Rating of Factory Window Tint (OEM)
05-26-2004, 07:25 PM
#1
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Rating of Factory Window Tint (OEM)
Pardon the cross-posting. This was a response on a separate thread but I thought it important enough to have it's own title.
The factory tint is about 75% (corrected from original posting of 95%) light passage. This is relevant because:
1) There seems to be consensus that the TL needs to have moleskin/felt installed or the tint is likely to get scratched. Tinters routinely tell you they don't know what you're talking about- they've never had a problem and done a million TLs. They lie. They don't want to take the door panels off. You can get the whole kit for $25 delivered from flnxs (member here) and do it yourself. Thorough directions and photos included.
2) If you have Navi, page 3 of the Owner's Manual say DO NOT put metallic tint on the back window. All Llumar tint is metallic except for the cheapie dyed film. However, Huber Optik and Formula One have a ceramic tint made specifically for Navi/AM radio reception. I got Formula One Pinnacle. It's pricier than metal but not as high as Huber Optik. Shops will also tell you that they've put a zillion metal tints on TLs with no problems. They're still lieing.
3) pull the housing off of your 3rd Brake Light before you send it for tinting because they're going to do it anyway and it only goes back on tight about half the time (see poll taken on another thread). At least, if you're doing it, you can make sure it's done correctly. It just pops down with two friction pins at the front of the housing (toward front of car).
4) I got Pinnacle 35 which is rated at 38% light passage. However, the factory has a slight green tint to keep heat out. It's rating is about 75%. My combined light passage, as measured by a certified police tint meter is 32%. The law is 30% in Florida but they don't give you a ticket unless you get darker than 28%. However- it looks really dark. See picture link below. I mention this because you can deduct about 6% for the factory tint from whatever you put on it. (I will start a new thread with this info).
5) Pinnacle is the premium new film from the high performance, premium arm of CP Films which also makes Llumar. It has a high heat rejection factor. I put 15% on the back window. Net is about 11% (very dark) but I know, and now so do you, that the police meters are made to slide over the open window: the glass goes up inside the meter. There's no way to do that with the back glass window. So, it looks dark... But can you prove it?
6) 80% of the HEAT comes into your TL via the front and back windows. That's because they are much bigger and at an angle. With my set up as described, I cut the heat entering the interior about 65% over stock which already cuts it about 15%.
Ergo, my Black TL in Florida is no hotter than my red BMW. Both have light colored interiors. The interior color is a bigger factor for absorbing sun and heat than the exterior color. The body panels are well insulated.
In fact: your rear inner fender wells are upholstered in an all-weather fabric. Did you know that? Reach under and cop a feel. You'll be surprised. So will your friends. What will these Acura people think of next?
Come to think of, after reading some of these Chicken Little postings, maybe what I'm feeling is my headliner? :lol2:
XP
The factory tint is about 75% (corrected from original posting of 95%) light passage. This is relevant because:
1) There seems to be consensus that the TL needs to have moleskin/felt installed or the tint is likely to get scratched. Tinters routinely tell you they don't know what you're talking about- they've never had a problem and done a million TLs. They lie. They don't want to take the door panels off. You can get the whole kit for $25 delivered from flnxs (member here) and do it yourself. Thorough directions and photos included.
2) If you have Navi, page 3 of the Owner's Manual say DO NOT put metallic tint on the back window. All Llumar tint is metallic except for the cheapie dyed film. However, Huber Optik and Formula One have a ceramic tint made specifically for Navi/AM radio reception. I got Formula One Pinnacle. It's pricier than metal but not as high as Huber Optik. Shops will also tell you that they've put a zillion metal tints on TLs with no problems. They're still lieing.
3) pull the housing off of your 3rd Brake Light before you send it for tinting because they're going to do it anyway and it only goes back on tight about half the time (see poll taken on another thread). At least, if you're doing it, you can make sure it's done correctly. It just pops down with two friction pins at the front of the housing (toward front of car).
4) I got Pinnacle 35 which is rated at 38% light passage. However, the factory has a slight green tint to keep heat out. It's rating is about 75%. My combined light passage, as measured by a certified police tint meter is 32%. The law is 30% in Florida but they don't give you a ticket unless you get darker than 28%. However- it looks really dark. See picture link below. I mention this because you can deduct about 6% for the factory tint from whatever you put on it. (I will start a new thread with this info).
5) Pinnacle is the premium new film from the high performance, premium arm of CP Films which also makes Llumar. It has a high heat rejection factor. I put 15% on the back window. Net is about 11% (very dark) but I know, and now so do you, that the police meters are made to slide over the open window: the glass goes up inside the meter. There's no way to do that with the back glass window. So, it looks dark... But can you prove it?
6) 80% of the HEAT comes into your TL via the front and back windows. That's because they are much bigger and at an angle. With my set up as described, I cut the heat entering the interior about 65% over stock which already cuts it about 15%.
Ergo, my Black TL in Florida is no hotter than my red BMW. Both have light colored interiors. The interior color is a bigger factor for absorbing sun and heat than the exterior color. The body panels are well insulated.
