MareckD

I recently went to a Meineke Car Care Center (chain auto repair shop) in order to get a new starter put into my 04 TL. Now, normally I wouldn't goto a chain shop, however, it was the only place open on the holiday weekend. Upon getting the starter put into the car they informed me my rear brake pads were low. I inspected and agreed. Having gotten new rear pads only a few months ago, this also meant I needed a new caliper.

So, today I bring it in for two new calipers, pads, and rotors. When I got it back I noticed a severely less responsive brake pedal, and a chiming noise coming from the passenger side wheel (sounding like a pad warning grind). I was quick to bring it back to the shop and this is where things got really fun. They informed me that the pedal was due to a failing master cylinder. Why was it just now becoming less responsive? They told me because my brake fluid had lots of sludge in it and now that there is no sludge it is less pressurized. I have had my car in the shop approximately 5 times in the last 6 months and never once was told my master cylinder was faulty.

As for the squealing from the back wheel, he informed me that it was caused by me using the emergency brake too much when parked! He said it is worn out from using it (while not moving!). He proceeded to hit the E-Brake drum with a hammer to demo straight this. He also drove me in the car to show it would stop fine. He did this by constantly accelerating and braking from about 45-0 in 2 seconds each time. To my knowledge, this is something which should not be done with new (non-broken in) brakes. I'll toss in the fact that he picked up his phone and stared at it while driving in the aforementioned fashion in the middle of the drive.

So, my questions would be:

1. Could the absence of prior sludge really make the master cylinder/braking system act in this way?
2. Can simply applying the E-Brake often really cause damage? Is it more likely they hit it while replacing all the components around it?

I have contacted Meineke support and an investigation has been started into these claims.

Extra Information: 2004 Acura TL, Base w/ navigation, 189,500 miles

Turbonut

iTrader: (1)

1-No
2-Possibly/No

The ebrake shoes are inside the rotor hat, so there's no way they could hit the shoes unless they replaced the rotors, or had the rotors off to cut.
The noise may be the shoes hitting the rotor hat as the wheel/tire turns, if they are too tight. There's not much meat on ebrake shoes so if the car is driven with the ebrake on or rubbing, they can wear, but the need to change the shoes because of wear is very unusual.

The soft/less responsive pedal could be that the pads haven't seated in completely, or poor quality pads. As long as the pedal doesn't sink while at idle with pressure applied for a short period, I'd drive the car and see what it feels like in the future.

TacoBello

horseshoez

iTrader: (2)

Interesting, I've needed to replace calipers on several vehicles over the years, my 2001 Accord was the worst in that between 120,000 and 160,000 miles it needed all four calipers replaced.

RRP4ME

You don't need to replace your calipers unless they're seized and you can tell by the wear pattern on the pads or if it's just simply not retracting when pushing the piston back in to allow for the new pads to go on and over the rotors. They definitely pulled one over on you. You need to have your brakes bled properly. Mushy peddle is pretty indicative of air being in the system, ESPECIALLY after a caliper change.

truonghthe

1) Looks like someone forget to bleed the brakes or doing a half ass bleeding job.

2) Your e-brake shoe is rubbing against the rotor hat since they have to re-adjust the shoe (with a flat head screw driver through the rotor hole) every time replace the rotor (especially with non OEM rotor). And there is no damage by hitting the rotor hat from the outside.

BROlando

If they depressed the pedal to the floor after putting in the new calipers, there's a good chance they damaged the master cylinder.

Its bad practice to push the pedal further than "normal" travel...especially on older cars that haven't had regular brake flushes. Many people mash the pedal to the floor when bleeding brakes or after depressing pistons.

The TL MC is aluminum. But...its still not good practice.

Or.....your brakes may just need a simple proper bleeding.

Hopefully, the tech didn't do something foolish like letting the MC suck in air...or pinch the rubber brake hose with pliers.

Try having the brakes bled properly. I'd start there.

The E-brake thing sounds asinine AF.

BreezyTL

iTrader: (8)

When I first started dating my girlfriend, 5 years go, she always went to the quick lube oil change places. I never step foot in them just from hearing the horror stories. She knew I did my own work but still insisted to go to these places. Well I went with her one day and played dumb when talking to the techs to say all we want was oil and trans fluid changed. He came up to my window and asked me who inflated the tires last. I told him I did, and he continued to say they were inflated to 80 PSI!!! I continued to keep playing dumb, while inside laughing my ass, just to see what else they would try to sell us. Tried getting her to do $35 wiper blades, intake filter for $40, and a few other things. Quoted like $350 OTD or something ridiculous. That is when I broke my silence and asked to speak to a manager, but was told he was out sick that day. Those guys a thieves just like dealerships. Do your own work or find a friend that is knowledgeable.

txcharvel

Replacing the caliper? Sounds a bit sketchy but not completely far fetched.

