anthracite_ftw

I bought an 05 manual TL today, with Type-S wheels, and tinted all around. Love the way it looks, and it's great fun to drive.

The only thing I find a bit strange about it is how long it takes the engine speed to drop when you depress the clutch. When upshifting, should I really have to pause for 1/2 second after I put the shifter into gear, before I can let the clutch out?

I've read many accounts from Civic SI owners frustrated with this issue in their cars, but I didn't find anything about it in these forums.

Feedback would be appreciated.

SouthernBoy

While RPM's do not drop as in days of old (there is a reason for this), engine speed should not hang nor increase between shifts. If you depress your clutch, make your shift, then wait a moment before releasing the clutch, engine RPM's will decrease then hold for a moment where they need to be for the next higher gear (this is a "feature"). However, if you are shifting normally, you should not have any problems with RPM hang or the RPM's dropping too slow. It is possible the prior owner shifted slow and waited a bit before releasing the clutch. The ECU would "learn" this driving habit and adapt to it.

Try disconnecting your negative battery cable for maybe 15+ seconds, then reconnect and drive the car as you normally would.

So a definitive answer to your question, "When upshifting, should I really have to pause for 1/2 second after I put the shifter into gear, before I can let the clutch out?" is NO, however I would bet that the time elapsed between gear insertion and clutch release is greater than 1/2 a second.

purple_illusion2

this is the first time I have heard of this "feature".
can you share more info on this?

ml3456

Anthra,

I notice the same thing. It's annoying but parts of Honda's ULEV certificate.

ML

SouthernBoy

You should be able to see this with your manual TL. Try this on a safe piece of road or large parking lot.

Start off normal and when you get to your 2-3 shift, depress the clutch and complete the shift while watching your tach fall off to the RPM at which you would be in third gear when you release your clutch (don't release your clutch as you are doing this). The engine speed will hold for just a moment (perhaps one to two seconds +-), then continue to drop down to idle unless you engage the clutch. I suspect Honda/Acura installed software in the ECU to do this as an aid to new manual drivers or to compensate for flawed shifts.

Anyway if you shift normally, you will never notice this.

SouthernBoy

Some manufacturers do this to help burn off residual fuel puddling in the intake manifold in order to satisfy EPA requirements or as you mentioned, their own requirements. The most aggressive case of throttle hang I have ever encountered was in my 2000 Ford SVT Contour and it was done deliberately to burn off fuel puddling in the intake. We SVT gearheads used to install a plug with a 7/32" hole in it in the air bypass to thwart this "feature" but within a few days, the ECU would get wise and compensate with idle speeds raised to around 1600 RPM. Great car but the throttle hang "feature" was a pain in the butt.

anthracite_ftw

Thanks for the help SouthernBoy. I had noticed the RPM-holding "feature" that you mentioned.

I tried disconnecting the battery to reset the ECU, but it still acts the same way. RPM's don't really "hang" when I clutch-in, they just fall a lot more slowly than what I am used to.

Anyway, I've been visiting friends and roadtripping along CA Highway 1 for the past few days, so I've had a chance to acclimate to the way the car drives.

On a related note, some punks in Santa Cruz almost stole the car while my friends and I were out running. Now I have a hole in my rear passenger window to deal with.

SouthernBoy

I am really sorry to hear this. Was any other damage done?

Yes, RPM's do drop off a little more slowly than some folks are used to, especially since our engine has an 11:1 mechanical compression ratio. But at least it doesn't hang or worse, raise between shifts. That'll make you nuts.

anthracite_ftw

Yeah, I've pretty much adjusted to the shift time now. It's just a little weird pausing for so long under harder acceleration.

Thankfully no other damage was done. They had found a spare set of keys I left inside the console (which they stole), and they were about to drive away when a guy in the parking lot confronted and scared them off.
I did get pretty lucky with the timing - had that guy walked by 30 seconds later, my car would be gone.

SouthernBoy

What I've done for years about a spare key is this. In the case of the TL, I keep the valet key in my wallet and my spare at home.

As for getting into it (hard acceleration), I have no problem with my '04 TL. There will be a jolt to the drive train and if a 1-2 shift or a 2-3 shift, the tires will spin a little (especially with the VSA off when doing a 1-2 shift). It's no big deal. You can't throw fast shifts with these cars because of the shifter size and its linkage. Neither is anywhere near as strong as American supercars of the mid 60's. With those machines, you could do some serious speed or power shifting.

Now that someone has your spare key, aren't you worried that they might come back and steal your car or did you have things reprogrammed with new codes?

anthracite_ftw

Yeah I usually leave the spare at home, but I was out of town this time.
I'm not really worried about the guys with the key finding it, as I live in a suburb with an extremely low auto-theft rate, over an hour away from where the incident occurred.
I'm pretty confident the would-be thieves got chased off before they could have found my address anywhere in the car. They didn't even grab my wallet or cell phone or anything else of value that was sitting inside the console with my keys.
If I go back there any time soon, I'll probably just use someone else's car.

I will be looking into some additional security measures though. I'm thinking steering wheel or pedal locks. VIN was already etched onto all windows, but I guess that didn't do much to deter them.

Regarding the fast shifting, jolting the drivetrain and chirping tires does feel a lot more natural than what I had been doing - waiting forever on a full-throttle 1-2 shift for RPM's to drop.
Turning VSA off surprised me with how much torque steer there is compared to my Dad's 5AT. The combination of LSD + shorter gears and more power put down by the clutch does make it a bit more exciting when you really get on it.

SouthernBoy

I have two 3G TL's. Mine is the '04 manual I mentioned and my wife's is an '05 automatic - both with Navi. So it's easy for me to compare how these two platforms perform and feel.

My '04 is quicker than the '05 however, I have to say that the '05 does have great torque multiplicaton in first and second gear. This is due to its very low final drive. The manual has a much higher final drive ratio than does the automatic, but the transmission gear ratios make up for the difference in the manual.

Incidentally, Acura likes to advertise that the manual TL has a close ratio transmission, however this is not true because the spread between first and second is two wide to be classed as close ratio. The remaining forward speeds are rather close.

As for a slower RPM drop between gears, the ECU is just not going to let that happen quickly. It's not at all bad once you're used to it and better than some cars I have driven. It has never given me pause for concern.

phee

iTrader: (5)

an aluminum flywheel should help the engine spin down and up faster should it?

i was under the impression that our dual mass (50-60lb) flywheel keeps spinning after clutch engagement because of inertia

SouthernBoy

No, your flywheel keeps spinning after clutch engagement for the same reason it keeps spinning during clutch disengagement. It's bolted to the crankshaft and as long as your engine is running, your flywheel is spinning.

denny crane

I keep the valet key in my wallet and my spare at home.

Isn't the key kinda bulky to keep in a wallet

SouthernBoy

A little but you get used to it. I don't keep my wallet in my back pocket when driving because it is a bit of a hindrance to me with the bolster (no, I'm not overweight - I just like comfort when driving). The way I look at it is it's better to have the valet key available should I ever lock myself out of my car than not have it handy. I also keep my spare key and fob at home.