TBone2004

Does anyone know how this works? Meaning - I just gave my TL its first oil change - I was expecting the oil life to go back to 100% on its own. It did not so I re-RTFM and it says to reset it - which I did. One, it also reset my trip odometer - poor design, two, is this thing just on a timer or is it sensing the true quality/viscosity of the oil, or is it just going by miles on the oil? I guess I thought it was a little more sophisticated than just being a mileage tracker or hours of service tracker. Anyone know?

caball88

well what i was told that is determines the driving conditions. how hard you run the car, if its mostly stop and go traffic or highway traffic. dusty conditions(i dunno how they would sense that). but that will determine the oil life. for the most part it's definitely not a set mileage because people have reported the oil life meter at different % at different mileage. i have 2500 miles and its says 50%. i do about 70% highway driving but others have reported that the MID had them change the oil at 7K.

EFlecha

please please please TRUST the acura engineers..

OmegaTL

Unfortuantely it does not track viscosity. I hoped that it would, but it does not. I asked the same question awhile back and the conclusion was the same. If it was based on something such as viscosity, it would automatically sense the new oil. Oh well, disappointing yes, but I suppose it is all part of keeping the cost down. No biggie really. I just plan to follow the MID until I go synthetic (if I ever go synthetic) Discisions, discisions.

jbdezine

Mine is at 50% and I have less than 1500 miles. I am mostly city driving, so it must have to do with the average MPH (mile per hour) you put on the car.

Osteoman

mine is at 50% and I'm at 4000 miles. Almost all highway miles.

porsche911

Mine is at 70% with 2427 miles. Mostly combo driving, avg 22 mpg every fill up. I am planning on switching to Mobil synthetic when I'm due. I'm not sure what viscosity I'll switch to. Living in CA, it doesn't get below freezing hardly ever.

Any suggestions??

Zeuser

I think it's using engine hours instead.

TBone2004

Mine was at 90%, but I had 800 miles, so I usually like to do an early 1st change (the whole metal fibers/engine break in discussion) I will check it now that it has been reset and see when it drops. When does the "Service Engine" come on then? 30%?

caball88

i am sure you have read the arguments for too early of an oil change. there is suppose to be additives in the breakin oil to help the engine break in properly. i dunno who much truth there is to this or if it really even matters. i am just sticking to the manual.

cblackburn

I've got about 4500 miles on my car right now and my oil is at 40%. maybe 60% to 70% highway...

I'm pretty impressed thus far. I'm used to changing the oil every 3000'ish miles. I guess the dealership will just charge 2 times as much to make up for the half a many oil changes.

Does everyone here use Synthentic?

TBone2004

Yeah, seems you can argue stuff like that both ways. Oil may be oil, or there may be something to it. As long as you do change it when it is needed its OK. Some argue every 3000, or 5000, 7000 etc. Who knows...kinda like people - one day butter OK, next day - NO!!! eat margarine. Crazy.

TBone2004

You guys bring up an interesting point - are we supposed to go by the MID or by the mileage to do oil changes? Old school was 3 or 5k miles change it or if it sat for several months unused - or low mileage like my wifes car. Factor in driving conditions etc. My head is starting to spin. Someone asked oil type - I use Castrol 5W-20 with my wife's Acura and now mine. Castrol and Quaker State in my other cars - one of which had 265,000 miles before I gave it to a friend who needed it more than me - so I guess I was doing something right - specially since it was an American car - go figure.

Brokedoc

My guess is the MID is somehow based on total RPMs.

vtechbrain

I think your right. Although they say it monitors various parameters, the one they always spell out is RPMs.

rets

Could be. This way doesn't require too much technical setup.

One more info to share... When MID displays "Service Due Now", in my car, driving in New York City, I probably get less than 3500 miles. In my friend's car, driving in CA, he gets 7500 miles...

TLGator

Is there actually a car out there with an oil viscosity sensor?

Aegir

None that I know of. Maybe an old Duesenberg! They had everything

lowlife

I'm about to go in for my second change and I have 12000km about 7500 miles.
the second warning was def. faster than the first.

