.. i dunno if this is coincidence, but if you turn VSA off, the ABS is watered down and doesn't engage as soon.

When i installed my BBK though, that ABS hesitation and retardedness went away. ABS kicks in ONLY when i need it to. Braking feels a lot smoother and firmer. Definatley stops faster.

Solution - get a BBK

TangLed2005

It was mentioned that the ABS is doing it's job based on preventing wheel lock. The idea is that the operation is not consistent with past experience and the conditions at which it occurs. Based on experience with driving many different variety of machines with ABS this is the first one that reacted in such a fashion. Now if, everyone moded their cars with stiffer suspension systems and larger wheels, we'd expect to hear more complaints about ABS issues. However, I haven't come across any. That is why the issue was brought up.

With respect to the VSA, it's to prevent wheel spin. We know that it's a traction control subsystem. It just happened I noticed the light come on momentarily. The manual states that the light comes on when VSA is manually switched off. So when the light comes on by itself tells me there maybe something amiss with the system. Therefore I wanted to see is a recurring issue and bring it to the attention of the dealer.

If you think about it, how do you think products get improvement? If no one said anything and just accepted things the way they are, change would not come about and businesses would never try to improve upon it because they think the customer is getting what they want. Do you really think that all the bugs are worked out in production before released from the factory? You'll be amazed how much bugs make it into the real world. You'd be amazed how much human contact there is to produce every kind of product we use and enjoy. It's designed by humans and made by humans which introduces errors.

Just look at Microsoft Windows. They come out with updated almost every week to address OS issues. Pretty soon we get new revisions and iterations of product. That's what drives the product cycling and keep us coming back for more.

Everyone has their own tolerance with certain issues and limitations of the product (a car in this case). All we are looking for in this forum is a place to seek information from others and voice opinions. Maybe there is a solution others have found to get around minor problems. If not, we escalate the issue to the dealer and the dealer escalates the issue to the manufacturer to seek resolution. If you are satisfied with what you have, that's fine. I have no problem with that. Even some guys prior poked fun about stopping at the top of the speed bump. I couldn't help but chuckle. It was funny... We sometimes have to step back and look at the big picture too. Sometimes we are overly critical of minor stuff. Overall the product performance is pretty good. There aren't too many upgrade options to get but the Spec.-A treatment. Otherwise, it's pretty much a stocked machine with little options to purchase. If you look at Scion, that's another story. The intent there is total customization for the millenium generation.

Anyways, No more lectures. I'll keep it short in the future. Peace

weedeater

I believe it also states that the light comes on when the system activates.

I learned about over 10 years ago with my first ABS car (Volvo Turbo) that this effect will occur when braking into potholes and bumps. Hence I leaned NOT to brake into potholes and bumps. But that's just me.

TangLed2005

You got me there on the VSA light. I've learned to change my braking habit on the speed bumps and this becomes less of an issue. But it's more difficult to control on rough terrain.

We are told that we shouldn't brake when we encounter a pothole because it will cause more damage to the suspension and alignment.

Anyways, I'm dealing with it for now. Got more higher priority things to worry about than this machine.

Thanks for your input.