pilozm

Car and Driver did a $35K comparison of Sport Sedans. The comparo included 8 sedans, including some of the usual suspects mentioned in this forum.
The TL came in 4th.

1st place - BMW 330i
2nd place - Lexus IS350
3rd place - Infiniti G35
4th place - Acura TL
5th place - Audi A43.2 Quattro
6th place - Cadillac CTS
7th place - Volvo S60R AWD
8th place - Saab 9-3 Aero

Of course we were up against some very stiff competition and they mention that the TL has few disappointments.
They do list the "Price as Tested" of all the cars and the BMW, Audi, Volvo and Lexus are all $40K or more, so we clearly get our money's worth.
Good reading....

mio

I don't know whether have u guys read the "car and driver" Oct, 2005.

There is a $35,000 sports sedans comparison test...

So,

the first place: BMW 330i

the Second: Lexus IS350

Third place: Inifiniti G35

Fourth place: Acura TL
(Highs: Lubricated controls, a V6that loves its redline, everyone's favorite backseat.

Lows: Jittery ride, steering gets squirmy when you goose it.

The verdict: A sharp design without fatal flaws.)

Fifth Place: Audi A4 3.2 Quattro

6 place: Cadillac CTS

7 place: Volvo S60R AWD

8 place: Saab 9-3 Aero

Just wanna share this with u guys~ ...

bulacura

looks like the top 3 are rear wheel drive!!

MR1

No suprise there.

Thanks mio

datplayaz

I'm kinda supriese that the BMW 330i was on top... I figure it would be the new Lexus IS350 and the the BMW.

mickey3c

but if they had a 40K A-spec would it have placed better in the test...

KilroyR1

How do you buy a 330i for $35K?

cM3go

with no options

GIBSON6594

Those three that topped the TL deserve to (G is a matter of opinion, but i agree), but like Kilroy said, good luck getting two of them for 35.

KilroyR1

They start over $37K with no options!

-No leather
-No sat radio
-No Bluetooth
-No metalic paint
-No heated seats

Great cars, but they are very expensive and I would say they are not in the same class.

cM3go

Merged threads...

cM3go

Maybe they had one without the back seat

2005Aspec

This thread is going on elsewhere.

The damn BMW broke down and it's a shitbox. It's ridiculous the rim job BMW gives to these mags to get these results.

(Unless this is a different test from the last debate re: the BMW breaking down)

tmitch2315

From a size standpoint it seems when I drove a BMW 3 series four door that it was a lot smaller car. The 5 series seemed about the same size inside as the TL. They should take points off for how much time you spend in the shop. See consumers report this month on that score. Beemers and Merc were at the bottom of the list when it came to reliability. I have 21,000 miles on my TL and have been to the dealer once for service (I do my own oil) and that was to get a new free battery.

Its my guess that BMW has never sold a 330 for $35,000. For that price you have to paint it yourself. The IS350 looks like real trouble for the TL and the G35, if they have fixed up the interior, is also trouble. We are the winners they all keep getting better and better.

trancemission

I dont know why everyone wants to compare the TL to the BMW. For the money, the TL is waaaayy better.

zli05

you only can buy a fully load BMW 330i at fully load TL price, if BMW doesn't come with its engine. A fully load 330i is f**king close to 47k without tax.

TampaMike

Maybe that's why the BMW crapped out on them...they got the one without an engine to make it appear more comparable to the TLs content?

mickey3c

ok ok take off the BMW and the IS. OK now TL is no 2... but the audi and volvo are not cheap either.. So out of 8 cars you have maybe 3 or 4. and saying no fatal flaws is not exactly a complement

pilozm

Here's the "Price as Tested:"
1st place - BMW 330i - $42,390
2nd place - Lexus IS350 - $40,000 (Estimated)
3rd place - Infiniti G35 - $34,760
4th place - Acura TL - $35,870
5th place - Audi A43.2 Quattro - $41,520
6th place - Cadillac CTS - $36,515
7th place - Volvo S60R AWD - $47,600
8th place - Saab 9-3 Aero- $34,445

The Volvo really appears in a different price range.
C&D also mentions that the Bimmer had various electronic 'glitches'. One of these glitches prevented them from completing braking tests on the 330i.

