When I had my '05 TL, I was down to 15% on the MID for the oil, I called my Acura service shop to make an appt. and was told that if I got it changed with 15% life left, I was just throwing away good oil, he told me that the absolute longest I could wait would be when the MID was 1000 MILES PAST ZERO before I was risking anything happening to the car

 

Sounds like good advice to me.

 

Why do you keep insisting on running your vehicle into the ground? You're recommending Azine members to put over 8K miles on their cars before an oil change! Are you that cheap? Changing the oil is so simple and it hardly takes any time.. When you hit 100k miles lets pull out your rod & pistons and take a look.

 

lol... You, and I don't know what kind of TRUE technical education or experience in oils and mechanics, are telling Azine members to go against highly paid engineers that work for Acura, against the Acura mechanics who deal with these cars everyday and know them inside and out, and against the scientists and engineers who produce the oil products that go in them.

I don't know about you, but I'm going to trust engineers, scientists, and mechanics for technical information and advice, over someone who surfs the internet and adds his old school, ill informed, and stubborn oil change ritual, as advice to other forum members.

Considering nobody on here knows exactly how the MID calculates oil change intervals, I'd say it's safe to say, don't listen to ANYBODY on here. Listen to the advanced programming that made your car a bit more expensive to pay for those highly trained and knowledgeable engineers (not forum supporters) salaries. Don't do what someone else does just because that person "feels" better about it.

And why would I want to take my engine apart to prove something to you? I guarantee the engine will not be the first thing to fail on my car, or most likely yours for that matter, so what difference does it make?

My recommendation to ALL Azine members is to do as listed above. Trust engineers/scientists, over web surfing, ritualistic, "do what feels good" type people, and if they want to call that "running it into the ground", I'll be there at the same time as you, with more money in my pocket.

 

I'm an electrical engineer. I don't know everything and there are a lot of members on here more knowledgeable about vehicle mechanics than me but If there's one thing I know is that it's okay for us to do something wrong because we can fix it. Engineers get things wrong all the time and when we get it right we approve it. Everything that gets through quality and reliability testing is not 100%. If you're willing to put your trust in an engineers hands you must be under the false assumption that they / Acura is going to fix it. You tell them that some service adviser told you to run it 1k miles past 0% then you show them your receipts for oil changes comply to you changing your oil every 8k miles and they'll laugh at you. The owner's manual says do service at 0%. You're recommending to Azine members to do a maintenance schedule that will void their warranties.

You think engineers know it all.. Why do you think there are so many TSB's!!!!!!!!!!!! btw.. csmeance's breakdown the maintminder calculation is just about spot on.

What are you going to save by the year's end. Say 15k miles / year. I change it 3 times you change it twice. $80!.. go buy a civic.

 

I understand what you're trying to get across about engineers getting things wrong, I don't know about "all the time", though, must depend on where you work. I work with the Corps of Engineers, and work with electrical engineers, mechanical engineers, structural engineers, and architects every single day (I'm a CADD tech so I work with each discipline), and they do make mistakes every now and then, however, every project that we work on is different, therefore, everything they do is different, so the chance for mistakes rises.

Acura has been making the TL for quite sometime, and usually only upgrade/modify an existing proven to work system. In other words.. they continue to make it better. I heard somewhere that it takes 4+ years to design a car from beginning to production. That's ALOT of research and testing. It takes us less than 1 year to design a 3 story lodging facility, and less than a year to build it. Go figure that one out.

Oh and BTW.. I'm not recommending to drive 1k past 0%... that was what was called the "absolute longest I could wait". I'm recommending listening and trusting the MID.

 

You are taking this WAY WAY too seriously.

I would be willing to bet you $10000 that changing synthetic oil every 8000-10000 miles will result in no appreciable difference in engine wear after 200,000 miles, as compared to doing it every 3000, under normal use. Oils today are FAR FAR better than they were 40 years ago, when the 3000 mile rule came out.

Changing oil too frequently has its own risks, as well. Compare these scenarios-

1. How many times have you heard someone struggling with an oil pan drain screw that was too tight from the last change, occasionally resulting in permanent thread damage to the pan?
2. How many times have you heard someone getting their engine rebuilt due to loss of compression or bearing slop (usually shows up in a main seal leak that won't stop after its replacement)?

I've heard more instances of the former than the latter. Each oil change is an opportunity for the tech to mess up the plug, the filter, etc.

