piggydog

Was about to change my oil and didn't have the right size.

BASISON

You are right...just like all other Honda and Acuras, the oil drain plug is 17mm. In fact, I'm pretty sure all the new Hondas and Acuras use the same oil filter as well. I have an '05TL, my wife has an '09 Pilot, and my Mom has a '04 TSX and they all use the same Mobil1 M1-110 filter.

subinf

Yes. Not all other cars, but most other Honda/Acura

SCS15

iTrader: (3)

Yea it takes 17. I made the mistake of having the dealer change my oil last time and HOLY SH*T did they tighten down my plug. Took me 3 hrs to take off a stripped drain plug and ruin my socket.

piggydog

pick one up. I actually have a few but of course I suspect the sock and tool monster are one in the same. I seems like I don't even need to jack it up. All I need to do is take off the right front tire and bam 10 min oil change.

01tl4tl

make sure its on the correct amount of tight- a torque wrench is a good investment in protecting the oil pan and plug- and the wheel torque affects the rotors and hub bearings if not correct- plus weakens the lugs from overtightening

If your drain plug was on reallllly tight- like 50 foot lbs as a quikie shop or even dealer may do,,REPLACE the drain plug and sealing washer
2 bucks at parts store
Once overtightened the drain plug threads are weakened and stretched, not a good place to have that going on

Correct drain plug torque for engine oil and A/T drain plug is 29 foot lbs
thats a pretty solid tug on a medium 12" length wrench with the car in the air
or a pull and a few good solid taps with hammer for shorter wrench

On the ground its easy to only get 15 ft lbs and think its tight- until you check it and whoa oooops!
29 thats the only number you want for that drain plug

My 86 honda bike uses the same drain plug and oil filter as my gen2 TL
,,,but it doesnt run on car oil, needs special $6 a qt v-twin oil - 4 qts- and gets changed every 2000-3000 miles (last time added seafoam before change- idle increased 300 rpm!)

subinf

^ - Yep.

Honda/Acura drain pans strip out often because people tighten the shit out of them - doesn't matter whether you to go the dealership, independent shop, quick lube, etc. Tendency is to crank down on them when it really doesn't need much to sit (and stay) tight.

I've fixed/replaced so many damn honda oil pans I lost count

SouthernBoy

Now ya' see people. This is just one more example why you may NOT want to take your car to a dealer for any reason. I mean, something as simple as an oil change and they can't even use a torque wrench - at a dealer's service department???

01tl4tl

the problem with dealer or quickie place is the low paid staff does oil changes,
and no one ever showed them what a torque wrench is...
they just put it on tight enough to be sure it wont fall out-
and be their fault for new engine to you~

Even tire shops dont understand the tools they use- and believe torque sticks actually set the torque correctly!! not!!!!

LoveMyTL-S

If you don't want to keep removing and installing your drain plug, you can install one this these:

https://acurazine.com/forums/3g-tl-2004-2008-93/ez-drain-704203/

It drains a bit slow but works great!

1fsthatch

then how do u tKE OFF THE TIRE LOL IF U DONT JACK IT UP

piggydog

haha sorry I meant just using the spare tire jack instead of the jacking up the front end.

Xpditor

You don't need to take the tire off. Just turn the wheel all the way to the right and you have easy access to the filter.

My flat style oil drain pan fits under the drain without lifting the car.

denny crane

So what size the crush washer for the oil plug???

nfnsquared

washer is 14mm:



#23

denny crane

thanx. my question was premature because I googled the answer.

AMUA6

iTrader: (7)

It is wise to pick a few of these crush washers up and change them every 2 or 3 oil changes.

nfnsquared

Yeah, good point! I picked up 10 from the Honda dealer last year for around $3 and put them in a zip lock "snack bag" (can also use a twist tie instead). Stuffed it in my glove box. Good for 5 years of oil changes....

poormans_tl69

honda and acuras yes

Xpditor

It is even wiser to change the crush washer EVERY oil change as is stated in the owners manual and as they were designed to deform on tightening.

NAiL05

I see a lot of dealership talk...99 percent of the time you just snug it on without torquing it. I have yet to see people do that. You dont have to he man the bolt to make it work. I always replace the washer and snug up the bolt...Not all dealerships are created equal I have had no issues doing other peoples cars like that. Tq wrench is overkill imo unless your taking your time on your own project.

fsttyms1

<----- Had original crush washer on motor when he pulled it out at 220k never lost a drop

Xpditor

My father ice-fished on Lake Ontario without his life preserver for 50 years and never fell through.

I, on the other hand, wear mine in the bathtub!