rgr

The BMWs (Blind Magazine Writers) at Car & Briber have lost all touch with reality. Quantitatively the Acura out-accelerates, out-turns and out-slaloms the BMW. In previous reviews they said that the TL's front-wheel drive was a "fatal flaw" - with these results they have grudgingly toned that down a bit.
In spite of it's "cold interior design, fritzing electronics and Platinum Visa price" the over-priced Bavarian maintenance nightmare still placed first???
If I ever spend a day at the track I might rent an M3; In the real world where I drive to work and haul my kids to soccer the Acura's reliability, spaciousness and VALUE are second to-none. Did I mention that I always take the long way?

chill_dog

Uh, if this is a comparison of $35k cars, why are half of them $40k or more? Only 4 cars in that list are $35k cars...the rest are in a whole other price bracket - $45k. Maybe the C&D guys don't know math...

GIBSON6594

I think the $35K refers to the base price of the cars...the prices given by C&D are the prices "as tested"

03CoupeV6

FWIW, if you see their chart of "numbers" that they total to determine what place cars end up - the math is full of errors.

6MTPlease

In some ways, Acura hurts itself in this kind of comparison test by not lowballing us with a stripper version of its cars. Aside from the navi option and choice of tranny, the TL comes one way: loaded. (I don't think a boy-racer package like A-Spec really counts; that's just an attempt to get some of the "tuner" profits)

What kind of BMW do you get for under $35k list? Not a 330. Not even a 325 optioned anywhere close to "base" TL. Nobody matches Acura for content per $. Now if we ignore price and simply get into performance, then we're dealing with preferences, biases, and other intangibles. I cosidered both the BMW and the Infiniti before buying the TL. The G35 was hugely disappointing, and while I liked driving the BMW, I couldn't quite get past the rinky dink interior detail and quality. (I would expect those cup holders in a Saturn--not a $40k car!). And rear-wheel drive? Whoop-de-doo! I see no benefit for 90+% of daily driving and only hassle when the snow flies.

Besides, I, like most of us, have to consider price. Realistically, for me, it was between the power of the TL with its noticeable torque-steer and the noticeably tepid acceleration of the 325i. Easy decision.

mickey3c

Now it sounds like you're a tad biased... the reliability record for acura has fallen. In the area of initial quality acura fell from the top 3 to about 12th. I do not have the article in front of my and Consumers did not list the 3g as one of the used cars with a better than average reliability record. As for the rest well it is a magazine ... A front driver will never be on a par with a rear... The rear is more fun to drive...

Scribesoft

Here's the link to the article if you're interested...

Car & Driver - 35k Sports Sedans

mickey3c

wow the BMW is a piece of crap quality wise and has gone down hill over the years. I cannot get over all the problems they had with it. The only reason the I350 is there is because of the 5.1 0-60 times and the superior braking. That's it! Save the money and get a G or the TL. That's what the article tell you... Sure get the Bimmer if you can forgive all the quality issues. I wouldn't get a model year IS on a bet.. Tells me you are left with two options...

clsdave

I believe C&D is certainly RWD and BMW biased. If you never have to drive in snow, ice or any slippery road condition and have a lot of disposable income than the BMW could be as good as they say.

There are many factors to consider for a car to be at the top of a "overall best list". It seems these two are a must for C&D. Everyone does not drive in the same road conditions so FWD might be better for some. If they more accurately name their list to include "Best RWD" I would tend to agree with them.

I like BMW but not as much as they do! There are plenty of other cars that should make it to the top of their list a little more often.

2005Aspec

Please, the BMW is lackluster, it's not even the best RWD car in that list, it's a bunch of horse shit.

clsdave

You're right. I just didn't want to be so negative about C&D. I do like them but do find they are biased.

priggly

From the article:

Our 330i labored hard to lose. The electrical ticks began shortly after it was delivered. The new 3-series has a push-button start. Ours would work only after several exasperated pushes and fiddling with the key. Why, we wondered in the free moments this created, must you even insert the "key" into the dash when many push-button systems, including the IS350's, allow the radio-transmitting key fob to roam free?

Then the ABS lamp lit. We tried to execute one stop on our high-desert test road and nearly executed a 360 spin at 70 mph instead (thus, our braking number is from a previous test). Shortly thereafter several airbag-malfunction warnings lit up. Maybe it was just a coincidence.

