dipkat

Ain't she a beau !?
Just need to replace the license place bracket that says 'www.sussmanauto.com'

fast-tl

That's EXACTLY What I would do, making sure that teh salesman and his manager knoew that you recognnized their bait n switch, and that tactic alone lost them the sale. It's questionable integrity when your product can't sell itself and you have to resort to games to make a profit.

cali TL

Don't go blaming the dealers for the switch on the 1000 dollar incentive + special financing. The TL dealer cash back started in mid july, but for august, they released the same program, but with more fine print. Quite a few dealerships totally overlooked this, because the special monthly programs come in the form of an email. In fact, our dealership delivered cars already that, because they used the special financing, they arnt getting the 1000 dollars back like they thought. I am actually having money taken out of my next paycheck because of it. You would be surprised how much of the stuff that makes a car salesman/dealership look bad is actually because of corporate practicies...

cgriffin33

cali TL, so what you're saying is that we should be responsible for dealers overlooking something. If you are told one thing, then they realize THEIR mistake, then it is exactly that, THEIR mistake not the consumer's. And the consumer should not be responsible for a dealer's mistake. I understand that corporate can make it difficult for a dealer, but bottom line is the consumer should be able to rely on a dealer to be truthful and not try and pull last minute changes.

cali TL

No not at all. All I am saying is that it was not some sort of scheme to get you to buy a car. The internet manager probably was not informed of program stipulations, as they were basically slipped under our noses. It is still a failure of communication at the dealership, but not the "bait and switch" technique mentioned in the head line. I dont see myself placing the blame on the consumer anywhere in my post. Are you sayin that because you were misquoted originally, then the dealership should stick with the price?

cali TL

In re-reading your posts dipkat, i see that you put down a deposit. At that point the dealership does owe you the price that you put down the money on. Taking a deposit without a signed purchase order is a huge nono, and that does sound like a slimey sales person.

GeeDeeBee

I've gone through this long thread and respectfully have a different point of view. I think this was, at best, a miscommunication. Given the timing, I think it was a honest screw-up on the dealer's part. The $1000 cash back vs. preferred financing is a recent development. It is an either or thing and it sounds to me like the internet department inadvertently included both in the price. I don't think it amounts to bait and switch that they were trying to correct their error and, ultimately, they stood behind the original quote. Likewise, I don't think it's unreasonable for the buyer to try and have the original quote honored, if possible. I think we're all so used to shady car dealers from our past that we default to thinking the worst even when a more reasonable explanation exists, which I think is the case here. In the end, the dealer did what a good dealer would do--stand behind their mistake. Remember, it's not the mistakes that define people, but how they respond and on this score, I think the dealer did right.

fast-tl

He didn't say anything about a thousand dollar incentive. He said they raised the price by a thousand dollar. Plus he'd already gotten the deal OK'ed. The first time was when they came to an agreement, then he received teh e-mail. The second OK was when he arrived at teh dalership WITH the e-mail and they checked it out again. It wasn't until the Sales Mgr saw an opening that the "game" began, and that was wrong, and SHOULD cost him the slae.

MichaelBenz

iTrader: (2)

I think I have read this three times over the past two weeks or so....still dont see the "bait and switch"? I think you may be using this term a little loosely. If it was a bait and switch...they would have been baiting you in there with a Navi unit or something...and then switching the deal out later to a cheaper unit or a used unit or something. There was no switch on their end...just bad negotiation tactics.

I havent kept up with the whole thread...so maybe you already filled us in...but I hope you went to another dealer. If this dealer wont honor something you had in writing...then think about what else they wont honor....

fast-tl

you forgot he should also mention acurazine.com and it's large audience of current, potential future, and potential repeat acura buyers.

fast-tl

Baited with one price, then switched to another. How could you NOT see that? Typically teh bait n sweitch is with the actual product, like you want red, but they only have bright pink. This time they baited him with an acceptable deal only to switch that out for one that was unacceptable. In the end, they acquiesced.

dipkat

To prove my point on how the sales people tried to bait-n-switch, here's the original email that went around.