TLXLR8S

i just spoke to a dealer yesterday and was told that the TL HAS a sensor that measures the thickness and of the oil so you realy know when the oil has to be changed and not by the minles, hours or the RPMs. and BTW i believe him.

antonioe

I don't think there is a viscosity measuring device - you are supposed to change the oil WAY before there is any measurable viscosity change at a given oil temperature (otherwise you may damage the engine). Usually you have to change the oil because it has become acidic due to absorption of water vapor (itself due to the engine start/shutdown thermal cycles) and because it has accumulated deposits and residues from combustion, dirt, etc. I have the oil from my aircraft's engines analyzed at each oil change (50 hours - about 10,000 miles... a bit faster than a car!) mostly to detect metal wear, etc. and it always shows within 10% below OR ABOVE the "rated" viscosity. The lab report explains this variation is "normal" (perhaps this is about as good as they measure it - the whole test costs about $20/engine and measures about 20 different things).

Maybe the TL's system uses simply a transmissometer to measures the approximate opacity of the oil (therefore accounting for "dusty conditions") and combines that with the number of revolutions the engine turned since the last reset (thus accounting for "driving conditions").

Just guesses.

Hybrid

The ones that designed the lubrication system in the now-recalled Acura automatic transmission? The ones that designed the method for holding up the headliner in our TLs? The ones that chose the Bridgestone EL42. My ohly point is that they're not perfect. Oil change intervals are a slightly different matter of course. Another point: there's a whole bunch of marketing involved in setting oil change intervals. The race has been on for years to sell the "best car" based on "lower maintenance needs."

As an example of what happens, I was reading a forum where a potential buyer said he'd never buy a Honda product, and was buying Toyota instead. Why? Because the Honda maintenance recommendation was to change the brake fluid every three years, and Toyota had no recommendation to change it. To that person, that made the Toyota better. Never mind the facts that the change will save money on brake repairs over time. So why does Toyota not recommend these changes? Marketing, not engineering.

By the way, I suspect the algorithm used to calculate oil life isn't that complicated, and it isn't using any special sensors. It may be using something as simple as a calculation based on total miles driven and number of cold starts. That's pretty much all that's needed to figure it out anyway. Apparently, it isn't smart enough to determine elapsed time, which is another factor to be considered.

cutemp

That's another 'advantage' of leasing vs buying ... I am leasing my car :devil: ... I might follow the MID for the first year, after that ... well, maybe changing the oil once a year if I have time ... :thefinger

Aegir

Wow, that's cheap. You could at least run it up to Walmart for the 14.95 special, and dive in the DVD bin while you wait. :toothless

smoore

You might want to think twice about this approach. I had a 00 Avalon and I missed the second oil change. Right after what should have been the 3rd oil change i started to get blue smoke. It turned out that the oil had sludged and I needed a ring an valve job. That ran about $3,500.00 and orginally it came out of my own pocket because I had not adhered to the Toyota maintenance schedule. Toyota had a problem with sludging with the 3 litre 00 engines and eventually I got my money back.

After that I religiously changed my oil on time and the engine sludged again at 77,000 km and 2 weeks before my lease was up. This time I had no problems with Toyota and they ended my lease two weeks early.

The point is that if you don't comply with the maintenance schedule and you have a problem, you don't have a leg to stand on if something serious goes wrong. The cost of an oil change is pretty small in comparison to an engine rebuild. If you are going to keep the car for a few years it is even more important to service it properly.

I intend to have the amount of oil life on the MID noted on the invoice for each oil change just to ensure that there is no dispute about my compliance with the maintenance schedule.

TBone2004

5AT recall? for the '04? Did I miss a thread somewhere??

kosh2258

The service interval indicator isn't a new idea, BMW has used it in their cars since the mid to late 80's. I had an 87 325iS that had one of these.

I don't know for sure, but I would think the MID is looking at outside temperature, engine temperature, engine RPM, average speed, and elapsed time to do the calculation for oil service.

At the rate my percentage is dropping, about 10% a month, I'll be doing the oil change this fall.

If the dealer isn't doing the oil changes, the key is to keep all the service receipts to show when the recommended service was done, mileage, by whom, and what oil and filter was used.

As long as you follow the MID recommendations, do the service when notified, and have proof that the parts and oil used were up to par, I don't really see how a claim for a failure could be refused.

The manual says to follow the MID or change the oil annually, whichever happens first.