Even with its dash ablaze in emergency alerts, the 330i wormed its way into our hearts.

This article completely negates any reputation C&D had left as an objective source for automotive information and informed opinion. The magazine reveals itself to be nothing less than a BMW shill. Instead of failing the test, or at least coming dead last, as it most clearly deserved to, the BMW is awarded first place! Absolutely incredible!

This is analogous to a student totally flunking a critical part of an exam but the teacher instead of awarding the obviously deserved failing grade decides to overlook it based on performance in an earlier test and even goes so far as to replace the failing mark with the favorable test score from the previous test for the particular task in question.

This incident further underscores what is becoming a culture of deceptiveness in the greater society superimposed upon a progressive lowering of standards.

Sad. Very sad indeed.

56Oval

So if the article were actually looking at $35k sedans, you're down to the G35 and the TL. The G35 outhandles the TL and is very fast, but the TL is a MUCH MUCH nicer car! The interior of the G35 is cheap, plasticy and ugly (those air vents) even with their latest modifications to it.

That's why I bought a TL! :-)

As mentioned by others, the BMW and Lexus shouldn't have even been in the test, for the reason that they aren't close to $35k for a comparable model, and they are really compact-class cars. The TL competes in the mid-size class with the A6 and 5-series. And the TL will smoke a 530i!

1995hoo

I subscribe to Car and Driver (and to Road & Track) and I recall that one of their comments about the TL was that it was the limo of the group in terms of interior space.

VChron

C&D acted correctly. Keep in mind that the ultimate objective of these tests is to guage the performance of the models - not the test samples, which are merely the means to the end. The braking results of the sample BMW were affected by a defect that is clearly not representative of BMW 330i's as a whole. Also, reliability is not a component of the test - appropriately so, because reliability cannot be judged from a single sample.

The case of the student is fundamentally different, because the student represents only himself on his exams.

Other than that, I don't care to comment on how C&D tested and scored the cars.

rgr

Are you kidding? How many times in life do you only get ONE chance to make an impression? Screw it up, and your done. Unlike Consumer Reports, where the magazine acutally buys their test cars, Car & Driver gets their test mules from the manufacturers (via local dealers) who know exactly what the cars will be used for. Besides, the BMW did not have one isolated problem, it had several. Its embarrassing for the "Ultimate Driving Machine", but even more so for the biased writers who think most of us would spend $42k on a finicky BMW when you can get a TL for $35k.

(So what if the BMW can beat my car at 10/10ths driving on a straight dry road - at the rate the police are handing out speeding tickets in my town I can't even go 7/10ths most of the time. Like I said earlier, if I go to the track I will use some of the $7k I saved when I bought the TL and rent an M3.)

hcekc

Here's a quote from the article:

"It helps that this 330i was ordered just right, meaning with a six-speed manual and without the wonky active steering and the atrocious iDrive. Both are warts on the options sheet to be avoided at all costs. Buy an aftermarket navigation system if such things matter to you. The new 3's interior, although beautifully tailored with wood accents and leather sport seats, didn't satisfy all. The radio display is hard to read and harder to operate, the A/C struggled in the heat, and the dash is a meniscus that curves coldly away from you. It's easy to feel like just a cog in the machine. But, oh, what a machine!"

What a joke! They can brag about their Bimmer's performance all they want, but only while their cars are in the shop. While we TL owners enjoy the ride and all the comforts for $10k less.

hcekc

Check out the article with picture of interior on 330i. I find the interior dated and the wood trim looks a bit trashy.

http://www.caranddriver.com/article....page_number=10

TampaMike

Maybe they should rename the mag as "Drivetrain & Driver"? It seems that is the only part of the car they value. For me, the engine / drivetrain, though a priority, is not the total car.

hcekc

I 2nd that!

Saintor

Get REAL.

How about *this*; the 330i won ALL the comparos it was in (North America).

It is the one that is the most likely to bring you a large smile on your face. It is simply The Best Toy and it has tons of character (much more than others).

And reliability for first years have been quite good. Despite a reliability just above average , the level of satisfaction of 3-series owners is the best of the industry.

Respect for the king, please.