I'm just sayin': The fact that others get lucky doesn't stop me from being super-cautious. For a few cents, I'd rather be safe than sorry. Or, as the old saying goes: "An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure."

Xpditor

Oh, boy. Something tells me the Gates of Hell are about to open.

I gather you work at a dealership? "Tq wrench is overkill unless your (sic) taking your time on your own project?"

IOW, if it's my own car (project), a torque wrench is not overkill. But if I'm charging someone $100/hour, I can take short-cuts and the shop manual is optional. Hmmm. I think this confirms what I always suspected.... human nature being what it is.

You might add that "If I strip the threads, no one is going to know until the next oil change and even then, whoever does it will simply reinstall the stripped drain bolt and snug it up."

I'm thinking that a stripped thread on the oil pan requires a new oil pan, right? And a new oil pan requires removing the engine, right? Do you see where I'm going with this? It takes 10-15 seconds to use the torque wrench but at least a day to change the oil pan.

NAiL05

People have there own methods. Most people will not use a tq wrench unless it's something that is important or a critical item. Most users with common sense will tell you when to stop tightening. (If the bolt stops that's usually a sign to stop not he man it). And yes I do work at a dealership...You use the tq wrench on specific stuff when you do tear downs. Rarely have I seen anyone use a tq wrench for a simple oil change anywhere unless it is on there own or friends stuff. I only do it by request other than that you should be able to do it by feel and yes I change out crush washers everytime I do them.

All of what you said is pretty much assumption not the truth. So you think I don't use a shop manual and how would you know that? Just because I said oh I don't use a tq wrench on a little bolt that takes like 10ft lbs? That is a lovely assumption to make. That's like saying I'm just gonna impact all these bolts on that hold in a crank and pray for the best. Personally that is why dealerships get a bad rep...I will admit there are dumbasses that work at other dealerships that screw it up for everyone but not all dealerships are created equal. I wont even talk about quick lube places. We have already had to fix fuck ups by them also.

You can think what you think. Either way people have different methods/common sense that work. I'm not condoning the use for one I just see it as an extra step that isn't needed if you know what you are doing (this doesn't count teardowns and crap just normal things such as intake installs, oil changes, etc). It's a tool that is there for you if you are unsure about something.

Xpditor

I do my own maintenance usually. But, if I must go to the dealer, I request they use a torque wrench on my wheel lug nuts! That must really sound like overkill to you.

I'm saying that you obviously don't follow the instructions in the shop manual for oil changes. Otherwise, you would know that the oil drain bolt requires 29 ft pounds of torque to properly seat the crush washer and not strip the bolt. This is not an assumption. You just told us (twice) that you don't follow that procedure. I don't think you are alone. On the contrary. You said you have never seen anyone at the dealership do that. I believe you.

In your trade, people get used to taking short cuts. Why? Firstly, because it's not their own car and they don't care as much..... as you also confirm in your post. Secondly, the manual you probably consult more often is the Flat Rate Manual. This manual gives the amount of time it should take to do a procedure according to the Shop Manual. Most mechanics at dealerships are paid by the time in the Flat Rate Manual, even if they can do it quicker by taking short cuts "that don't matter." IOW, if you take shortcuts all day, you can rack up maybe 10 or 12 hours of pay but only actually be there for 8. You can also rack up more time by working on two cars at once. While you're waiting for one to drain, you can be working on another... and so forth.

I agree with you that "everybody does it" but that does not make it right or inspire confidence in the dealer's service department or the dealership as a whole.

When I took my car to the dealer to drain the coolant from the block as I could not get at it without a lift, their best mechanics didn't know what I was talking about. I had to show them where the block drain was. They had never done it, they told me. They said they just drain the radiator and then refill when a customer wants a coolant change. That only gets half of the coolant but it's a lot quicker! Meanwhile, the customer goes away fat, dumb and happy assuming the dealer did it properly according to the manual.

I could go on and on. And my dealer is the largest Acura dealer in the world with a fine reputation. In general, I like them. But I have to watch them every minute.

That's why I feel the dealerships get a bad rep. The old fashioned way: They earn it.

I'm curious.... you say that intake installs are a normal thing? Are you speaking of the intake manifold or the air cleaner.

Anyway, we're starting to get off topic and this subject needs its own thread. So, to bring it back around... yes the oil drain plug is 17MM and it calls for 29 ft lbs of torque and a new crush washer which is soft aluminum and deforms to fill any gaps to make a tight seal.

NAiL05

AND AGAIN you are ASSUMING again... First of all I do not consult the flat rate manual unless needed...Second of all our dealership requires procedure to follow so we have to show what we did so the manual and printouts are required regardless of the job.