I plan on using Mobil 1 0W-20 when I do my first change since it appears my driving style will be giving me extended change intervals.

roadman

The MID is designed for 1 thing, to get you back to Acura for an oil change. If there is a reminder flashing at you then you are more likely to take it in to be checked.

Change your oil as you normally would

TBone2004

But aren't you right there risking warranty issue - by using something other than the recommended 5W-20?

porsche911

Must be all that CA sun & quality of life that get us more milage on our MID than NY.

TLGator

This is a really good thread.

I think I'm inclined to agree with the suggestion to change oil following a normal, reasonable schedule. Not sure I'll heed the MID if it starts demanding oil changes too frequently.

Although I've never been asked for them, a leasing company can request your maintenance records at the end of a lease. If you can't produce them, you can be penalized. The amount of the penalty varies from lease to lease, but if you have a security deposit down, you can certainly lose that. So not changing the oil in a leased car can burn you in the end. Besides, you don't really want to treat such a nice car so badly, do you?

kosh2258

TBone2004,

Nope. A true synthetic oil will always be 0W because of the naturally low cold pour point (something like -51 for Mobil 1) they have. The number that really counts is the 20. The manufacturers have to tweak them to get a higher W weight.

0W is good because it means in very cold weather, like we get in Minnesota, the oil will flow freely at cold start up where the potential for damage exists.

Note that the manual says synthetics are acceptable.

In any event, if the engine did puke and the oil was the determined cause, Mobil would be on the hook for the repairs.

I've used Mobil 1 in Honda engines before and had no problems as have plenty of other folks. So I'm not worried about it.

vtec187

I have to say I dissagree with you. I change my own oil and they can't say if I followed their plan or not. If oil sludges up from missing one oil change you are using some s!@t oil or as you said there are some serious engineering flaws.

Acurich

Another point: there's a whole bunch of marketing involved in setting oil change intervals. The race has been on for years to sell the "best car" based on "lower maintenance needs."

As an example of what happens, I was reading a forum where a potential buyer said he'd never buy a Honda product, and was buying Toyota instead.

When I was new car shopping, I found the Nissan 3 month / 3500 mi oil change interval for the Maxima a turn-off, much more of a dealer profit enhancer than a necessity, given advances in metalurgy & lubricants.

The salesman's retort when I said this would be a major inconvenience: "We have service hours on Saturday mornings". Yeah, sure, just how I want to spend 1/4 of my weekend free time.

ACuraR_RENAMED

The Maintenance Minder system utilizes the following sensors and the PCM (Powertrain Control Module) to process the Oil Life recommendation.
MAP (Manifold Absolute Pressure), determines engine load
ECT (Engine Coolant Temperature), self explanatory...
IAT (Intake Air Temperature) , self explanatory...
CKP (Crankshaft Postion Sensor), engine rpm's
CMP (Camshaft Position Sensor), engine rpm since last service
VSS (Vehicle Speed Sensor), vehicle mileage

My first oil change was performed @ 6700 miles (<15% Oil Life)

JetJock

Originally Posted by cutemp
That's another 'advantage' of leasing vs buying ... I am leasing my car ... I might follow the MID for the first year, after that ... well, maybe changing the oil once a year if I have time ...

Hope I never buy a car this "cheap idiot" owned.

roadman

Hmmm, so you would sacrifice fuel economy, gas that you pay for just to skimp on an oil change. You do realize that dirty, sludgy oild costs you money right ?

Oil change once a year ???? No-one can be that cheap

caball88

yes they can, he justs said that is what he does. its his car let him do what he wants with it. i mean its not his car but the one that he leases. some poor sap is going to buy a certified pre-owned acura and end up with a car that has had 3 oil changes in 3 years.

RM44341

Consumer Reports did an motor oil comparison test a few years ago and the results were eye-opening. They tested various oils at various intervals in NYC cabs. The tests included before and after measurements of engine components as well as visual inspections of torn down engines. The results were that no oil offered any significant benefit over another. More frequent oil changes didn't offer any measurable increase in protection either.

So far I haven't seen anything that refutes this test. If it is really true then frequent oil changes using premium oil is about as wasteful as putting super unleaded into a car designed to run on 87 octane.

TBone2004

Yep. you are right. Read the same issue...earl is earl