________________________________________
Subject: RE: 2006 Acura TL from [un-disclosed] Acura
Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2006 15:06:04 -0400
From: [un-disclosed]
To: [un-disclosed]
Dipkat [changed],

Please print out the email and show it to [un-disclosed] the Sales Manager of [un-disclosed] Acura at [un-disclosed]. His phone is [undisclosed]
Base price - $31,966
The NJ sales tax is $2,237.62
Tags & registration $419
Out of the door price will be $34,622.62
Including wheel locks, floor mats & trunk tray.
Regards,

[un-disclosed]
[un-disclosed] Internet Representative
[un-disclosed] Automotive
[un-disclosed]
[un-disclosed]
www.[un-disclosed]auto.com
-----Original Message-----
From: Dipkat [changed] Yyyyyyy [mailto:[un-disclosed]]
Sent: Tuesday, August 15, 2006 5:35 PM
To: [un-disclosed]
Subject: RE: 2006 Acura TL from [un-disclosed] Acura
Hello [sales person],
Your quote is a little off my expectations. We have a deal, if you also throw in the following two:
- Acura all season floor mats
- Acura trunk tray

This should be easy for you as you can get it at dealer invoice price.

If you agree we will close the deal as soon as possible. Please send me a summarized quote, which I could then take it to your dealership in [un-disclosed].

Regards,

+ dipkat [changed]
[un-disclosed]


________________________________________
Subject: RE: 2006 Acura TL from [un-disclosed] Acura
Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2006 16:02:24 -0400
From: [un-disclosed]
To: [un-disclosed]
To take advantage of this opportunity to get a perfect vehicle for a great price, please print out this quote and bring it to our showroom. Ask for [un-disclosed] - Sales Manager, let him know that [sales person] sent you the quote and he'll help you out.
We are located at 538 Route 38 E in [un-disclosed], NJ 08052.

[un-disclosed]
[un-disclosed] Internet Representative
[un-disclosed] Automotive
[un-disclosed]
[un-disclosed]
www.[un-disclosed]auto.com
-----Original Message-----
From: Dipkat [changed] Yyyyyyy [mailto:[un-disclosed]]
Sent: Tuesday, August 15, 2006 3:58 PM
To: [un-disclosed]
Subject: RE: 2006 Acura TL from [un-disclosed] Acura
[sales person],
Where is the car and the dealership located at?

Regards,

+ dipkat [changed]




________________________________________
Subject: RE: 2006 Acura TL from [un-disclosed] Acura
Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2006 13:26:48 -0400
From: [un-disclosed]
To: [un-disclosed]
Dipkat [changed],
[un-disclosed] Advantage package does not have any cash value, so it cannot be a discount.
The NJ sales tax is $2,237.62
Out of the door price will be $34,622.62
Are you going to register the car in NJ? If yes, you'll have to pay NJ tax. If not, you'll have to pay tax at the state where the car will be registered.
Regards,

[un-disclosed]
[un-disclosed] Internet Representative
[un-disclosed] Automotive
[un-disclosed]
[un-disclosed]
www.[un-disclosed]auto.com
-----Original Message-----
From: Dipkat [changed] Yyyyyyy [mailto:[un-disclosed]]
Sent: Tuesday, August 15, 2006 1:13 PM
To: [un-disclosed]
Subject: RE: 2006 Acura TL from [un-disclosed] Acura
Hello [sales person]:
Since I stay in West Windsor, NJ, I will not be using the [un-disclosed] Advantage. Can you discount the price for not using the [un-disclosed] Advantage?
Thereafter, can you calculate the NJ Sales Tax (7% ?) and tell me my 'Out-the-door' price?

Thanks,

Regards

+ dipkat [changed]




________________________________________
Subject: RE: 2006 Acura TL from [un-disclosed] Acura
Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2006 12:51:37 -0400
From: [un-disclosed]
To: [un-disclosed]
Dipkat [changed],
If you want to finance the deal, the price for TL with Navigation will be $31,966, which includes EVERYTHING except tax and tags.
We do have the Albaster Silver Metallic with Ebony on the lot right now.
You have to be qualified for the 2.9% Acura Special financing for 36 months. I can fax you the credit application, so we'll be able to put it in the system and get all answers befor you come to the showroom.
- Car will have less than 20 mi. on it when delivered - YES
- Car will have Acura OEM wheel locks YES
- Car wil be detailed and delivered with full tank of
gas -YES
- Car should be in-stock. No dealer trades. YES
- If deal is made, will check the car before signing
paperwork - YES
- Deal will be closed and the car delivered on the same
day - It's possible, if you wish to wait for PDI and detailing OR you can put a deposit with your credit card , scedule the delivery day and time and finalize the deal and pick-up the TL at the same time.
- Please mention all fees in your quote;
- Base price - $31,966
- Destination fees - included
- NJ Title/License/Registration fee $159 + $260 (4-year registration for NJ)
- Any other hidden fees (Save the Panda fee ??) NO
Regards,
[un-disclosed]
[un-disclosed] Internet Representative
[un-disclosed] Automotive
[un-disclosed]
[un-disclosed]
www.[un-disclosed]auto.com
-----Original Message-----
From: Dipkat [changed] Yyyyyyy [mailto:[un-disclosed]]
Sent: Tuesday, August 15, 2006 11:28 AM
To: [un-disclosed]
Subject: RE: 2006 Acura TL from [un-disclosed] Acura
Hello [sales person];
I do not know what Edmunds.com sent you. Therefore can you kindly confirm the following;


