geronimomoe

Check out the definition of lazy in the Merriam-Webster dictionary: disinclined to activity or exertion. Using the clutch is activity or requires some type of extertion. If you don't want to, isn't that by the definition of the dictionary, lazy? Hell, I don't want to go on the treadmill in my basement everynight. So am I lazy, yes. Also, if someone doesn't know how to drive a stick, then what other option does a driver have? That's right, an automatic. So I'm not sure you assertion that "It is ridiculous for you to state that drivers choose an automatic over stick strictly because they are lazy or don't know how to drive a stick..." holds that much water.

As for manual's being harder to sell, I'll give you that but, hey if you buy a car to have fun, you pay a little more per mile... Small price to pay. Also, I'm not looking for an "edge" as you assert a stick would give a driver. I like it because of driver involvement.

As for being more mature, who said it was a put down? As I said in one of my early responses, it wasn't meant to be an insult because of their transmission choice. The starter of this thread included the statement "..or don't know how to drive a manual transmission..". Is that a false statement given the fact that close to 85% (or so) of the cars in the US are sold as automatics because the public wants that? Don't think so.

Finally, some people who chose not to sit in traffic when commuting to work everyday find another way. Public transportation (trains or buses)

Eoanou

If you don't like racing, why get a Type-S?

Eoanou

You're right the TL isn't a race car, but some people get the manual to make their drive more enjoying. I mean if we went with that mentality then everyone would buy hybrids wouldn't they?

darksom1

There ya go Jason! That's what I'm talking 'bout! And you representing with NBP at that? You go boy!!!!

I know I weighed in on this, but damn, after reading all of this, I wanted to say something else. My first car I bought was a MT. I only knew the "basics" of driving it then. I was not nearly Racer X at that time like I am now. And no I don't speed on the regular, I just speed. Get it? Anyway, I was coming home today and taking corners like Adobeman said and ripping it, man it was just fun! I know it's not a Porsche or a Murcielago (spell that right?), but it's MY Porsche!!! And it's fun, and Imma get back in it and do it again the next time I crank it up!

Hey if you want an automatic then drive an automatic. I've had both. We know it's about preference, mostly with some pre-disposed conditions. We just all talking Sugar-Honey-Iced-Tea!! That's all. But make mine a 6MT baby! By the end of the month I will have the Comp SS (maybe bushings 2) and the GM SyncMesh Fluid in! Damn! Don't that sound fun? Well get you one and come on! The weather's breaking and so am I! Romantic drive? Hell yeah it's romantic Adobeman! I thought you knew!

- Ray

Final

How does FWD justify not getting manual? My FWD TL beats 90% of the cars on the road. G35 coupe is RWD, and my car literally destroys those, its not even worth the gas, and yes Ive gone up against auto and manual ones. The truth is that the TL is "fast" and it can be "racy." Id rather be in the seat of the TL than a G35 coupe anyday. I think the TL is nicer and a better build, besides the fact that rain or snow the G35 feels like its ice skating. If you purchase Aspec suspension or an aftermarket one it gives you a lot less toss at launch and much better handling, putting the, what did you call it? "racy" part into the the TL. Im more than happy with my 6MT TL and I would never have gotten it in automatic. The benefits are more than worth it speed wise, not to mention youre more attentive to the road.

jupitersolo

Why are you writing in the 3rd person.

geronimomoe

Don't forget what I ended the starter of this thread with "or don't know how to drive a manual transmission."

My wife doesn't know how to drive stick. Made me get rid of my SHO (stick) for an auto Civic (for harmony in our marriage)

Many of the early replies were addressing my statement regarding lazy. Doesn't not knowing how to drive a manual transmission force a car buyer to get an automatic?

geronimomoe

Your point is?

ttribe

It was never an issue of "definition", but one of implication. The word "lazy" implies something negative. Many people take exception to you implying they are lazy for making a choice like this...myself included. Frankly, I don't much care which one you PREFER, but I do care that you are making a judgment regarding my personal ethics based on the transmission I chose to get on my car. That just seems silly.

Furthermore, your tenuous argument that we who don't like stagnant traffic could choose an alternate form of transportation proceeds from a false assumption - that assumption being: that there is adequate public transportation available. In Phoenix, that's simply not the case. Plus, just because I don't like dealing with a clutch in stop-and-go traffic doesn't mean I don't still like driving my car...there's a lot I love about this car and the fact that I DO have a long commute is one of the reasons I sprung for the luxuries that come on this car.

geronimomoe

Who's judging ethics here? I'm sure not. If you CHOSE to read what was originally said as judging your ethics, look up ethics, the discipline dealing with what is good and bad and with moral duty and obligation Lazy is defined by the dictionary disinclined to activity or exertion. I'm not judging your moral duty or obligation.

85% or so of the cars sold in this country are automatics. I don't think anyone is arguing that statement. Yes as someone replied earlier, if there are physical limitations, (which I freely admit I forgot) then an auto is probably the only option.