Good so I said 10 ft lbs I just pulled a random number out just to say it does not require much to tighten. Thanks for correcting it though.

People not caring about your car? Try taking time out to do every single car when you have 150-180 appointments every day during the week (excluding weekends). Everyone wants there car 5-10 min after they bring it in. Technicians usually try to keep up and take care of the vehicles but when you have a flow coming in the shop its hard to take your time on anything. You do your job and you make sure you do your job right.

Again you assume at we just want to rob people? That might be true in some dealerships but again assumption. Our dealership at least if you fuck up a customers car you get the same job back with no pay. So 99 percent of the time the job is always done right the first time. We have had people COMPLAIN about there inspection stickers being slightly crooked and had to fix stuff like that. I can talk about the consumer end also but I am not going too because they have there reasons and they are the paying patrons.

So the old fashioned way lets get to this...This is getting harder for me to understand why people keep on thinking about the old way. Technology is pretty much fucking over the "old way" everyone thinks about. My friends dad is the same way when I was doing his sons timing belt in his driveway. I had to explain to him and he started to understand. Its pretty much hard to cut corners like the "old way" on obd2 (Soon obd3 will follow), CAN BUS communication and so on (general examples). Nowadays you have to follow procedure instead of your older thoughts of "skipping steps". You skip a step you misdiagnose a car easy as that. On some cars you might be able to get away with this if you have been working on a single car all your life but for the most part that's not.

I don't use a tq wrench on my lug nuts? Again assumption. We have torque sticks to a preset torque that we use on am impact gun. We also use a tq wrench to double check (which is usually not needed but it gives us peace of mind) so again there you go ASSUMING again.


I was talking about basic intake box installs just putting it in not manifold we tq those to spec (Most of them are plastic nowadays so its required)...Just a normal intake box for the intake...I pulled it as an example to show "small stuff" to change that takes a few seconds doesn't require a tq wrench.

But as I have said all your stuff is assumption and not how my colleagues or I work. Again good for them you have the largest Acura dealership whatever in the world...Anyone can be the "best" but that doesn't mean their work ethic is the same.

Drain and refills are uncommon (depending on manufacturer). If you really want to drain the whole block there are ways but some vehicles people get lazy which I have seen at the previous private shops I have been too. The vehicles I work on have a rear drain if not something similar so we have no issue with that at all. Again most people will take the shortcut since you are not going to get every drop out on most cars unless you just let it sit there and drain...No one is going to sit there to wait for everything to come out. Again there are people waiting so time is a big issue. Plus some hours just pay for a drain and refill only not to drain your whole block unless stated. By the time we usually get our coolant change we offer to do the timing belt at the same time since the water pump comes off also and gets most of the coolant out anyway.

Again sorry to go OT.

zeta

iTrader: (1)

Boy, do I have a story that confirms your angle on '...human nature being what it is.'

In a nut shell, I just performed the timing belt repalcement on my CLS-6. The helms manual, believe it or not, does not have a torque value printed for the bolt that secures the tensioner pulley (for those who don't know, this is the pulley that pivots with the tensioner applying pressure, keeping the TB tight) to the water pump housing.

I stopped at a Honda dealer, went into the parts/service dept. and asked if a tech. was available so that I could inquire as to what torque value to use on a V6 honda engine. I was lucky, so I thought, there happen to be a technician standing at the parts counter conducting other business and he was pointed out by his parts counter buddies, whom assured me that he had done many TB's. I had a copy of the helms manual page that depicted all the TB components in blow-out fashion. So, I kindly showed the tech. the diagram page, explained that I could not find the torque spec. in the helms, and asked, in front of his buddies, can you tell me the torque value that you would use for this tensioner bolt in doing a TB replacement on a Honda V6?

His answer was 'good and tight'. I stood there dumbfonded, and asked if it (the torque spec.) was available in any of the shop manuals on the premises?

I could'nt believe it, he stated that he did not refer to the manuals and 'had a feel' for how tight to secure the bolt when he performed the job.

I looked up at him and his buddies and stated: I would not have my TB done at this dealership, and walked the F out of there.

Went down the street to the Acura dealer, where I should have went in the first place, asked a service writer if he could ask one of his master techs. the spec. and came back with 19lbs.-ft.

NAiL05

At that point that person must have been lazy. Honda has an informative database that will show you the blowout/tq spec. I forgot what it was called but I used it while I was up in school for IL. So many free resources.

denny crane

So if its a strangers car they just wing it? Are you talking about other repairmen?

NAiL05

Im just saying there is common sense applied to tightening an oil drain plug. And no I do not mean they wing it. Its still tight but tight enough to where it will not leak. But I have seen plenty of other peoples fuck ups from overtightening.