Looking for a new 2006 Acura TL, Auto, Navigation,
Albaster Silver Metallic with Ebony
Interested in dealing only if the following criteria is
met;
- 2.9% Acura Special financing for 36 months
- Have excellent credit history
- Fico score more than 760
- Will finance $20000, remaining in cash
- Car will have less than 20 mi. on it when delivered
- Car will have Acura OEM wheel locks
- Car wil be detailed and delivered with full tank of
gas
- Car should be in-stock. No dealer trades.
- If deal is made, will check the car before signing
paperwork
- Deal will be closed and the car delivered on the same
day
- Please mention all fees in your quote;
- Base price
- Destination fees
- Documentation fee, if any
- NJ Title/License/Registration fee
- Any other hidden fees (Save the Panda fee ??)

If interested please email/contact me.

regards,

+ dipkat [changed]



________________________________________

> Subject: 2006 Acura TL from [un-disclosed] Acura
> Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2006 11:20:56 -0400
> From: [un-disclosed]
> To: [un-disclosed]
>
> Hello Dipkat [changed] Yyyyyyy,
> Here is your [un-disclosed] Fast, Fair and Friendly Hassle-free price on the 2006 Acura TL that you requested.
> The [un-disclosed] fast, fair and friendly hassle-free price is determined by many factors such as vehicle availability, market value, the amount of time the vehicle has been in inventory, color, consumer rebates, manufacturer incentives and customer demand. Our price is a guaranteed REAL PRICE that includes everything except taxes and tags. There are no hidden charges or missing fees. You can drive the car home at the quoted price with a full tank of gas today.
> To take advantage of this opportunity to get a perfect vehicle for a great price, please print out this quote and bring it to our showroom.
> We are located at 538 Route 38 E in [un-disclosed], NJ 08052.
> Trim Level Full MSRP Internet Price
> TL $33,940.00 $29,205.00
> TL with Navigation $35,940.00 $30,966.00
>
> [un-disclosed] Acura is happy to provide you with this exclusive fast, fair and friendly price plus tax and tags, now thru the end of this month. This price includes all manufacturer incentives and [un-disclosed] discounts.
> Will you be adding any accessories that aren't part of the standard features? Have you test driven the TL or would you like me to schedule a test drive for you?
> Please check our great inventory of pre-owned vehicles at: <http://www.marty[un-disclosed]acura.com/>
> Do you need another reason to buy at [un-disclosed]? Every new car includes "The [un-disclosed] Advantage Package" with a retail value of up to $1,535. Click here for details
>
> Please feel free to contact me via email or on my direct line at your earliest convenience to let me know how you want to proceed with you vehicle search.
> Thanks and I hope to be of service soon.
>
>
> [un-disclosed]
> [un-disclosed] Internet Representative
> [un-disclosed] Automotive
> [un-disclosed]
> [un-disclosed]
> www.[un-disclosed]auto.com
>

In addition to the email quote, I personally also talked to the internet sales rep and she had confirmed that the sales manager at the dealership had agreed to the deal and that I should go to the dealership to complete the purchase.

When I walked into the dealership, the sales person and his line manager agreed to the deal. Finally, just before sigining the paperwork, they put the deal on hold, after they had checked my credit history, verified insurance and swiped $2000 on my credit card. The next day, the delership offered to rework on the price and presented me the price of $32300. When I rejected, then they finally honored the original deal at $31966

dipkat

Also, as I have specified earlier, they switched the finance company from 'Honda Finance' to 'Soverign Bank' the following day, without notifying me, at the time of signing the final paperwork.

fast-tl

The bank switch was likely needed because Honda wouldn't let them combine offers ($1k that everyone keeps mentioning PLUS the 2.9) so they just ate the grand, and had to find a bank to take you @ 2.9. No biggie there; that's just the dealership doing what they should've in the first freakin' place!

MichaelBenz

iTrader: (2)

Again...you are using this term incorrectly....

