Question for those driving in cold weather
Question for those driving in cold weather
01-03-2012, 03:33 PM
#2
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ABP_04TL (01-03-2012)
01-03-2012, 03:35 PM
#3
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Don't have a TL, but what Ravi said. As time goes by, you can sort of tell when the car is ready to start moving.
When my car's cold, it tries to idle higher than it normally does. Putting the car in gear then is essentially putting a brake on the flywheel, and it growls like it's pissed off.
When my car's cold, it tries to idle higher than it normally does. Putting the car in gear then is essentially putting a brake on the flywheel, and it growls like it's pissed off.
01-03-2012, 03:35 PM
#4
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nice topic! don't think i've seen it come up before.
in for answers.
in for answers.
01-03-2012, 03:37 PM
#6
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^what ravi said. a mintue is good and then keep the RPM's low (dont' shift past 3.5k) until the needle rises to a good spot.
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01-03-2012, 03:41 PM
#8
Team Owner
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OP - also keep an eye on your tire pressure. It will drop in the cold weather. When I leave my garage the tires are at 34. When I leave the parking lot they are at about 31. You will likely notice more flat spotting in the cold weather months.
01-03-2012, 03:43 PM
#9
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01-03-2012, 03:43 PM
#10
Can this topic get any more butchered? Seriously... IHC would slit someone's throat if he saw this thread.
https://acurazine.com/forums/showthr...hlight=warming
https://acurazine.com/forums/showthr...hlight=warming
https://acurazine.com/forums/showthr...hlight=warming
https://acurazine.com/forums/showthr...hlight=warming
https://acurazine.com/forums/showthr...hlight=warming
https://acurazine.com/forums/showthr...hlight=warming
https://acurazine.com/forums/showthr...hlight=warming
https://acurazine.com/forums/showthr...hlight=warming
https://acurazine.com/forums/showthr...hlight=warming
https://acurazine.com/forums/showthr...hlight=warming
https://acurazine.com/forums/showthr...hlight=warming
https://acurazine.com/forums/showthr...hlight=warming
https://acurazine.com/forums/showthr...hlight=warming
https://acurazine.com/forums/showthr...hlight=warming
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01-03-2012, 03:44 PM
#11
Race Director
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01-03-2012, 03:44 PM
#12
the overexplainer
it never goes below 40 here, but i sit for a few seconds then put her in first and use the higher idle to push me out of the spot. No throttle required. After that little push the idle drops to regular and i drive normally (shifting under 2.5k)
01-03-2012, 04:35 PM
#15
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I usually wait until after I get the okay from my navi.
I park in my garage so I don't usually have to warm my engine up as long as some.
I park in my garage so I don't usually have to warm my engine up as long as some.
01-03-2012, 05:44 PM
#17
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Me too. Maybe less than a minute (but, it's garage kept and not too cold here, so .... ).
I keep won't get frisky with the gas until the temp guage gets up to full operating temp.
01-03-2012, 07:24 PM
#20
i sit in the car for about 5 mins then drive off and until the car is pretty warm i generally take my time i try and stay off the pedal but other then that it shouldnt take u long to let it warm up a few mins and your good
01-03-2012, 07:34 PM
#21
On a cold start, my car RPMs start off around 1400-1500RPM. I let the RPM drop til about 1000-1200RPM than I drive off.
I don't let the car go over 2000RPM for the first 5 minutes of driving or until I hit the highway which is just about 3-5 minutes from my house.
I don't let the car go over 2000RPM for the first 5 minutes of driving or until I hit the highway which is just about 3-5 minutes from my house.
01-04-2012, 07:51 AM
#25
Keep Right Except to Pass
Since I park in the garage, it's not an issue, but I don't rev above about 3500 until the temperature needle reaches its normal position. I had two coolant leaks on a prior car in cold weather after driving on an Interstate-grade highway before the car had fully warmed up and I've always wondered whether revving too high too soon was part of the cause, so I figure it doesn't hurt to err on the side of caution.
If I do find that I have to park outside, I will turn the car on while I scrape the windows if I have to do that. Of course the main reason there isn't so much to warm up the car as it is to run the defrosters.
As others have said, it's pretty easy to tell when your car is warmed up, even if the temperature needle hasn't risen quite to its usual position. The car will be revving higher than usual at first and then the idle speed will drop when it's warmed up. For me that usually happens after a mile or two of driving.
