Repecat

In anticipation of changing my oil/filter within the next month, I went to my local Honda dealer (no Acura dealer within 50 miles) to get a filter. The parts mgr showed me two filters that he said would fit; one tiny one and one normal sized. I picked the normal sized one thinking that it had more filter media area. The part number is 15400-PCX-004 made by Toyo Roki, Ltd in Japan. Is this the correct filter for my 04 TL?

alvonchui

This is the S2K oil filter. Many people have recommended using this one as it is bigger and better constructed than the other one 15400-PLM-A01/A02 You have to draw your own conclusion.

Ron A

No. The TL filter is the tiny one, P/N 15400-PLM-A02.

I think RoadRage made a comment about why the TL filter is tiny, and why tiny is better, but I don't have the ambition to look for it now.

My personal opinion is that Acura/Honda had a reason for making the filter the size it is, and giving it a unique part number, so I am going to use what they specify. Sometimes filters are revised due to space limitations or other criteria, but there is ample room there for the larger filter, so there must be some other good reason for putting that tiny filter in there.

Lore

I think the reason RR said a smaller filter was better is because it means there's less lag time between when you start the engine and when you get oil to where it's needed. Or did someone else say that?

In any case, the 15400-PLM-A02 is a Fram manufactured unit. 15400-PLM-A01 is a Filtech manufactured unit. Both are still stocked by dealers, and word has it that the Filtech is a better unit.

Hawhyen51

Ron, is this the post you were referring to? Oversize Oil Filters

Ron A

Thanks for the help, but I don't think so, because he refers to the TL filter as "dinky". The post I was thinking of said the small size was better for the TL, but I can't remember the reason or the poster. Understandable, considering the number of postings and threads about oil, viscosity, and filter preferences.

Cloudsplitter

I would recommend staying with the TL oil filter. I've used Honda filters for years. They are solid and have the proper pressure relief valving.

smartin9949

Wix (dana) filters are better. above the Wix i would choose Mobil-1

deandorsey

really? i have heard that wix are worse than fram...

RR has said that the most important thing about an oil filter has to do with the filter capacity/ flow rate (or something to that effect) not the size... if it cannot flow the right amount of oil than it will either get bypassed and not filtered at all or it could damage the internals of the filter mediA

Lore

I would love to see a transparent engine on display at something like the Tech Museum in San Jose just so I can see how engine oil lubricates the engine when it's running... how cool would that be?

AcidHorse

I used a Bosch filter on my recent oil change and it is a little bit bigger than the stock TL filter. I compared both the positions where the rubber gasket is and both match up, except the Bosch one has larger diameter.

It fits and no leaks so far.

alvonchui

If you decided to go with the smaller Honda filter, remember to use the 15400-PLM-A01 made by Filtech, do not get the 15400-PLM-A02 (made by FRAM). The dealer gave me the A02 initially, but changed it the A01 when I asked.

Boartman

Anyone using an K & N oil filter?

I think it's a good value for $9.95.I am happy with it..

Boartman

avs007

That actually already exists. I can't remember where I saw it though. I think it was at the Deutche Museum, in Munich.

nick04tl

either filter will work for you. the smaller one is the one that comes from the factory on the tl.

kosh2258

Wix filters, also sold by NAPA under their brand, have gotten good ratings and are well constructed. Very definitely better than standard Frams.

RR has also given positive comment on the PureOne filters from Purolator.

Here's some crossover number I've collected for a few different brands that are available to me where I live. These are all the size of the Honda filter installed at the factory. This is not a complete list of good alternatives by any means.