In fact: your rear inner fender wells are upholstered in an all-weather fabric. Did you know that? Reach under and cop a feel. You'll be surprised. So will your friends. What will these Acura people think of next?
Come to think of, after reading some of these Chicken Little postings, maybe what I'm feeling is my headliner? :lol2:
XP
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triax37 (11-10-2011)
05-26-2004, 09:18 PM
#3
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No problem. There have been many separate threads. I thought it might be useful to put the info in one place.
It seems almost everyone is getting tinted. It's almost mandatory in the south.
It seems almost everyone is getting tinted. It's almost mandatory in the south.
05-26-2004, 09:29 PM
#4
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Thank you for summarizing everything from 10 threads. This has been helpful in that I am getting ready to tint my SSM/Ebony. I couldn't get to your pics without having to enroll in the site. Can you post pics another way.
05-26-2004, 09:39 PM
#6
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Thread Starter
Safe..
Originally Posted by HI50
Thank you for summarizing everything from 10 threads. This has been helpful in that I am getting ready to tint my SSM/Ebony. I couldn't get to your pics without having to enroll in the site. Can you post pics another way.
If you're not comfortable, just make up the information- psuedonym- whatever. They don't care.
It's the only way I've figured out to post pictures for now.
XP
05-26-2004, 09:42 PM
#7
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One statement that may appear mis-guided. Llumar tint works "just fine" 100% of the time in my black-on-black 2004TL. Mine is Llumar "Stealth" but I don't know if that is a special kind or not but this Llumar stealth works without ANY problems.
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05-26-2004, 09:46 PM
#8
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Thread Starter
Originally Posted by PetesTL
Are most tinting shops using Lumar tint as the "standard" brand?
There are lots of cheapie, Flea Market, dyed films but they don't last long and turn purple in a year or so.
For a good tint job with Llumar metallic (non-Navi), expect to pay about $100 to $139. For special non-metallic (ceramic) tint $220+.
XP
05-26-2004, 09:55 PM
#9
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Thread Starter
Originally Posted by ndabunka
One statement that may appear mis-guided. Llumar tint works "just fine" 100% of the time in my black-on-black 2004TL. Mine is Llumar "Stealth" but I don't know if that is a special kind or not but this Llumar stealth works without ANY problems.
If you are in a Metro area with strong GPS and AM signals, you might not perceive the degraded signal. But, on the road, I am afraid you would.
05-26-2004, 10:21 PM
#10
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Thread Starter
Metal film vs. Navi
From the Llumar Website:
STEALTH Dyed Heavy Metal
.....................% Visible Light % Total Solar Energy % Visible Light % UVLight
......................Transmission*......Rejection ...............Reflection.....Rejection
ATR 05 ST SR HPR......7....................68.................. ....12..................99
ATR 18 ST SR HPR.....19...................62................... ...12...................99
ATR 30 ST SR HPR.....30...................50................... ...12...................99
ATR 38 ST SR HPR ....39...................46....................... 11..................99
ATR 50 ST SR HPR.....52...................40................... ....11..................99
See page #3 of the Navigation Owner's Manual re: Metallic Film on rear window.
If you're getting good performance, good! I'm happy for you.
STEALTH Dyed Heavy Metal
.....................% Visible Light % Total Solar Energy % Visible Light % UVLight
......................Transmission*......Rejection ...............Reflection.....Rejection
ATR 05 ST SR HPR......7....................68.................. ....12..................99
ATR 18 ST SR HPR.....19...................62................... ...12...................99
ATR 30 ST SR HPR.....30...................50................... ...12...................99
ATR 38 ST SR HPR ....39...................46....................... 11..................99
ATR 50 ST SR HPR.....52...................40................... ....11..................99
See page #3 of the Navigation Owner's Manual re: Metallic Film on rear window.
If you're getting good performance, good! I'm happy for you.
05-26-2004, 10:38 PM
#11
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Well I just had to comment on your calculations for tinting %. You just can't really add or subtract %s. They are actually closer to a multiplication.
Example: Lets say you had 50% from factory and installed 50% tint you'd be much closer to letting 25% pass than 0%. Its actually more complicated than that but this is close enough so 32% = 38% * x% so x is approx. 84.21% which is closer to what I've heard of it being ~85%
Example: Lets say you had 50% from factory and installed 50% tint you'd be much closer to letting 25% pass than 0%. Its actually more complicated than that but this is close enough so 32% = 38% * x% so x is approx. 84.21% which is closer to what I've heard of it being ~85%
05-26-2004, 10:58 PM
#12
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Thread Starter
You're right.
Originally Posted by oscart
Well I just had to comment on your calculations for tinting %. You just can't really add or subtract %s. They are actually closer to a multiplication.
Example: Lets say you had 50% from factory and installed 50% tint you'd be much closer to letting 25% pass than 0%. Its actually more complicated than that but this is close enough so 32% = 38% * x% so x is approx. 84.21% which is closer to what I've heard of it being ~85%
Example: Lets say you had 50% from factory and installed 50% tint you'd be much closer to letting 25% pass than 0%. Its actually more complicated than that but this is close enough so 32% = 38% * x% so x is approx. 84.21% which is closer to what I've heard of it being ~85%
85% of 38 is 32.3. 32 is a direct measurement from the meter. I was trying to make it easier for the TL owner to calculate his combined tint.