Then are you saying that the rest of the drivers can't drive stick (which is what I said originally), are physically incapable, or 212 million people live in areas where the congestion is so bad that we're driving in multiple hours of traffic?

darksom1

I think there are enough variables to warrant someone going the route of not driving a stick. Then after all of that is said and done, there is just the plain old issue of preference. Some people just would rather reach for a soda or the radio dial and just relax than have to pay attention to the gears. There is no end to this debate surely, because driver enthusiasts, like myself, are going to prefer the exhilirating feel of being in control of the experience, vs. the "just want to relax and look good" in the lap of luxury crowd.

For every reason you think of or I think of why you should drive a stick or why it is not "excusable" not to drive a stick, they have a reasonable counter in their opinion of the debate. So there will be no winner in this. Because really, I think this is just simply about preference. Everything else, in some form or fashion, fits underneath that umbrella.

But me personally...lol.

ttribe

Obviously, I am saying nothing so extreme...if I was, you wouldn't have brought it up as an attempt to counter my statement. However, you are avoiding the crux of the argument - it's not about the definition. The word "lazy" implies something very negative when attached to the description of a person. Your opening post stated that anyone who doesn't choose as you do (in this case, the type of transmission on a car...I can't believe we are arguing about this), is by definition "lazy"...BTW, it's implied in the way you talk about people who don't know how to drive stick because they too, are "disinclined" to learn, which would require work. Therefore, by your definition - lazy.

I will leave physical limitations out of this, because it's obvious that there is no reasonable argument for laziness in that case and you've acknowledged that.

You ARE making a judgment of ethics when attaching a descriptor like lazy to any individual or group. My personal ethics (or sense of moral obligation) may require an above average "work ethic" which would definitely not be considered lazy. Nevertheless, you made a blanket statement which implies that the decision to purchase a vehicle with an auto or stick is the litmus test for laziness (which is how your posts have come off). If you want to state that I am a "lazy driver" by your definition, fine, I can accept that. But, to identify everyone who doesn't agree with your personal preferences with a broadly negative label is asking for a counter. In my very first post, I provided you with one - a lot of traffic, it DID impact my decision. It was only intended to be ONE counter.

By making an argument based on a blanket statement (i.e. all auto drivers are lazy) you left yourself open to the simple rebuttal which requires only one counter to show the falsity of your statement...if it has one exception your argument is false. Others have chimed in as well.

Now, let's try to re-cast what I think your point was (or should have been). Namely, that you enjoy driving this car when outfitted with a MT and you can't understand why someone would choose to have an AT on such a fine machine. Fine - that's a valid statement of preference which colors your perception of the world. I can accept that...it demonstrates our mutual passion for the car. However, I will not accept your broadly applied label based on your narrow definition.

tonester

iTrader: (1)

I would never consider buying any car that is not MT. I drive the rush hour traffic about 1 hour each way everyday and love my MT. When I was buying my 6MT, the dealer told me that acura only makes about 10% of their 3rd gen TL in MT and out of those, only about 2% of them had a Nav. It sucks that I live in So. Cal. and most So. Cal peeps don't know how to drive a MT or too lazy to learn because of the traffic congestion.

ttribe

RIGHT - YOU seem to get it! I had a stick when I owned an Integra (back in the day) and practically swore I'd never own anything other than a MT on car...time and circumstances changed my OPINION.

darksom1

You know that's going to bring up another 3 pages don't you Tonester?

Bad Tonester! Bad Tonester! LOL!

leedogg

gotta love flaim bait threads. Not gonna get involved with highschool level mentalities.

phatbastard

I am so glad I bought a manual transmission, even though i drive in las vegas daily in congested traffic about 20 miles each way from work, it doesnt really bother me. One thing with an auto is that i feel like i am constantly having to brake in congested traffic. Where with my manual i rarely have to brake just simply switch gears and then coast in that gear.

jupitersolo

Car Talk

A-TLvic882

30+ years and counting
It's very easy if you want to drive - get MT, if you want to be like passenger - get AT.

jupitersolo

So you've been driving since you were about 10-12yrs old?

Will Y.

Thanks for the compliment-- my wife usually says I act like a second grader...
By the way, there are so many more things you can do while driving an AT instead of a manual. For example, I can eat a doughnut and drink a coffee while talking on the phone in traffic...
And in SoCal, I have to have a hand free to reload the 9mm on the freeway.
OK, I'm done, as is this thread...
Somebody lock this before I post again...

brettallica

I love your spelling of the word "doughnut." You don't see that too often anymore. Props for that.

kennyc

They feed the trolls here.... it's amazing this one is not locked up yet.

A-TLvic882

yap, but not every day like now.

p.s. and i teach my kids too

geekybiker

Whoa whoa. When did we have to start being PC about the word "lazy" There are too many words out there that people disliked having applied to them and now are taboo. The word fits what we're talking about.

There are alot of things in our wonderful modern world that make us Lazy if we use them. Remote controls, washing machines, etc. They're all designed to make life easier. And yes if we choose to use them we are being lazy in that particular aspect of our lives.

It doesn't make anyone a bad person, or even necessarily say anything about your character in general. So yes, I embrace the fact that I am lazy in certain aspects of my life. Just not my transmission choice.

A-TLvic882

And I think we need a poll MT & AT for this thread not just car talk.