I'm not an engine professional, either, but I've been a hobbyist for more than 20 years, and have seen my fair share of the insides of engine blocks. 8000 miles on a modern engine between oil changes, particularly with synthetics, is not that long.

If you'd like proof, you can get it with oil life analysis from www.blackstone-labs.com. I occasionally send a drain sample in (haven't for a few years, though) just to make sure everything is ducky. A few years back, I sent in a sample, Mobil1 5W-30, out of my '02 TL-S, after 8500 miles in FL (about 10 months of use). His comment- "oil is very clean, typical of Honda/Acura. TBN and deposits show 30-40% life remaining in oil."

Your mind won't be changed of course, but let's not pretend that irreversible damage is being caused by using the MID to change your oil.

 

Everyone knows these engines are designed to have very extended lifetimes and the Maintminder can be conservative in the err of caution but I suggest to keep the car as close to spec and efficient by not skimping on simple maintenance. How many of you keep the car under 2k rpms? How many of you are mostly Highway? If you drive 8k miles on the highway with syn or syn blend.. you're not headed towards disaster, but if you do mixed driving at 8k miles or high revs for 8k miles whether it be "once in a while" the little money you save now will turn into big money down the road in terms of repair / rebuild costs. Oil change intervals are not a linear scale, it depends on your driving habits and oil used.

I try to take it easy on my TL b/c I plan on owning it for quite some time, atleast another 5-7 years (~80k - 120k miles on top of 89k miles on my odo). I trust the MainMinder but don't be fooled. Sensors fail.. even the owner's manual tells you not to rely solely on the MainMinder.. and for your bet.. define explicitly "appreciable difference" and we'll chat.

btw.. devildogge you said "1000 miles past zero - Sounds good to me." I just don't get the attitude of skimping on something so simple.. the old addage of "better safe than sorry" is always true.

 

Nahh.. it was bolded from the original post. I just quoted the whole thing.

 

No it's not... I've see that kind of thinking get soldiers killed.

Kinda like "there's no replacement for displacement." That's just some line that some backwoods hillbilly made up, and it caught on with all the muscle car owners... It gets me so fired up when I hear that... of course there's a replacement to displacement... it's called weight!! That's why they'll measure how much power for pound in racing vehicles.

Catch phrases and slogans, although sound neat, are ill though out, but widely accepted.

 

The MID accounts for that.

I keep records, so I know about when I need to change anyway.

A large enough difference that fuel economy is adversely affected, engine compression is lost (due to oil overuse), or significant repair is needed (bearing rework, and/or cylinder hone/bore. In other words, any significant corrective maintenance at all.

If my bearings end up with .0002" more clearance on them than yours after 200k miles, or I can't see the crosshatch on my bores, but both still show 170psi cranking pressure, what difference does it make? Your wallet will be roughly $900 lighter (assume $35 oil change at 2x the rate I'm doing), and you'll have put an extra 125quarts of dirty oil (5quarts x 25 changes) into the waste stream.

 

Ooooh, I could have fun with this one, too. You really need to take a Z06 for a drive, though.

Here's how I put it to my hp/liter friends- "7.0liters, 505hp, 420lbs of engine that takes up less space than a boosted 6, when you consider the turbo packaging. You sure you want to argue that point?"

Just playin', of course.

 

I have driven a Z06... and they're jaw dropping... Imagine if that much power was in a full size truck... wouldn't be too nice, although probably better than any other stock truck. Imagine that engine on a 1000 lbs cage with tires... insane. It's all about weight and power... not just power as the saying goes.

 

You mean ~160 psi? btw.. soldiers killed.. are you serious, what kind of example is that.. Give one example and I bet there are a hundred others to the opposite.. There's always a delta and nothing is absolute. I'm officially off this ship.

 

You just rebutted the silly saying you quoted earlier... that's what I was going for. It's NOT always true.

 

Hi Guys,

Recently I took my car to TL-S for oil change at Horizon in Azusa, CA.

I brought my own K&N Oil Filter (US$ 12), Castrol Full Synthetic Oil (US$23).

And they just charge me everything for less than US$20.

What surprised me was the amount of power now the car has. You can't even hit the gas to the end, cuz, it's too much.

They've told me that any Acura dealership normally use a mix oil (Normal + Synthetic). And that'll make a huge difference.

Now, my TL-S just went down to 90% after over 700 miles.