It would indeed be more accurate to multiply your tint films rating by .85. (I will confirm this with a meter reading on the stock glass tomorrow.)
However, subtracting 6 still works (in general) for the medium tints around 30-35%.
That's consistent with my initial guesstimate that the OEM tint was 85%. I'll post the results after I measure it. Thanks.
05-27-2004, 10:05 PM
#13
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Thread Starter
Very Important Correction!
Originally Posted by xpditor42
You are correct. I was over-simplifying.
85% of 38 is 32.3. 32 is a direct measurement from the meter. I was trying to make it easier for the TL owner to calculate his combined tint.
It would indeed be more accurate to multiply your tint films rating by .85. (I will confirm this with a meter reading on the stock glass tomorrow.)
However, subtracting 6 still works (in general) for the medium tints around 30-35%.
That's consistent with my initial guesstimate that the OEM tint was 85%. I'll post the results after I measure it. Thanks.
85% of 38 is 32.3. 32 is a direct measurement from the meter. I was trying to make it easier for the TL owner to calculate his combined tint.
It would indeed be more accurate to multiply your tint films rating by .85. (I will confirm this with a meter reading on the stock glass tomorrow.)
However, subtracting 6 still works (in general) for the medium tints around 30-35%.
That's consistent with my initial guesstimate that the OEM tint was 85%. I'll post the results after I measure it. Thanks.
TO MY SURPRISE, it is 75%.
IOW, it blocks 25% of visible light and lets 75% pass.
As I said before, I installed Formula One Pinnacle 35 ceramic tint which is rated at 38%. Combined with my stock tint, the meter reads 32%!
Oscart, are you listening? Now I'm at a loss to explain this. Common sense (and a little knowledge of optics) says that it should read 38% (added tint) times .75 (stock tint) or 28.5%. Not 32%.
Something else is at work here. Perhaps it is the different surfaces and the refraction of the light?
Bottom line is that you're allowed to go as low as 28% on the front side windows in Florida. You can go to 15% on the rear sides and rear. So, I'm legal and it looks good.
If you want to stay legal in Florida, stick with 35% film because, added to the factory tint, it will take you right to the line. You can go darker in the back if you want but I prefer the balanced look on the sides and dark on the rear.
I apologize for that initial guestimate of 94% for the factory tint. I was off by almost 20%.
Spread the word: Factory tint on a TL is 75% as directly measured with a certified and calibrated tint meter.
XP
05-29-2004, 12:55 PM
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Very interesting... I was sure it wasn't going to be exactly the same as multiplying buti thought it would be closer... Now the experiment should be testing other tints that claim to be 38% and seing if the end result is still the same...
05-31-2004, 11:44 PM
#15
Moderator Alumnus
XP,
Ok, after thinking this topic over a few nights, trying to clear my mind a little bit... as oscart said above, we have to do some experiments.
Plate A: the window of 04TL is 75%.
Plate B: Formula One Pinnacle 35 ceramic tint is 38%.
IMHO, there are three possible factors which will interfere/change the final reading.
1. theory of multiplying should be correct in this case. AxB=final result.
2. Accuracy of Plate B: reexamine your original Formula One Pinnacle 35 ceramic tint, and see what's it's reading. make sure Plate B is 38%.
3. refractive index. This could affect transmittance of light. When usually testing Plate A and B, we have air in both sides of the Plates. Thus, we could try to have a few inches between Plate A and Plate B, then see if the result is the same as your final reading 32%.
4. polarization. This could change the direction of light and make less light come through the Plate. While Plate B adhere tightly to Plate A, the light coming through Plate A may have the different shooting angle into Plate B. We could set up Plate B a few inch away Plate A, and instead of setting Plate B parallel with Plate B, we have to test the different reading while having Plate B at 30, 45, 60, and 75 etc. degree angle. Then, we hope the outcome could tell us if the reading is varied by its angle.
Ok, after thinking this topic over a few nights, trying to clear my mind a little bit... as oscart said above, we have to do some experiments.
Plate A: the window of 04TL is 75%.
Plate B: Formula One Pinnacle 35 ceramic tint is 38%.
IMHO, there are three possible factors which will interfere/change the final reading.
1. theory of multiplying should be correct in this case. AxB=final result.
2. Accuracy of Plate B: reexamine your original Formula One Pinnacle 35 ceramic tint, and see what's it's reading. make sure Plate B is 38%.
3. refractive index. This could affect transmittance of light. When usually testing Plate A and B, we have air in both sides of the Plates. Thus, we could try to have a few inches between Plate A and Plate B, then see if the result is the same as your final reading 32%.
4. polarization. This could change the direction of light and make less light come through the Plate. While Plate B adhere tightly to Plate A, the light coming through Plate A may have the different shooting angle into Plate B. We could set up Plate B a few inch away Plate A, and instead of setting Plate B parallel with Plate B, we have to test the different reading while having Plate B at 30, 45, 60, and 75 etc. degree angle. Then, we hope the outcome could tell us if the reading is varied by its angle.