If I do find that I have to park outside, I will turn the car on while I scrape the windows if I have to do that. Of course the main reason there isn't so much to warm up the car as it is to run the defrosters.
As others have said, it's pretty easy to tell when your car is warmed up, even if the temperature needle hasn't risen quite to its usual position. The car will be revving higher than usual at first and then the idle speed will drop when it's warmed up. For me that usually happens after a mile or two of driving.
01-04-2012, 09:43 AM
#26
01-04-2012, 10:30 AM
#27
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01-04-2012, 03:19 PM
#30
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-25 degrees Celsius in Toronto with the wind chill... so you guys can shut da eff up. 
01-04-2012, 04:43 PM
#31
Team Owner
Didn't we just have this exact discussion? If we merged all of the warm up, gas mileage, and transmission threads talking about the exact same thing, it would be tens of thousands of posts and 90% would be saying the same thing.
01-04-2012, 09:30 PM
#33
Safety Car
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Modern vehicles DO NOT require a warm up period. The absolute best thing you can do for the car is get in, start it and drive off NORMALLY. Dont go flooring it down the street, just drive normal until all the fluids can get up to normal operating temp. Anyone that says you need to warm your car up before driving off is incorrect. Also, people that store cars and start them and let them idle for 15 minutes are doing more harm than good. Cars are not designed to be started and just idled, they are designed to be started and driven.
I agree with the majority here, start her up and maybe give the car just a little time for the cold idle to settle then be on your way normally. Your car will thanks you :-)
Hope this helps,
James
I agree with the majority here, start her up and maybe give the car just a little time for the cold idle to settle then be on your way normally. Your car will thanks you :-)
Hope this helps,
James
01-05-2012, 12:39 PM
#35
Team Owner
Here we go from the last warming the car up thread from a couple weeks ago... This is why not many people are responding to this thread, we just had a big discussion about it. No one likes repeating themselves.
I saw this a while ago and ignored it but it went down the path I figured it would.
I agree with Turbonut. These cars get into closed loop operation extremely quick, within seconds. In the old days with a carburetor, with the choke on you usually had a very rich mixture, washing down the cylinders and diluting the oil which caused a lot of wear. The TL is running near stoich in under 30 seconds.
Mechanically, the piston to cylinder clearance changes the most from hot to cold. If you're hard on it before things tighten up it's possible to cause a little extra wear since the piston will be rocking in the cylinder. That applies to the rings as well. You want to get everything up to temp as quickly as possible without too much load or too many rpms.
A good synthetic of the correct weight will pump ok in most areas but there are some extremes where warming the oil is is required. It it ends up too thick, you can cavitate the pump and lose lubrication to the engine. Most of the time the cylinders are only lubed by splash off of the rod bearings so cylinder lube can be difficult when the oil is very thick.
Then there's the oil itself, many additives don't start working well until around 160F. It's been shown that most engine wear does not occur during startup but rather during the warmup process.
While water can be to full temp in 5 minutes or less, oil takes longer and you won't hit full core temp until 20 minutes or so. The gauge in the car might read normal but the oil can still be cold.
I agree with Turbonut. These cars get into closed loop operation extremely quick, within seconds. In the old days with a carburetor, with the choke on you usually had a very rich mixture, washing down the cylinders and diluting the oil which caused a lot of wear. The TL is running near stoich in under 30 seconds.
Mechanically, the piston to cylinder clearance changes the most from hot to cold. If you're hard on it before things tighten up it's possible to cause a little extra wear since the piston will be rocking in the cylinder. That applies to the rings as well. You want to get everything up to temp as quickly as possible without too much load or too many rpms.
A good synthetic of the correct weight will pump ok in most areas but there are some extremes where warming the oil is is required. It it ends up too thick, you can cavitate the pump and lose lubrication to the engine. Most of the time the cylinders are only lubed by splash off of the rod bearings so cylinder lube can be difficult when the oil is very thick.
Then there's the oil itself, many additives don't start working well until around 160F. It's been shown that most engine wear does not occur during startup but rather during the warmup process.
While water can be to full temp in 5 minutes or less, oil takes longer and you won't hit full core temp until 20 minutes or so. The gauge in the car might read normal but the oil can still be cold.