A bait and switch is a form of fraud in which the fraudster lures in customers by advertising a good at an unprofitably low price, then reveals to potential customers that the advertised good is not available but that a substitute good is. The goal of the bait-and-switch is to convince some buyers to purchase the substitute good as a means of avoiding disappointment over not getting the bait, or as a way to recover sunk costs expended to try to obtain the bait. It suggests that the seller will not show the original product or product advertised but instead will demonstrate a more expensive product.

What in fact they did was this....restack the deck after the fact...which is bad negotiation tactics...NOT A BAIT AND SWITCH. A bait and switch would have been if they lured you onto their lot with a Yugo, but then sold you on a TL. This wasnt the case...they NEVER switched the product on you. Just restacked the deck on the deal that was supposed to be finished.

rt4563

Hooray for the power of the internet!

Good for you for saving all those emails because you had an ironclad case. They pretty much had to acquiese to your deal. "Oh yeah, I guess we did say that, huh ..."

If your negotiations had been verbal (in person or by phone) you'd pretty much have been "Oh no, we never said that!" Bastards.

BTW I can't see the pix of your new car. Is it me or is there something going on with your server?

MichaelBenz

iTrader: (2)

^^Its you...show up here fine.

cali TL

I think the reason why me and some others are disagreeing are that we feel that a derogatory term like "bait n switch" should be saved for situations where a dealer is aware that they are advertising an impossible sale/imaginary product, because they want to attract customers. I think its pretty clear that in this case, that is not what happened.

phatbastard

Buy at the end of the month. They are trying to reach their sales goals by the end of the month, so you get better deals then for trying to hit quota.

dipkat

I disagree. You have no idea how it feels like to experience such. Switching the product as a few of you have said is not the only example of bait-n-switch. Only the dumbest of dumb would try to even pull-off that one when someone is buying a $35000 car. For $5 widgets, maybe, yeah. Switching the product would in my opinion tantamount to 'fraud'. 'Bait-n-switch' very aptly applies in this case as he switched the deal, or atleast fervently tried to.

dipkat

IMHO, 'Bait-n-switch' would be any false communication / improper methods employed by the dealer to get the customer physically into the showroom/dealership and then switching on the original communication.

MichaelBenz

iTrader: (2)

Nope...what they did is called "Low-Ball" you. They in fact...did not pull the classic bait and switch on you.

The "Low-Ball" Lie- This is often used when you're pre-shopping by phone. The salesman will give you a very low price (called a low ball) to get you to come into the store or dealership. Sadly, when you get there, the one you were quoted has been sold, but another even nicer model is available for just a little bit more. (It's a variation of bait and switch if they change up the product on you, but in fact....they didnt) Or apologies are forthcoming because a "mistake" has been made, and they can't sell the item for the price you were quoted. In either case, the aimed for result was to get your warm body into striking distance of one of their snakes. Then they have a chance to try one or more of the other deceptions on you. Sure, it makes some people so angry that they never go back to a store that "low balled" them - but unfortunately, others fall for it. You don't have to be one of them. Grab your wallet and run.

dipkat

Best quote on the thread so far.

fast-tl

I see your point, but I think your scope is too narrow. There are dealers that advertise Ford F-150s for $11K. It's not impossible, but go down there and find THAT one. OH, it was juuuust sold. Here, I say the bait was the price, and they knew once they had him in the door, they could "cross that bridge when they came to it" Whether it's a product or a price, when you lure someone with a promise then change the terms, it's the same thing. You get me to come down for free oil changes for lief, then when I'm signing my John Hackcock you can't pull it off, you've baited me with a freebie, then switched that out with the reality of no free lunch.

MichaelBenz

iTrader: (2)

I guess what I am saying is that you are using technical sales terms incorrectly and very loosely. It wasnt a bait and switch....plain and simple. They NEVER pulled the switch on you....just low-balled you, which in fact...is another technical sales term. Not a whole lot of difference to the consumer honestly....both piss off the customer....but in the sales world...is a HUGE difference.

Washington

If they accepted your $2000 after there was an agreed-upon price (the sales order you cite?) the deal has been sealed.

leedogg

I wouldn't call this a bait and switch so to speak as you initiated it by finding a good deal online then found an inexperienced salesman...or at least one who made a mistake in not catching that deal limitation to begin with. It was their mistake though and they should stand by it.

dipkat

Whatever we may call it, it was dirty sales tactics and least expected from a luxo brand dealership like Acura. Now that I have my new TL, the dealer. Once again, Thanks to everyone for all your help. . Time to leave the shit behind and discover my new TL.