06-01-2004, 09:57 AM
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XP,
You are saying in your initial post that most tinters will tell you they have done X amount of TL's and no problems. You are saying basically that this is BS! How about the people that do not really have problems with there tint getting scratched. I've had my windows tinted for 3 months now, and I definetly open and close them a lot, and do not have a single scratch. How would you explain something like this than....
You are saying in your initial post that most tinters will tell you they have done X amount of TL's and no problems. You are saying basically that this is BS! How about the people that do not really have problems with there tint getting scratched. I've had my windows tinted for 3 months now, and I definetly open and close them a lot, and do not have a single scratch. How would you explain something like this than....
06-01-2004, 10:40 AM
#17
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Thread Starter
Happy for you, DopeTL04!
Originally Posted by DopeTL04
XP,
You are saying in your initial post that most tinters will tell you they have done X amount of TL's and no problems. You are saying basically that this is BS! How about the people that do not really have problems with there tint getting scratched. I've had my windows tinted for 3 months now, and I definetly open and close them a lot, and do not have a single scratch. How would you explain something like this than....
You are saying in your initial post that most tinters will tell you they have done X amount of TL's and no problems. You are saying basically that this is BS! How about the people that do not really have problems with there tint getting scratched. I've had my windows tinted for 3 months now, and I definetly open and close them a lot, and do not have a single scratch. How would you explain something like this than....
I can only speculate that the TL's hard rubber wiper ITSELF is not scratching the tint, but that it holds hard debris, like a grain of sand, against the tint because it doesn't have the soft, forgiving nature of the felt/moleskin which will "swallow" a grain of sand and act as a buffer.
I can further speculate that some tints are more scratch resistant than others.
I can't say why you have been fortunate- there are so many factors like the environment where you live and drive, how ofter you wash your car windows, etc.
There are others here who posted a message like yours and then came on a few days later to say, "Whoops! I spoke too soon."
The bright side is that you can always add the moleskin even after you have tinted, if you decide it's worth it. The kit only costs $25 including shipping and many of us have done it ourselves with no hassels. The directions are very complete with color photos every step of the way. The only tool you need is a Phillips Head screw driver and a pair of scissors to trim the end off the moleskin. You can do all four doors in about an hour.
It makes me feel better knowing I've done it because I had to get the expensive ceramic (non-metallic) Pinnacle tint because of the Navi and because I enjoy listening to AM radio now and then. I know my tint is guaranteed but I prefer not to go through the hassel. I hate to turn my new car over to unknown strangers to work on it! Nobody treats my TL like I do. Know what I mean, Dude? Peace of mind.
If you decide to wing it el nude-o, hey... Go 4 it and good luck!
XP
06-01-2004, 11:00 AM
#18
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good post about tint, you always see threads about tint but they are never consisten or factual. i've always understood that metallic tint screws up gps reception and causes general radio interference inside the car. but still people tend to dis-believe and saw "the shop's done it a million times". then they post on the forum that their gps doesn't work and they don't know why.
06-01-2004, 04:36 PM
#19
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Originally Posted by DopeTL04
XP,
You are saying in your initial post that most tinters will tell you they have done X amount of TL's and no problems. You are saying basically that this is BS! How about the people that do not really have problems with there tint getting scratched. I've had my windows tinted for 3 months now, and I definetly open and close them a lot, and do not have a single scratch. How would you explain something like this than....
You are saying in your initial post that most tinters will tell you they have done X amount of TL's and no problems. You are saying basically that this is BS! How about the people that do not really have problems with there tint getting scratched. I've had my windows tinted for 3 months now, and I definetly open and close them a lot, and do not have a single scratch. How would you explain something like this than....
You have nothing wrong with this. It only means the inner wipers of your windows never bring/stick any sands or big particles. As long as you never let anything be rolled into the wipers, you should be fine. IMO.
06-01-2004, 11:28 PM
#20
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iam getting mine tint done by a pro that only works on expensive cars like MB, ferrari, Lambo, Maybach and cars like that. he's lotated in brooklyn and iam going to him tomorow. its $150 add $25 for felt. and believe me he does a damn good job. he removes all the paneling and have a life time warrenty. if your intrested PM me and ill give you his #. ill let you know and post pics on how it went with mine.
06-25-2004, 09:58 PM
#22
Advanced
I am looking at getting 35% F1 pinnicle all around and above the AS1.
Xpditor... you happen to know if putting UVShield on the windshield below the AS1 is legal here in FLA? it is 70%, but blocks 99.9% UV-A and UV-B.
by the way.. here is a list of state laws
http://www.iwfa.com/iwfa/Law_Chart/S...aw%20Chart.htm
for the Canucks on the forum
http://www.iwfa.com/iwfa/consumer_in...vincelaws.html
Xpditor... you happen to know if putting UVShield on the windshield below the AS1 is legal here in FLA? it is 70%, but blocks 99.9% UV-A and UV-B.
by the way.. here is a list of state laws
http://www.iwfa.com/iwfa/Law_Chart/S...aw%20Chart.htm
for the Canucks on the forum
http://www.iwfa.com/iwfa/consumer_in...vincelaws.html
06-26-2004, 01:34 AM
#23
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Thread Starter
My thoughts...
