JohnCollins

Switches
28600-RAY-003
28610-RAY-003

Get two gaskets, also

90471-PW7-A00, 2-each

SCS15

iTrader: (3)

For anyone thats looking for some cheap redline atf let me know...i have 6 quarts for sale all still sealed..I guarantee my price is cheaper than ordering from somewhere else
https://acurazine.com/forums/car-parts-sale-361/6-quarts-redline-racing-lightweight-racing-atf-876370/

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iTrader: (4)

Ok so I've spent the last 2 days reading ATF threads since it's been so slow at work, I read the entire 26 page thread and this one. So what I'm getting from all of this is somewhere between 40% and 65% Type F does improve shifts and past that 65% it has no noticeable benefit or can possibly have negative effects. It seems like those that got near 100% Type F are taking some out and most of those who did just a 1x3 with it say they noticed a difference and some of those on a 2x3 noticed nothing extra.

So on to my situation, I bought my car last year with 87K miles on it, now at about 90, I took it back to the dealer after a few days after noticing a small shudder, I suggested they do the switches, they said they would do the fluid first and said they drained it twice and it went away (almost but not entirely, I did the switches on my own afterwards). So where I sit now I have about 60% DW1 which is synthetic, I'd like to remove a little FM and have it be mostly synthetic so I ordered 3 qts of the Redline Type F and will put it in shortly. This will have me at about 80% syn fluid and 40% of the overall will have no FM.

Can anyone make a convincing argument why I should go much past 40% on Type F or is it at a point of diminishing returns? Next change a few K miles down the road I'll probably do 2 qts D4 and 1 qt Type F to keep the percentages close enough and have nearly 90% better than Z1 synthetic fluids. After my 1x3 I'm assuming my other 20% or so of fluid is either Z1 or DW1 but I wouldn't know for sure.

JohnCollins

This may not be satisfying to you, because I am not 'a car guy'. But the interest in this seems to have died down a bit, and a major contributor is not active any longer, I believe.

Like you said, this is 26 pages. Why not just go with the flow and do this, without rethinking the whole thing? I did it and the tranny feels great. That's all I got. But in the 26 pages there is some pretty convincing stuff by the more technically inclined.

There's the recipe. Use it, you won't be disappointed. Hopefully you get something more satisfying posted after me, but if not, just do that.

That's Redline, BTW. I got mine from JEGS. Bought a case, enough for 4 changes. My 3 are done, I have one maintenance set of bottles left for the next one.

dcmodels

Says who? this response is not directed to this poster, but only because I can read an advertisement, Product data sheet, and MSDS (manufacturer's safety data sheet) as well as anyone else (I have an engineering degree), and there is no data presented anywhere that says DW-1 is a synthetic, not even a GRPIII type like Mobil-1. If it ain't in writing, it ain't worth ***

Which is why switching to RedLine, which is a 'real' synthetic (ester based), is such an improvement. It is important that readers of this thread understand just why the switch to RL is both an improvement in shifting feel, as well as better protection for both the clutches and gears in your trans.

So, despite being 'slapped' twice already, just in this thread, for the above statements, I weary of seeing invalid information (a lie?) repeated ad infinitum on the web.

And I decline to respond to nay-sayers: show me the meat.

dcmodels

I will offer one suggestion - regardless of the percentage of TypeF combined with whatever else you use, perform a 3x3 at zero, 200, and 500 mile intervals, with possibly a fourth 1x3 at an additional 1000 miles. Just check the drain plug magnet at each drain, for an indication of deposit material.

Normally, I would have suggested a 3x3 at 1K intervals, to slow the cleaning process of existing old deposits, and keep the newly suspended old-deposits at a lower level.

But now that you have already immediately had the dealer do a 2x3, you need to flush out any old deposits, say, 200 miles after the dealer 2x3. Type F may not have any FM (friction modifiers), but RedLine Type F certainly contains detergents.

The more quickly (shorter intervals) that fresh ATF is added, the faster that the additional detergents will clean any old deposits, and the faster that you need to remove them, with another drain/fill.