Honda 15400-PLM-A02
NAPA Gold FIL1356 (NAPA has changed their numbering scheme so this may be different now)
Purolator PureONE PL14610
Mobil Mobil1 M1-110

The basic points to consider are:
Does it have a bypass valve.
Does it have a silicone rubber anti-drain back valve
The number of pleats and or type of filtration material used.
Metal end caps on the filter media are usually better than treated cardboard.
A heavier housing is usually a sign of better quality.

avs007

Actually, your fitment for the Mobile-1 is wrong. The Mobile-1 M1-110 is not the correct filter. The correct filter is the M1-104. That's the one I've been using. I double checked the application guide at AutoZone online, and that indeed is the replacement for the stock part.

kosh2258

They changed the listing at AutoZone because it was referencing the M-110 for both the 3.2 TL and 3.0 Accord. The M-110 is the same size as the factory filter and it does fit. I bought that filter at AutoZone and it's currently on my car. I have no idea why they changed, but the M-104 is the larger size like the older style Honda filter that was in use.

I'm not going to lose any sleep over it.

kosh2258

I bought the M1-110 because the application catalog in the Auto Zone store showed the M1-110 as the correct Mobil 1 filter for the TL, not based on the website although last summer it did also list the M1-110.

Just to satisfy the questions this will obviously raise, I've e-mailed Mobil asking for information about which filter they're recommending. When I get a reply from them, I'll post it here.

Purolator still lists the PL14610 as the recommended filter for the TL and the PL14610 crosses over to a M1-110 in the application guides so take that for what it's worth.

avs007

That's strange, because I bought the M1-104, because that's what it said in the Catalog at the store. I bought 5 of them. If the 104 and the 110 end up being interchangeable, I may just only buy 104, because my G35 uses the M1-110, and would be cool if I could just buy a single size filter....

WOOCHOW

I have a couple of A02's. They are labeled made in Canada , Honeywell. Are these the Frams?

DarkWraith33

Does this list sound correct to you guys regarding the OIL FILTERS for 2004/2005 TL's??? Meaning that ALL OF THESE will fit in the car... (We can argue quality until we're blue in the tailpipe)

15400-PLM-A01 (Stock Filter - Filtech made)
15400-PLM-A02 (Stock Filter - Fram made)
15400-PCX-004 (Someone had this listed as OK)
Mobil 1 #M1-104 (Oversized from stock)
Mobil 1 #M1-110 (Same size as stock)
Purolator PureONE PL14610

Anything look WRONG? Am I missing a few possibly? This list, when complete, should answer a ton of questions for people getting ready to do oil changes. At some point we should do a poll and find out what the most popular one is...

THANKS!

Repecat

Some additional ones I have learned of in the past couple of days:
Hastings LF-386
Wix 51334
Fram (God forbid) 6607 & 7317

I'm sure there are a few more.

DarkWraith33

So the going list so far:

15400-PLM-A01 (Stock Filter - Filtech made)
15400-PLM-A02 (Stock Filter - Fram made)
15400-PCX-004 (Someone had this listed as OK)
Mobil 1 #M1-104 (Oversized from stock)
Mobil 1 #M1-110 (Same size as stock)
Purolator PureONE PL14610 (Just checked PepBoys: $5.99)
Hastings LF-386
Wix 51334
Fram 6607
Fram 7317

Also, I THINK there is a crush washer that is needed as well... Anybody have a part number or any other info on that???

Repecat

Once we have identified enough filters for a comprehensive list, it might be useful to other TL owners to have the list available in the 3G garage. Moderators???

Ron A

Or we can get RoadRage to verify the findings, and then add it to his Journals.

Repecat

Excellent proposal! The red "X" is in reality a thumbs up.

Road Rage

OK, Oil Filter 101. There are many factors that affect oil filter selection. Here are some common misconceptions:

1) Tiny TL filter allows faster oil pressur and flow - not true and I never said that.
2) Oversize filters are good because they add oil capacity and aide cooling. Well, they add a fraction, but they can actually be deleterious.

The short version, rather than my sometimes less popular detailed postings, is that an oil filter also regulates oil pressure at various points in the RPM range. It is partially controlled by the bypass valve PSI rating and design.

Here is an excellent link that refers to the Yamaha engine once used on the Taurus SHO - a very exotic engine with much technology Honda uses.