Originally Posted by Agent47
I am looking at getting 35% F1 pinnicle all around and above the AS1.
Xpditor... you happen to know if putting UVShield on the windshield below the AS1 is legal here in FLA? it is 70%, but blocks 99.9% UV-A and UV-B.
Xpditor... you happen to know if putting UVShield on the windshield below the AS1 is legal here in FLA? it is 70%, but blocks 99.9% UV-A and UV-B.
Another consideration is that the police tint meters used here require the edge of the window to be inserted into the foam slot on the meter. That's impossible to do on the front or rear window for obvious reasons.
XP
06-26-2004, 07:02 AM
#24
Senior Moderator
Hey Rets
Can you put this in the "TL Garage"? xp's first post is informative and complete.
Thanks XP and Rets....
Thanks XP and Rets....
06-26-2004, 08:35 AM
#25
Cesspool of Knowledge
Originally Posted by Xpditor
...
1) There seems to be consensus that the TL needs to have moleskin/felt installed or the tint is likely to get scratched. Tinters routinely tell you they don't know what you're talking about- they've never had a problem and done a million TLs. They lie. They don't want to take the door panels off. You can get the whole kit for $25 delivered from flnxs (member here) and do it yourself. Thorough directions and photos included.
1) There seems to be consensus that the TL needs to have moleskin/felt installed or the tint is likely to get scratched. Tinters routinely tell you they don't know what you're talking about- they've never had a problem and done a million TLs. They lie. They don't want to take the door panels off. You can get the whole kit for $25 delivered from flnxs (member here) and do it yourself. Thorough directions and photos included.
No moleskin. No problems. The tint scratching issue is is not a univeral problem, and seemed to be more common on the earlier production TLs. Getting the moleskin is cheap insurance, but I went with Diamond Tint's Lifetime "No-Fault" guarantee against scratching instead.
Originally Posted by Xpditor
2) If you have Navi, page 3 of the Owner's Manual say DO NOT put metallic tint on the back window. All Llumar tint is metallic except for the cheapie dyed film. However, Huber Optik and Formula One have a ceramic tint made specifically for Navi/AM radio reception. I got Formula One Pinnacle. It's pricier than metal but not as high as Huber Optik. Shops will also tell you that they've put a zillion metal tints on TLs with no problems. They're still lieing.
...
...
If you are desiring 100% metallic tint, you may be taking your chances here. All I know is that the Diamond tint wasn't a problem, and others in this forum have applied 100% metallic without affecting their radio reception.
06-26-2004, 10:53 AM
#26
Senior Moderator
Thread Starter
If it ain't broke, don't fix it!
Originally Posted by ¿GotJazz?
... FM reception is just as lousy as it was before applying the tint.
If you are desiring 100% metallic tint, you may be taking your chances here. All I know is that the Diamond tint wasn't a problem, and others in this forum have applied 100% metallic without affecting their radio reception.
If you are desiring 100% metallic tint, you may be taking your chances here. All I know is that the Diamond tint wasn't a problem, and others in this forum have applied 100% metallic without affecting their radio reception.
Those in fringe areas might be impacted more noticably.
I know from using my old hand-held GPS that I had to put it up on the dash to get good signals as it would not work well in a fringe area under the metal roof. Metal tint would probably look like a metal roof to an RF signal.
I'm happy yours is working well. For me, I decided to follow the advice in the Acura Navi manual re: no metallic tint. For all I know,
mine might have worked well but I chose not to take the chance. Same thing with the moleskin/felt.Usually a "liberal", maybe I'm an "auto-conservative".
XP
06-29-2004, 09:43 PM
#28
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Thread Starter
Things that go "bump" in the night!
Can anyone update us with some tinting experiences?
Has anyone else gone the moleskin route?
Has anyone developed scratches on their tint?
Anyone? Anyone? Buehler?
XP
Has anyone else gone the moleskin route?
Has anyone developed scratches on their tint?
Anyone? Anyone? Buehler?
XP
06-30-2004, 12:50 AM
#30
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well i got llumar platinum pluss tint and while i dont have the navi, the AM seems to work fine in the city (1070 for traffic reports)... and I dont remember who said this but about the antena being between the film and sky... well isnt the film then the antenna then the glass then the sky (im judging this from the liltte bumpy things that go around the windo)? So its not like its a metal sheet inbetween the two, so while there might only be distortion from the metalic tint shorting out some of the receptors.
Anywho since my parents wouldnt let me get the navi, i being a tenn rebelled, and got a bluetooth GPS reciever for my Pocket PC and i leave it back there and still get a pretty strong signal (4-8 sats) so maybe only the acura navi is effected...
Also no scratching yet, although i really want to mole skin it after i get back from my trip just to be safe...
Anywho since my parents wouldnt let me get the navi, i being a tenn rebelled, and got a bluetooth GPS reciever for my Pocket PC and i leave it back there and still get a pretty strong signal (4-8 sats) so maybe only the acura navi is effected...
Also no scratching yet, although i really want to mole skin it after i get back from my trip just to be safe...