Definitely true about mashing the brake pedal when there isn't enough fluid or pressure in the reservoir or brake lines. I've installed a few MCs and I'm always careful when I'm priming it not to push the piston in all the way. They could have ruined the MC. Accelerating and mashing the brake pedal probably didn't help things. If the pads were worn excessively, the brake job might have left you low on brake fluid, which made the mechanic mash the pedal hard, which damaged the master cylinder...and then he panicked and pulled the emergency brake. I hope not.

If the MC is toast it will start leaking from the back. The piston will leak and the fluid will run down the inside of the housing and out the back where it bolts up. Good luck.

MareckD

I replaced the calipers as there was uneven brake wear on one side. It was my choice to replace both and although it was not necessary, they did not charge much extra to add a caliper to the repair. Yes, I agree it was not bled correctly. The ebrake is functioning perfectly fine (even after he bashed it around with a hammer).

MareckD

Thank you to everyone that has replied. Continuing with my bad luck I got a flat tire and cracked rim today, and while it was being replaced I had them look at the brakes. This shop relayed to me about the same information from this thread and what I had expected, Meineke was BSing me. There is no leaking in brake fluid (in fact it is full past the max line), and I will be bringing it in tomorrow (hopefully to get the brakes bled properly). The MC seems to be in fine condition, and I am currently thinking there is simply air in the system. Also, I had a long discussion on the caliper with them and they seemed to have removed the guide pin before claiming the whole caliper a loss. Did they actually do this? I have my doubts at this point.

I will update this thread once my car is done in the shop tomorrow and once I hear back from Meineke support.

I will also never be going back to Meineke.

peter6

From the perspective of the wrenching guy working in one of those chain repair places, that's what we deal with all the time.

I checked brakes, car needs rears, one caliper is frozen. I tell service writer about it, and that I can try getting it loose, heat it up etc. worst case they need calipers. They come back with pads, rotors, two calipers, and coolant flush. Why? Who knows, but it's not my money and not my car, so I just do the job. Better replace it more often than not enough, right?

Car needs a brake flush? Procedure is to use that vacuum thingy, and you are getting paid $6 for doing it (despite having normal rate - those maintenance flush things are not worth doing), so you just get over with it. Who cares that it's not best way, and that there is much better machine (that pressurizes reservoir, pushing the fluid, instead of pulling it).

They love to sell all kinds of flushes on low mileage cars (scare people that they might lose manufacturers warranty), but when some car actually needs it, then they don't even try; this car has 100k miles, no way this guy is gonna buy a filter.



So come back and bother them until they fix it. What works good is getting other shop to check it out and write estimate/opinion and come back to the first shop. It must be on print!
And don't forget that they are not always lying. It's always good to try other shop (preferably not from a chain). Or use same chain shop in different location (if they don't have communication between them, my shop doesn't).

BreezyTL

iTrader: (8)

If you work at a chain repair shop why do shotty work to "just get over with it". You are putting peoples lives in your hands when you work on a brake system.

TacoBello

Greasy. Apparently ethics isn't your strong suit.

peter6

I'm trying to avoid doing those jobs as much as I can. It's second shop like that, and I'm not even going into automotive, so there's not much choice other that working for grocery shop or doing charity work.

When replacing brake system components, one of the guys jumps inside the car and pumps pedal while I'm operating bleeders. But we almost never do flushes.

Shop's official procedure is not great and might produce bad effects. I used vacuum bleader on my car, and ended up exchanging fluid with other guy pumping the pedal, as pedal was slightly soft after.


Comebacks that I was speaking about are mostly because of squeaking brakes. Cheapest pads and no new hardware. Shop's procedure is to slap better pads and change hardware, but that's after customer came back and complain enough.

So to summarize: I do bad work because it doesn't pay. I feel bad. There is only 2 years of school left and then I can forget about working for the shops.

Do your own work or somebody you trust. Avoid chains, as they might even mess up oil change.

BROlando

I think these comments are a bit dramatic.

Dude is doing the work per the procedure.

Chain shops exist for people who want to pay less. Paying less means you will likely see a compromise in quality. This isn't a new concept, is it?

Shops maximize efficiency. Techs are told to uphold that efficiency.

A lot of quality shops closed down because almost nobody cares about how the work is done. They just want the car to run as cheaply as possible. 99% of people wouldn't give a shit if their brakes didn't feel great, as long as the work was cheap and the car still kinda stops. They may not even notice.

People want 3 second oil changes for $2.99. They don't want to hear that a proper change takes longer and costs more.

So don't act surprised at this guy's attitude

But...not all chains are this way. I've seen plenty of them that do quality work.

Find a good place. Pay more if you have to. If you want to pay less, then roll the dice. At the very least...don't act SO surprised at the shoddy work afterward.