Lots of good info here - it is RR approved for consumption:

http://www.shoclub.com/lubrication-o...n-oilpart3.htm

Let's move on - surely there must be new questions needing answering? I am about ready to go to the Butt Print posts again for a new wrinkle (get it?).

dashotgun

Hey road this was quoted from an earlier post you made and is germane to this discussion I like the idea of using the S2000 filter. did you ever determine if it could be used in the TL?

Repecat

If you refer back to my post #1 in this thread, you will see that the S2K filter is precisely the one that the dealer gave to me for my TL. I haven't used it yet, but it should fit.

avs007

Really? I kind of doubt it. I doubt a manufacturer would place a dependency of such an important function on a wear item that they have no control over, as you can install a different oil filter, and still be good as far as warranty is concerned because of a thing called the Magnasson Moss Warranty Act. With that being said, go to a Jiffy Lube type place, (which many people go to, and is allowed according to the owners manual), and they only have a few diffrent oil filters.

Anyways I looked online, and found that oil pressure is regulated by an oil pressure regulator. I even talked to a friend that owns his own shop. Most all of them never heard of the bypass valve serving as a pressure regulator. How can it? It only diverts oil to not go through the filter media. How can it control pressure? If too much pressure goes to the can, how is it going to be regulated?

An actual Oil Pressure Regulator is basically a spring loaded ball at the pump. So I looked in my Acura Service Manual, and sure enough, there is a spring loaded pressure relief valve at the oil pump. And if you look in the troubleshooting oil pressure section, no where does it say to even look at the oil filter...

Road Rage

http://www.shoclub.com/lubrication-o...n-oilpart1.htm

You didn't do your homework. I know all about external oil pressure regulation - but consider that this is a closed-loop SYSTEM, and various components affect operating parameters. Read what the SHO guy measured.
See where the pressure dropped all of a sudden on the abover post - this would not at all be related to the oil pressure reulator, but to a separate mechanical entity. Since the relief valve in the filter does most assuredly regulate flow, using a filer designed for a different application is problematic - I do not know if the PCX filter is right, nor does the dealer. Just because a filter "fits", does not guarantee its fitness for an application.

Someone PM'ed me last night, and I asked him to do some actual legwork, and find out the PSI rating of the TL and S2000 filters - then we can have a good mental sparring. Until then, I do not recommend the PCX fiolter except for the S2000, nor does Honda, according to the engineer i contacted at Honda Eng'g in Cali this afternoon. Consider that the RPM range of the PCX is 8200-9000 depending on whether it is an F22C or F20C.

Let's keep level heads and do the work before we jump into the fire. OK?

RR.

Road Rage

I tried to edit my last post to clarify, but had timed out. So here goes:

The salient point here is that if the bypass valve in the oil filter is not properly indexed to the engine it is used it, it could open prematurely, allowing unfiltered oil to flow, or fail to open when needed, leading to a burst filler, a damaged filter medium,or driving external oil leaks, Or all at once in a Big Bang event.

The oil pump pressure regulating valve, usually built into the oil pump, helps control the operating pressure of the lubrication system. The regulating valve is set by the manufacturer to maintain the correct pressure. The valve utilized a ball (or plunger) and spring mechanism. When the operating pressure is below the preset PSI level, the spring holds the ball in the closed position so that oil flows to the bearings under pressure. When the desired amount of pressure is reached, the valve opens enough to maintain this pressure. Once the valve is open, the pressure remains fairly constant, with only small changes as the engine speed varies. If the oil pressure regulating valve becomes stuck in the closed position or slow to move to the open position after the engine has started, the pressure in the system will exceed the regulating valve setting. This may cause an over-pressurized oil filter. If a deformed oil filter is observed, the oil pressure regulating valve must be serviced immediately.

Relief (By-Pass) Valve. In a full flow system, all the oil passes through the filter to reach the engine. If the filter clogs, an alternative route to the engine must be provided for the oil, or the bearings and other internal parts may fail, due to oil starvation. A relief, or by-pass, valve is used to allow unfiltered oil to lubricate the engine. Unfiltered oil is far better than no oil at all. This relief (by-pass) valve is built into the engine block in some cars. Otherwise, the relief (by-pass) valve is a component of the oil filter itself. Under normal conditions, the valve remains closed. When there is sufficient contaminant in the oil filter to reach a preset level of pressure differential to oil flow (around 10-12 PSI in most passenger cars), pressure differential on the relief (by-pass) valve caused it to open. This condition can occur when the oil filter has become clogged or when the weather is cold and the oil is thick and flows slowly.