06-30-2004, 12:43 PM
#31
Senior Moderator
Thread Starter
Didja?
Originally Posted by rets
If tomorrow I really remove my door panels, I will shoot some pictures with it...
I think he has updated the instructions. I sent him some recommendations.
When you remove the little black panel from behind the door handle, look for the little tab with a slight notch and use something very small to move the tab towards the center of the panel. It is a little catch. When you do that, it should pop right off. There are two screws behind that.
The panel fits down over a lip on the door at the top like this: /I\
So, when all the screws are out of the door, and you have pulled the clips out along the perimeter, you lift the panel up ^ to get it off.
When re-installing, be sure and get that top lip back over the edge close to the window opening or it won't be held tight at the top. That's what happened with (who was it, Lore?).
XP
07-01-2004, 12:30 AM
#32
Moderator Alumnus
Originally Posted by Xpditor
Rets, did you get the kit from flnxs?
I think he has updated the instructions. I sent him some recommendations.
When you remove the little black panel from behind the door handle, look for the little tab with a slight notch and use something very small to move the tab towards the center of the panel. It is a little catch. When you do that, it should pop right off. There are two screws behind that.
The panel fits down over a lip on the door at the top like this: /I\
So, when all the screws are out of the door, and you have pulled the clips out along the perimeter, you lift the panel up ^ to get it off.
When re-installing, be shure and get that top lip back over the edge close to the window opening or it won't be held tight at the top. That's what happened with (who was it, Lore?).
XP
I think he has updated the instructions. I sent him some recommendations.
When you remove the little black panel from behind the door handle, look for the little tab with a slight notch and use something very small to move the tab towards the center of the panel. It is a little catch. When you do that, it should pop right off. There are two screws behind that.
The panel fits down over a lip on the door at the top like this: /I\
So, when all the screws are out of the door, and you have pulled the clips out along the perimeter, you lift the panel up ^ to get it off.
When re-installing, be shure and get that top lip back over the edge close to the window opening or it won't be held tight at the top. That's what happened with (who was it, Lore?).
XP
XP, Sorry, I'm not gonna put felts into the panel, but just open it up and take a few pics. Too busy to do it today. Thanks for your tips...
06-30-2007, 10:01 PM
#33
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38% Tints on 75% Glass = 32% Explained
Originally Posted by rets
XP,
Ok, after thinking this topic over a few nights, trying to clear my mind a little bit... as oscart said above, we have to do some experiments.
Plate A: the window of 04TL is 75%.
Plate B: Formula One Pinnacle 35 ceramic tint is 38%.
IMHO, there are three possible factors which will interfere/change the final reading.
1. theory of multiplying should be correct in this case. AxB=final result.
2. Accuracy of Plate B: reexamine your original Formula One Pinnacle 35 ceramic tint, and see what's it's reading. make sure Plate B is 38%.
3. refractive index. This could affect transmittance of light. When usually testing Plate A and B, we have air in both sides of the Plates. Thus, we could try to have a few inches between Plate A and Plate B, then see if the result is the same as your final reading 32%.
4. polarization. This could change the direction of light and make less light come through the Plate. While Plate B adhere tightly to Plate A, the light coming through Plate A may have the different shooting angle into Plate B. We could set up Plate B a few inch away Plate A, and instead of setting Plate B parallel with Plate B, we have to test the different reading while having Plate B at 30, 45, 60, and 75 etc. degree angle. Then, we hope the outcome could tell us if the reading is varied by its angle.
Ok, after thinking this topic over a few nights, trying to clear my mind a little bit... as oscart said above, we have to do some experiments.
Plate A: the window of 04TL is 75%.
Plate B: Formula One Pinnacle 35 ceramic tint is 38%.
IMHO, there are three possible factors which will interfere/change the final reading.
1. theory of multiplying should be correct in this case. AxB=final result.
2. Accuracy of Plate B: reexamine your original Formula One Pinnacle 35 ceramic tint, and see what's it's reading. make sure Plate B is 38%.
3. refractive index. This could affect transmittance of light. When usually testing Plate A and B, we have air in both sides of the Plates. Thus, we could try to have a few inches between Plate A and Plate B, then see if the result is the same as your final reading 32%.
4. polarization. This could change the direction of light and make less light come through the Plate. While Plate B adhere tightly to Plate A, the light coming through Plate A may have the different shooting angle into Plate B. We could set up Plate B a few inch away Plate A, and instead of setting Plate B parallel with Plate B, we have to test the different reading while having Plate B at 30, 45, 60, and 75 etc. degree angle. Then, we hope the outcome could tell us if the reading is varied by its angle.
While I can't explain the "physics", I think I may have found the answer to this.
Assume a plain peice of glass is not 100% transmission. Let's say it's 88%. Then you look at your tint film and it is rated at 38%.
The 38% means the tint film plus the plain glass is 38% transmission. So take the following:
(0.38 / 0.88) = 0.432
Our stock glass is 75%. 0.75 x 0.432 = .324 or 32.4% net transmission. Just what Xpditor says is measured.
Also, when I asked my tints guy today, which film would pass state inspection he said 35%.
