Oil level question
Team Owner
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 20,172
Likes: 1,818
From: Bakersfield
Well I might stir something up here with what I am about to post but here it goes. I have been drag racing or street rodding since 1985. I have been around alot of professionals and full time racers and people that work in the industry. Memphis has alot of great companies for hot rods from chasis, cams, heads and so on. We have always used 3 to 3.5 quarts of oil for our 350's, 383's, 454's and such. Seen cars blow motors but usually from other failures or tuned wrong. I know most use crank scrapers and windage trays high volume pumps and special plumbing under intake to carry oil where it needs it up front from the accelaration. So running .5 quart low I doubt seriuosly do any damage, a quart low maybe alright. This is one thing we have done without second thought. I know on our 2001 Ford F-350 Superduty crewcab duallie powered by a 7.3 turbo diesel(makes 305 hp at rear wheels) holds 14 quarts of oil. We were traveling to job when the turbo sprung a bad oil leak, started sometime after we got on the road and we were about 4 hours in on our trip when the motor just quit. Scary for a few minutes thinking of motor just fried. We noticed smoke coming out back pretty good about 10 miles back just had nowhere to stop cause in back woods of alabama. Anyway we found the leak at the pedalstal and made a jerry rig fix to get us to our destination. We checked oil level and not touching dipstick. We added about 5 quarts and the motor started had a slow leak still. The oil level sensor had kicked in to save the motor. So lets say you can run 3 quarts low and the sensor will not kick in. Anybody willing to teach me otherwise, I am more than willing to listen and learn. These are just my expierances and nothing scientific. Sorry for long post. Ready to listen.
For road racing or hard street driving I like to have every ounce of oil possible. It keeps the heat down. For instance on the GN even with a large oil cooler it makes such a large amount of heat from a small engine that the cooler won't begin to keep up if I run it hard for more than a 1/4 mile pass. What we did on my dad's GN was add an 11 quart pan and this really helped to knock the initial heat spike down.
In the TL, .5 quarts low won't begin to hurt anything. You're still within the safety zone. I doubt 1 quart would hurt it. I run mine .5 quarts high but I did so after checking closely for aeration of the oil for the first few days. My car sees lots of freeway miles so whatever I can do to make the oil last longer and stay cooler I do.I know of some people that purposely run a quart low in the winter for quicker warm up of the oil but that really takes away your safety margin.
Those 3 quarts are still a relatively low percent of the total 14 quarts of that PS. Those things have a huge safety margin so they can be run flat out towing all day. I wish more gas engines were overbuilt like the diesels.
Instructor
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 224
Likes: 38
From: Memphis, TN
I have always been told that running more than recommened will do more harm than running a little low. More oil would deifinitely cause more resistance on the crank and other rotating parts. I will look into this some more. Thanks for the info though I Hate Cars, looks we have more in common. I used to own a GN, did not have alot of time to upgrade cause it was stolen after 8 months. Did a couple things to turbo, trans and TC, and rearend diff and gears. That is by far the best car I have ever owned.
Team Owner
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 20,172
Likes: 1,818
From: Bakersfield
I have always been told that running more than recommened will do more harm than running a little low. More oil would deifinitely cause more resistance on the crank and other rotating parts. I will look into this some more. Thanks for the info though I Hate Cars, looks we have more in common. I used to own a GN, did not have alot of time to upgrade cause it was stolen after 8 months. Did a couple things to turbo, trans and TC, and rearend diff and gears. That is by far the best car I have ever owned.
You're right about being overfilled being worse but only if it's so overfilled it causes aeration.
Too full and the crank whips it into a froth and oil pressure drops and the oil that does make it to the bearings and such is not very good at lubricating. However most manufacturers have a lot of headroom built in to the recommended oil level. They have to compensate for cornering, braking, hills, etc so you can be pretty far off either way. IMO, overfilling is better to a point but once you cross the line into too full it can cause damage quickly.
I actually did a test when I was rebuilding the GN engine. As you know these only have a baffle at the rear of the pan and hold 5 quarts. I filled the pan with water while it was sitting in the garage and it held 8 or more quarts before it was near the top. The GN uses a deep skirt block so the oil pan rails are below the crank counterweights. This car could likely take twice the recommended fill before the oil came into contact with the counterweights (with the car not braking or accelerating). I'm not saying every car is the same, just that there is a good safety margin built in to most of them.
This is just my opinion from what I've witnessed but the damage from overfilling aeration is usually worse because in most cases it's prolonged where underfilling and uncovering the pickup momentarily causes a short loss of pressure that usually recovers quickly.
Team Owner
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 20,172
Likes: 1,818
From: Bakersfield
One solution would be to run an oil with a high HTHS for it's viscosity. Redline 5w-20 has an HTHS as high and higher than many 30wts so you could run it year round and at the track. You get the flow of a 20wt and the protection of a 30wt but you can't go wrong with a quality 30wt either.
Instructor
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 171
Likes: 1
From: North Potomac MD
You may want to check out the simple stuff first before you condemn the engine. If you've installed a CAI and plugged the fresh air opening it will burn oil.
Keep in mind oil burning will kill the catalytic convertors and 02 sensors.
If it's truly burning oil, try a straight 30wt with a super low NOACK like Redline. This should significantly reduce the burning if it's getting past the rings. Redline 5w-30 fits the bill perfectly.
Keep in mind oil burning will kill the catalytic convertors and 02 sensors.
If it's truly burning oil, try a straight 30wt with a super low NOACK like Redline. This should significantly reduce the burning if it's getting past the rings. Redline 5w-30 fits the bill perfectly.
Team Owner
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 20,172
Likes: 1,818
From: Bakersfield
Removing the silencer won't make a difference but if you've plugged off the metal pipe that goes into the rubber intake hose it will pressurize the crankcase and cause oil burning.
Instructor
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 171
Likes: 1
From: North Potomac MD
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 146
Likes: 0
From: Denver CO
Ok guys. I changed my oil now. I got the car on the lift and checked out the underneath. It turned out that the crush washer that was provided with the plug was not the metal one, but a rubbery plastic material. It has made cracks and was leaking over time. I also noticed the area where the filter goes on (not where it screws on, but where it attaches to the block) has little oil leak there. So in 6 months and about 5K miles, i lost about a quart and a half. Not a big deal considering the mileage on the car and how much it driven.
Now the question is where do i find a pvc valve. "I think i want to check it out. Thanks.
Now the question is where do i find a pvc valve. "I think i want to check it out. Thanks.
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