My reasoning is this: if your TL trans has never had an ATF drain in 87K miles, it will be varnished and sludged. Perhaps not badly but to some extent. That is likely the cause of your shift 'shudder'. And if you have a filter, not sure which models do and which don't, then be certain to change it, or add an inline filter.

Adding more and more fresh ATF will begin to clean up any deposits inside your trans. Adding a lot of new ATF at once can cause more suspended old deposts, from faster cleanup, than the ATF can safely hold in suspension, and this can clog switches, passages, etc.

And yes, even new non-synthetic ATF will clean old deposits, just not as well as a synthetic ATF.

TexanAttorney

Reading through the thread, I'm still a little confused as to why the 65% Racing ATF is being implemented with different formulas:

On the first page, the formula is:

• Refill #1 = 3 quarts Racing ATF
• Refill #2 = 3 quarts Racing ATF
• Refill #3 = 2 quarts Racing ATF + 1 quart D4

As the thread goes on, the formula becomes:

• Refill #1 = 2 quarts Racing ATF + 1 quart Lightweight ATF
• Refill #2 = 2 quarts Lightweight ATF + 1 quart Racing ATF
• Refill #3 (and subsequent) = 1 quart D4 + 1 qt Racing ATF + 1 qt Lightweight ATF

What is the advantage of the 2nd formula with the lightweight ATF, versus the first one of just using D4.

Anyone know which formula "Inaccurate" now recommends and is following?

My concern with the 2nd formula is ordering the ATF will be more expensive since you can't do a case of 12, it's a mix and match so you pay per bottle.

Thoughts? Recommendations? Feedback? Please

lusid

Just a FYI - D4 can be purchased on Amazon.

I'm not sure what other fluids are available on amazon but that's what I recall from memory.

swoosh

iTrader: (5)

TexasAttorney....lightweight ATF has a lower viscosity than the D4 and Type F but it is just like the Type F fluid, which is NO FM's.....hence the 2 formula will keep the same amount of FM's in the system but the 2nd one formula will have the mixture viscosity which will be closer to OEM....

TexanAttorney

I see, so formula 2 give OEM viscosity with 65% Type F.

Thanks!!

Anyone have suggestions on how to buy since you can buy a case with 3 different products.

Are you all buying the gallon?

swoosh

iTrader: (5)

TA, I am using straight Type F....

but when I was thinking of running the 3 mix juice, I thought of buying a case of 12 for each, mix matching them and putting 2 cases on the BM....you will get your money back

Rayray2188

Everybody is talking about Dw1 and Z1. Im new to this so where would i go to get these? Could i use Valvoline Max Life Atf?

350

iTrader: (4)

I'm guessing the Valvoline is a Dex 3/Mercon compatible fluid, that would be fine. Even the owners manual which says Z1 (superceded by DW1) says Dex 3 is okay but may cause harsh shifts. So yes any Dex 3 fluid is fine (superceded by Dex 6 which is synthetic). Brand choice and conventional/synthetic is up to you. Even with the Type F which has no friction modifiers the shifts aren't harsh so I wouldn't sweat Honda's warning.

swoosh

iTrader: (5)

Rayray did even read the thread?

If you dont know what friction modifiers do and how it affects your shifts, I recommend you change the pressure switches and stick with DW1

dcmodels

My local CARQUEST store sells most of the RedLine products for just under $9 per quart, no minimum order, only 1-quart if desired: ATF Racing, ATF D4, Power Steering fluid, 'street' engine oil in all available weights, etc.

But I have not found any source for RedLine LW Racing ATF, other than to purchase a case from my speed shop, or order online, at the retail price.

twigglius

iTrader: (6)

Ok so here's a question. I've read up and followed the optimal percentages of RATF but heres why im asking... my last drain/refill cycle was at 68, 000 miles. That was all redline D4. I also did 3rd and 4th gear pressure sensors. Now I am at 100, 000 miles and looking to drain/refill. At this point what should be my combination of fluids?

MEKO

iTrader: (1)

I use D4/F/Lightweight

That's what swoosh recommended me
Not too high, not too low...somewhere between

and I just did my 5th and happy with it.