State law says 35% is the limit, but they will pass to 32% (I've read the law). The film is 3M and the "35" is actully 38% transmission. So, again, I'll net 32.4% (0.75 x (0.38 / 0.88)), which will pass state inspection.
I put this line or reasoning together from the tech data table info on this 3M pdf page and it works for the entire table.
http://multimedia.3m.com/mws/mediawe...6EVs6E666666--
06-30-2007, 10:19 PM
#34
Senior Moderator
Thread Starter
Well, consider this:
The 75% is an objective measurement with a police tint meter.... not a theoretical rating. Our OEM glass allows 75% of visible light to pass through.
The 35% is a theoretical rating of the Forumula One Pinnacle tint.
The 32% is an objective measurement with a police tint meter of the TL OEM side window glass with Formula One Pinnacle tint applied.
As rets has opined, the interfaces and airspaces may make a direct mathematical calculation inaccurate.
But the objective end result is what it is. Still legal in Florida, anyway. 32%
The 75% is an objective measurement with a police tint meter.... not a theoretical rating. Our OEM glass allows 75% of visible light to pass through.
The 35% is a theoretical rating of the Forumula One Pinnacle tint.
The 32% is an objective measurement with a police tint meter of the TL OEM side window glass with Formula One Pinnacle tint applied.
As rets has opined, the interfaces and airspaces may make a direct mathematical calculation inaccurate.
But the objective end result is what it is. Still legal in Florida, anyway. 32%
06-30-2007, 10:52 PM
#35
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^^ right, but you said that the Pinnacle 35 was actually measured at 38% transmission.
You also said your measured transmission with tints is 32%.
What I *think* is that plain, untinted, uncolored "standard" automotive glass is 88% transmission. This may be a fabricated standard for tint measurements and/or other ANSI type standards. And, it makes sense that even just plain glass is NOT 100% transmission - some amount of light will be reflected from a clear surface.
So, assume the "standard" clear glass is 88% and your Pinnacle rates, by their spec 38%. But I say it is 38% transmission when applied to "standard" glass. Why? My guess is because that is how the ANSI-type tint measurement standard is written.
Have you measured JUST the Pinnacle film all by itself? I am betting it measures 43.2% (or pretty close to it). And if not, then my theory is dead in the water.
My theory is that 38% / 88% = 43.2%. Then our stock 75% "real" glass times 43.2% = 32% total net transmission - EXACLTY what you measured and EXACLY what is in the 3M tech data table posted above.
You also said your measured transmission with tints is 32%.
What I *think* is that plain, untinted, uncolored "standard" automotive glass is 88% transmission. This may be a fabricated standard for tint measurements and/or other ANSI type standards. And, it makes sense that even just plain glass is NOT 100% transmission - some amount of light will be reflected from a clear surface.
So, assume the "standard" clear glass is 88% and your Pinnacle rates, by their spec 38%. But I say it is 38% transmission when applied to "standard" glass. Why? My guess is because that is how the ANSI-type tint measurement standard is written.
Have you measured JUST the Pinnacle film all by itself? I am betting it measures 43.2% (or pretty close to it). And if not, then my theory is dead in the water.
My theory is that 38% / 88% = 43.2%. Then our stock 75% "real" glass times 43.2% = 32% total net transmission - EXACLTY what you measured and EXACLY what is in the 3M tech data table posted above.
06-30-2007, 11:22 PM
#36
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Well, here's the ANSI standard: ANSI/SAE Z26.1-1996
I cannot find a "clean" copy on the internet, but it covers specifications and tests for glazing materials for automotive glass.
I cannot find a "clean" copy on the internet, but it covers specifications and tests for glazing materials for automotive glass.
07-01-2007, 03:44 AM
#37
Drifting
Originally Posted by Xpditor
2) If you have Navi, page 3 of the Owner's Manual say DO NOT put metallic tint on the back window. All Llumar tint is metallic except for the cheapie dyed film. However, Huber Optik and Formula One have a ceramic tint made specifically for Navi/AM radio reception. I got Formula One Pinnacle. It's pricier than metal but not as high as Huber Optik. Shops will also tell you that they've put a zillion metal tints on TLs with no problems. They're still lieing.
Even if you tinted your TL's windows with copper foil, you're navi should still function. It's much harder than you think to block RF signals.
A couple times in the lab, I was inside a specially constructed faraday cage, and found that I could still use my cell phone. (it rang, and I picked up and had a conversation).
first time it was because the grounding contacts on the metal door were bad, so signals leaked through the door seals.
the second time, it was because the tech neglected to isolate the network cables using optical-interconnects. So RF was entering the cage through the networking cables....
I can tell you that the you can't make a Faraday cage with the TL just by having metallic tints, because:
1.) The doors do not have grounding-contacts... RF will get through the rubber weather stripping quite easily
2.) The sunroof will allow RF to pass through it
3.) All of the wires running into the cabin will carry RF, because the cabin is not isolated using fiber-optics. All the wires can act as giant antennas going into the car.
4.) RF can enter the front windshield
5.) The metal used as shielding, needs to be grounded. The metallic particles in the tint, are not grounded. It will most likely act more as an antenna than it will a shield.