Yep, block heaters are somewhat common up there. Most are water heaters, just a freeze plug with a heating element in it. The nice thing is instant heat from the heater. The only problem with those is the oil picks up very, very little heat from it if any so you still have to take it easy for a while. I would almost want to try one of those stick on pads for the oil pan to warm the oil although you wouldn't get the benefit of instant heat out of the heater.
There's a big margin of error when it comes to cold start and warm up techniques. It only becomes critical when the oil is thick enough and the rpms are high enough to cavitation the pump. Then you run into near instant lubrication failure. I doubt there are many places in the continental US that get cold enough to cause this. Back in the old days people ran straight weight paraffin based oils in really cold climates and survived. Mixing kerosene with the oil was somewhat common in very cold climates which blows my mind but they survived. We have it easy these days.
The steady state 1,800rpm very low load condition of the highway is an excellent way to warm everything up quickly without excessive wear as long as you take it very easy accelerating up to highway speeds.
I did a few tests a year or so ago, accelerating onto the highway just as I would normally from a red-light and kept the throttle in the same position the whole way. What was a bit surprising is holding the throttle in the same position and not letting up, the car would hit 100-120mph. We use more throttle than we think in normal driving. That's why I'm not against the highway driving right after a cold start as long as you can take it very easy getting onto the highway. You're most likely spinning lower average rpm and using much less throttle to maintain a steady state speed. On the flip side, I had an on ramp next to my old office that was uphill and short and required just about full throttle the whole way to avoid getting run over. I would let it idle for at least 10 minutes in the parking lot or drive around the block a time or two before hitting that one.
There's a big margin of error when it comes to cold start and warm up techniques. It only becomes critical when the oil is thick enough and the rpms are high enough to cavitation the pump. Then you run into near instant lubrication failure. I doubt there are many places in the continental US that get cold enough to cause this. Back in the old days people ran straight weight paraffin based oils in really cold climates and survived. Mixing kerosene with the oil was somewhat common in very cold climates which blows my mind but they survived. We have it easy these days.
The steady state 1,800rpm very low load condition of the highway is an excellent way to warm everything up quickly without excessive wear as long as you take it very easy accelerating up to highway speeds.
I did a few tests a year or so ago, accelerating onto the highway just as I would normally from a red-light and kept the throttle in the same position the whole way. What was a bit surprising is holding the throttle in the same position and not letting up, the car would hit 100-120mph. We use more throttle than we think in normal driving. That's why I'm not against the highway driving right after a cold start as long as you can take it very easy getting onto the highway. You're most likely spinning lower average rpm and using much less throttle to maintain a steady state speed. On the flip side, I had an on ramp next to my old office that was uphill and short and required just about full throttle the whole way to avoid getting run over. I would let it idle for at least 10 minutes in the parking lot or drive around the block a time or two before hitting that one.
Two things that I think need to be addressed is lube is near instant and idling to warm up won't hurt anything but it may not be ideal.
A positive displacement oil pump will pump the same volume of oil per revolution whether its thick honey or like water right up until it hits bypass. As long as the filter has a decent adbv you've got lube in under a second. Cam lobes up in the top of the engine sit in a puddle of oil so no worries there.
Idling won't hurt anything in the old sense. The TL is running near stoich in full feedback mode in under 30 seconds so you don't have to worry about a rich mixture and all of the problems associated with it. As SouthernBoy pointed out, these are still mechanical devices so a little common sense goes a long way. Manufacturing tolerances (not clearances) may have gotten better but not a whole lot has changed mechanically since the '60s.
A positive displacement oil pump will pump the same volume of oil per revolution whether its thick honey or like water right up until it hits bypass. As long as the filter has a decent adbv you've got lube in under a second. Cam lobes up in the top of the engine sit in a puddle of oil so no worries there.
Idling won't hurt anything in the old sense. The TL is running near stoich in full feedback mode in under 30 seconds so you don't have to worry about a rich mixture and all of the problems associated with it. As SouthernBoy pointed out, these are still mechanical devices so a little common sense goes a long way. Manufacturing tolerances (not clearances) may have gotten better but not a whole lot has changed mechanically since the '60s.
01-05-2012, 12:41 PM
#37
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