I started at 104, right now at 122
Before 104k, I had Acura stuff in there

swoosh

iTrader: (5)

I have been running straight Type F and no complains here....done a 5x3 so far...

Hacura

Just go straight D4 instead of anything else. That's what I did back when this was still a work in progress. Now I'm on the trio...

ALarsh

A couple comments from my observations doing the drain & fill (2007 Type-S w/ 65,500 miles):

The fill bolt was really torqued on there. Make sure you can break the fill bolt free before draining the fluid.

I jacked up just the front of the car and left the rear of the car on the ground. I had exactly 4 quarts come out which I was happy with. This should be about 1/2 the fluid in the transmission. Why do you guys jack up the rear also if you can get an extra quart out by only jacking up the front? And it is also easier.

Thus, I replaced 2 quarts of Racing and 2 quarts of lightweight racing. I used about 2 feet of vinyl tubing I picked up at the hardware store to get it down to the fill hole. Made the fluid replacement really easy.

The change in how the car shifts is very noticeable. Shifts are much crisper and the shift takes noticabley less time. I am really pleased with how the transmission acts now. I have the sensors here to replace also but honestly do not see the need to replace them as the shifts are very crisp and definite.

Here is a picture of the fluid that came out after 65,500 miles on the car. I do not think the fluid has been changed before. I purchased the car with 45,000 miles.



This was at the bottom of the fluid, looks like some water was in the fluid:


Close up:


I wish I would have done the fluid change sooner. Very nice shifts, the fluid clearly needed to be changed and it wasn't too difficult of a project after running to the hardware store twice.

Thanks Inaccurate & AZ.

I hate cars

Judging by the color, that fluid doesn't look too bad.

Replace the switches, you will regret it later if you don't. It's just a few minutes of work and you already have them. They will save a ton of wear on the transmission.

One thing is for sure, your fluid has been changed before and probably not with Z1. My OEM fluid was changed at 16,000 miles and it was black. Z1 gets dark very quickly.

ALarsh

Thanks for the advice I hate cars. It is appreciated!

I purchased the car CPO from the Acura dealer, it is possible they changed it out at 45,000 miles when I purchased it..

I will switch out the switches after I complete all the drain & fills. Getting 4 quarts out at a time, I was going to do another 2 quart Racing, 2 quart LWR. Then on the 3rd drain I was going to do 1.5 Racings, 1.5 LWR, 1 D4... What do you think?

TexanAttorney

IHC, I have a 2007 MDX in addition to my TL. Would you recommend using the same fluid setup on that also?

Should I be changing switches on it also?

Thank you so much for all your contributions with this thread and others!!!

TexanAttorney

I did a 1x3 and switches, using the mix I mentioned above. It already shifts so much smoother. I'll do a 2x3 and 3x3 soon, and then the trans filter.

BTW, I found it very easy to fill through the dipstick, it takes a few more minutes but so much easier. I did all 3 quarts in maybe 10 minutes? Much easier than moving the fuse box and getting the fill bolt off.

350

iTrader: (4)

When I first bought my TL I took it back to the dealer to complain about the shifts, I suggested they do the pressure switches, the tech there said they never go bad on TLs (BS) and he only has to do them on MDXs and frequently. So yeah I'd swap them on the MDX. I wonder if that's the dealer knowledge going around and part of why the TL has such a bad rep for trans reliability. They said they only drained my fluid twice (when the service bulletins say to do a 3x3). Did the switches myself and the issues went away, and have done a 2x3 with 3 qts Racing then 2 qts Racing 1 qt D4. I'm sure the D4 is fine as it's a Dex 3 based fluid and even Honda says Dex 3 is okay other than a change in shift quality. So yeah do the switches and D4 is fine, no comment on other fluids. Sorry for rambling.

vginotes

Inaccurate:

Great Info!! But I'm a novice..I have a 99 TL and I want to do the d4/racing atf mixture, but how much should I drive or wait between refills?

AdamNJ

About 2 years ago I did a total of 4x3 using Red Line (8 normal, 4 lightweight). So after seeing this thread for the first time a few months ago and seeing what I think is the "flare" (does anyone have a video demo of this?), I now know I need to do a 1x3 and put in 2qts of red line D4 and 1 racing.