Anti-Drainback Valve. Some oil filter mountings may allow oil to drain out of the filter through the oil pump when the engine is stopped. When the engine is next started, oil must refill the filter before full oil pressure reaches the engine. The anti-drainback valve, included in the filter when required, prevents oil from draining out of the filter. This anti-drainback valve is actually a rubber flap that covers the inside of the inlet holes of the filter. When the oil pump starts pumping oil, the pressure will unseat the flap. The purpose of this valve is to keep the oil filter filled at all times, so when the engine is started there will be an almost instantaneous supply of oil to the engine.

avs007

I'm just saying I don't understand how the filter can regulate pressure. All it can do is either send the oil through the filter media, or bypass the filter media. How can it control pressure? The bypass valve does not limit flow. It just bypasses the filter media. Sure it can open up sooner than another filter, but that is not regulating pressure. That's like saying I have a temperature regulator on my wine cellar, but all it does is open the windows when it gets above a certain temperature. That is not regulating.

You would think if the filter was designed to regulate flow, the ACURA SERVICE MANUAL would at least mention that when troubleshooting oil pressure irregularites across the rev range. But it does not. It only talks about the oil pump, and the pressure relief valve in the oil pump.

avs007

In fact if you look at part 2 of the article you linked, it says what the bypass valve is for, and when it opens. It says it opens if the oil is too cold/thick, or if the filter is clogged. It doesn't say it opens to regulate pressure. It says some filters may go into full bypass mode becuase they traded off filtering for flow. It says other filters do the opposite. Flow more, but filter less. This makes more sense... If a filter can't flow that much oil while filtering, it will go into bypass mode. That being said that implies that two filters should flow at relatively the same rate (on average over the entire pressure range), as it's bypass valve is compensating for its filter media's ability to flow or not flow. If you want a filter's flow rate, those are published on-line.

WOOCHOW

NAPA sells three different filters for the TL, all made by WIX. Prices are $2.59, $3.29 and $6.79 respectively. The $3.29 model has a "NASCAR" logo on it so it must be good!

DarkWraith33

Gonna let this one go I assume?! I'll be getting the items I need for my oil change soon. Gonna go with Mobil 1 10w30 along with the M1-110 or Purolator filter. I know Pep Boys has the Purolator one. (I am not sure if it is bigger or the same size as the stock filter. Anyone know?)

Mods? This seems to be the useable oil filter list for the 3G TL... Or at least from the info I can muster from here and there. Throw it in the garage for reference???

avs007

I got the aluminum crush washer from Baxter auto parts for like 2 bucks for a pack of 6 or so. It was the only aluminum crush washer they carried, and it fit like a glove. All the other oil plug washers were rubber.

Dafried

OK - I just bought the A02 filter from the dealer. When I asked about the difference, he said that 6 months out of the year, he'll have the A01's and the other 6 he has the A02's on the shelf.

This is my first oil change. I have 5200 miles and MID says 30% oil life left. I am planning on using Mobil1 10-30.

I also bought a Fram XG3593A filter at Checker Auto.

I'm "decisionally-paralyzed" by all the info on this site regarding oil and filters. One minute I read the RR says a larger filter isn't necessarily better. Somone else says don't let the dealer sell you the A02 (Honeywell/Fram) filter.

I am typically conservative about change intervals. Another $100 a year for "better" oil or a more often than necessary oil change isn't material to me.

However, which one of these filters should I use? Dealers cost $5.19 and Fram cost $9. I could care less about $4 if there is any difference.

Thanks in advance,

David

Repecat

It seems to me that there is enough negative information about Frams in this forum to scare even Mr. Fram from getting Fram filters.