With all that being said, I have metallic tints in all of my cars, and the Navi works fine in all three of them. The two cars with XM also work fine with metallic tints. The AM/FM also works just fine in all three.
07-01-2007, 12:00 PM
#38
Senior Moderator
Thread Starter
Originally Posted by avs007
This is complete BS. I work with wireless technologies at work. We even have our own wireless lab complete with about a dozen faraday cages.
Even if you tinted your TL's windows with copper foil, you're navi should still function. It's much harder than you think to block RF signals.
A couple times in the lab, I was inside a specially constructed faraday cage, and found that I could still use my cell phone. (it rang, and I picked up and had a conversation).
first time it was because the grounding contacts on the metal door were bad, so signals leaked through the door seals.
the second time, it was because the tech neglected to isolate the network cables using optical-interconnects. So RF was entering the cage through the networking cables....
I can tell you that the you can't make a Faraday cage with the TL just by having metallic tints, because:
1.) The doors do not have grounding-contacts... RF will get through the rubber weather stripping quite easily
2.) The sunroof will allow RF to pass through it
3.) All of the wires running into the cabin will carry RF, because the cabin is not isolated using fiber-optics. All the wires can act as giant antennas going into the car.
4.) RF can enter the front windshield
5.) The metal used as shielding, needs to be grounded. The metallic particles in the tint, are not grounded. It will most likely act more as an antenna than it will a shield.
With all that being said, I have metallic tints in all of my cars, and the Navi works fine in all three of them. The two cars with XM also work fine with metallic tints. The AM/FM also works just fine in all three.
Even if you tinted your TL's windows with copper foil, you're navi should still function. It's much harder than you think to block RF signals.
A couple times in the lab, I was inside a specially constructed faraday cage, and found that I could still use my cell phone. (it rang, and I picked up and had a conversation).
first time it was because the grounding contacts on the metal door were bad, so signals leaked through the door seals.
the second time, it was because the tech neglected to isolate the network cables using optical-interconnects. So RF was entering the cage through the networking cables....
I can tell you that the you can't make a Faraday cage with the TL just by having metallic tints, because:
1.) The doors do not have grounding-contacts... RF will get through the rubber weather stripping quite easily
2.) The sunroof will allow RF to pass through it
3.) All of the wires running into the cabin will carry RF, because the cabin is not isolated using fiber-optics. All the wires can act as giant antennas going into the car.
4.) RF can enter the front windshield
5.) The metal used as shielding, needs to be grounded. The metallic particles in the tint, are not grounded. It will most likely act more as an antenna than it will a shield.
With all that being said, I have metallic tints in all of my cars, and the Navi works fine in all three of them. The two cars with XM also work fine with metallic tints. The AM/FM also works just fine in all three.
Your opinion is noted. Here is my actual experience:
My hand-held GPS will not function well, if at all, when I bring it into the center of the TL. I have to put it on the front dash so that it can successfully communicate with the satellites. Obviously, the metal shell of the car is blocking the signals. This is not theory..... it is actually observed and repeatable.
The same can be said for cell phone calls. I have had, on many occasions, to go outside of a building to make a phone call as there was too much interference on the inside. This again is a common and repeatable experience.
Your thoughts about RF signals, I believe, are dependent on the strength and frequency of those signals. Some are more amenable to being blocked than others.
The Acura Owner's Manual does not say that the Navi won't work if you use metallic tint. It says "...be aware that if the tint has metallic properties, it can seriously degrade or prevent GPS reception. This is because the GPS antenna is located under the rear window beneath the package tray." (TL Navigation System Owner's Manual, p.3)
Since Acura has no connection with tint makers or installers, they have no reason to say this if it were not true. Your suggestion implies that they are just plain ignorant of the topic. I doubt that. :shakehead
What does "seriously degraded" mean to the user? Fewer satellite hook-ups, slower resolutions, inaccurate resolutions, showing positions imprecisely, etc. I suggest that, if a person has always experienced this because he/she has always had metallic tint, then they have nothing with which to compare the performance of their Navi.....
In other words, they don't know it could be better, faster, more accurate.
In an area of strong satellite coverage, this may not be that noticeable. But the very purpose of Navi is for navigating new places while traveling away from home. This difference could become important at a place and time when you most depend upon it.
Bottom line is: Does the tint shopper want to save a few bucks and chance it? Or does the shopper want to listen to the advice of the car and Navi manufacturer, spend a few dollars more, and get the peak performance out of an accessory for which he has just spent $2000?
07-02-2007, 02:40 AM
#39
~Da Nocturnal Cheetah~
Originally Posted by Xpditor
This difference could become important at a place and time when you most depend upon it.
Bottom line is: Does the tint shopper want to save a few bucks and chance it? Or does the shopper want to listen to the advice of the car and Navi manufacturer, spend a few dollars more, and get the peak performance out of an accessory for which he has just spent $2000?
Bottom line is: Does the tint shopper want to save a few bucks and chance it? Or does the shopper want to listen to the advice of the car and Navi manufacturer, spend a few dollars more, and get the peak performance out of an accessory for which he has just spent $2000?
That's why I got ceramic...and no, I won't plug my faved place this time! LOL...