Previously I was able to use the shop my friend works at which has a level surface to work off of. That location is no longer available for me to use. My driveway is pitched heavily and my garage doesn't have much room and is slightly pitched.

So I am wondering is there another way to accurately pull out 3 quarts without being perfectly level?

ALarsh

I don't understand why people don't jack up just the front of the car and allow the fluid to drain out? 4 quarts come out with the front jacked up and the rear tires on the ground, now fill with 4 quarts.

Seems to me like its better to get 4 quarts out than 3.

Berat

iTrader: (1)

I performed a (3x3) using the method below. Would this be correct, this would be a first change on the car performed maybe 30+k ago and have had no issues. If I wanted to get to the 65% mark what would be my next steps, and for any subsequent drain-fills would I use the fxd4xlt formula.
fxfxd4
fxfxd4
fxfxd4

tg22ar

Im performing a 3x3 with the redline racing atf and 1 quart of redline d4. Along with trans filter change and the two sensors or switches. Just picked my TL up less than a month ago. Look forward to knocking this out.

swoosh

iTrader: (5)

^^^ I would also recommend a transmission cooler....

Timthetoolman

Are there any down sides to adding a cooler? Could it over cool in a very cold climate and reduce mileage due to increased viscosity? What is is ideal trans coolant temperature returning to transmission?

350

iTrader: (4)

If you live in a cold area, the shifts might be harsh a little harsh til it's up to temp, but that's probably only a half mile down the road...and technically more places it could leak but it's never a bad idea. Can't say ideal temp for this trans but if you're keeping it under 200 it should be good.

I hate cars

160 is a good temp and it usually agrees with the ECU so you don't get any weird stuff happening like no torque converter lock because the ECU is trying to warm up the fluid. Mechanically speaking you can't overcool a transmission. It would take a thick fluid at a very cold temp to even think about worrying about damage from being too cold.

The B&M style cooler has a built in "thermostat" where most fluid goes through the large top passage and bypasses the rest of the cooler below 160 degrees. Summit also makes a nice one with a built in fan and thermostat. You only run two wires and the hoses to it, it's all self contained. You can mount it out of the direct flow of air, anywhere you want really, and the fan will only come on when the fluid temp exceeds 160 degrees.

Keep in mind most people are referring to the sump or bulk oil temp when they talk about temperatures. The fluid coming out of the torque converter when driving around town can be well over 280 degrees and it can double in the clutch packs on a shift.

While a cooler is always a good idea, it's more for extending fluid life and less about extending transmission life although if the fluid can't hold up you'll shorten transmission life. Or the way I should say it is a cooler increases transmission life by extending fluid life.

xxtdxx

I may have completely missed the answer to this question...if I am going to do a transmission flush and refill what is the capacity of the transmission (in quarts)? I currently have the racing fluid that I've been running for a couple of years without any problems but want to be at the ~65% level after this refill.

swoosh

iTrader: (5)

^^^ capacity is 7.8qts but only 3qts come out

Tl4eva

iTrader: (5)

M loving this racing ATF.

swoosh

iTrader: (5)

so here is an update....

flashback:
147,000 miles: 1x3 Type F
148,000 miles: 1x3 Type F
149,000 miles: 1x3 Type F
150,000 miles: 1x3 Type F
165,000 miles: 1x3 Type F, 3rd and 4th switches and B&M transmission cooler....

After this I started noticing some flaring when the fluid was cold...it would go away when the fluid got hot...Also I noticed because of flaring the shifts weren't crisp and quick as they used to be...

I was due for another drain and refill at 180,000 miles and since I was sitting at 177,000 miles I went ahead and did a drain and refill with 2xD4 and 1xType F....after driving around for 2 days and around 100 miles, there is no more flaring, the quick shifts are back...they are nice and crisp....

Going forward I will be doing a 2xType F and 1xD4....

If you have any questions, you can post em here

ALarsh

Why are you using Type F fluid?

perilousp

I really hope he just forgot to use red text and that he's not seriously asking that...

But since I'm feeling nice and if you are serious, it helps your tranny in more ways than one, if you know what I mean