Newbie here....Acura TL or 3 series?
09-17-2011, 09:51 PM
#1
Newbie here....Acura TL or 3 series?
I'm kind of leaning towards a zhp but i'll go for any other e46...or an acura tl...I know most of you will say the acura tl, but i am a former bmw owner;however i have driven the tl and fallen in love a couple times. it has the same performance, and even more power with lower maintenance. I used to have an 03 325i that was trouble free, so I'm deciding if I should go back or go to something new. I LOVE bmws, but i'm a 19 year old college kid and i'd like comfort, and performance. I'm highly educated when it comes to these cars..im not just any teenager that wants a flashy bmw or acura.
i'm looking at a 6spd manual 3rd gen TL or a manual trans e46 (2002-2005)
Any advice?
Thanks in advance.
i'm looking at a 6spd manual 3rd gen TL or a manual trans e46 (2002-2005)
Any advice?
Thanks in advance.
09-17-2011, 09:58 PM
#2
Early Shifter
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I'm about 3 weeks into owning my 06 MT/Nav and am very impressed so far. The biggest amazement is the gas mileage with mostly highway/conservative driving. All around just an excellent car so far.
The only thing that pisses me off is that the back seats don't fold down, not a huge deal by far just a minor annoyance.
The other thing that is sort of annoying is the placement of the front floor mat clips, they're located almost under the front seat so to gain access to them the seat must be moved.
So far those are my only gripes.
The only thing that pisses me off is that the back seats don't fold down, not a huge deal by far just a minor annoyance.
The other thing that is sort of annoying is the placement of the front floor mat clips, they're located almost under the front seat so to gain access to them the seat must be moved.
So far those are my only gripes.
09-17-2011, 10:49 PM
#3
Personally, I feel like the TL is a more well rounded and practical car... also i think you get more for your money, larger car, more features. More akin to a 5 series then a 3 imo, but still at a 3 price point.
I drove an 11' 335i yesterday actually, and was very unimpressed. Very underwhelming blah design that actually seemed very similar to a civic, although the driving dynamics of a civic seem better to me! I dont know what the reviewers see in the new 3 series, but the older ones seem to be a better quality car... seems like BMW is going the way of honda and relying on their badge and not their product.
I drove an 11' 335i yesterday actually, and was very unimpressed. Very underwhelming blah design that actually seemed very similar to a civic, although the driving dynamics of a civic seem better to me! I dont know what the reviewers see in the new 3 series, but the older ones seem to be a better quality car... seems like BMW is going the way of honda and relying on their badge and not their product.
09-17-2011, 11:07 PM
#4
Personally, I feel like the TL is a more well rounded and practical car... also i think you get more for your money, larger car, more features. More akin to a 5 series then a 3 imo, but still at a 3 price point.
I drove an 11' 335i yesterday actually, and was very unimpressed. Very underwhelming blah design that actually seemed very similar to a civic, although the driving dynamics of a civic seem better to me! I dont know what the reviewers see in the new 3 series, but the older ones seem to be a better quality car... seems like BMW is going the way of honda and relying on their badge and not their product.
I drove an 11' 335i yesterday actually, and was very unimpressed. Very underwhelming blah design that actually seemed very similar to a civic, although the driving dynamics of a civic seem better to me! I dont know what the reviewers see in the new 3 series, but the older ones seem to be a better quality car... seems like BMW is going the way of honda and relying on their badge and not their product.
09-17-2011, 11:14 PM
#5
With my cat deletes and straight pipe, my TL feels a LOT faster than the 3 I drove yesterday, Im not sure what the exact number are, and with the 335i having 300hp im assuming the 2011 335i is faster but it felt so heavy.. very 'unmotivated', felt like i was towing an anchor.
The older 3's, generally i would say the TL would be faster. I've had a couple short races with older model 3 series and my tl has lagged off the line but passes right after. Obviously the m3 and such would be faster.
One thing I really like about the TL, if your going to be getting an auto which seeing as your a BMW person I doubt you would, but the shift points on the TL are perfect for everyday driving, TONS of power right where you need it, the bmw's I've driven in auto just seem.... lazy.
The older 3's, generally i would say the TL would be faster. I've had a couple short races with older model 3 series and my tl has lagged off the line but passes right after. Obviously the m3 and such would be faster.
One thing I really like about the TL, if your going to be getting an auto which seeing as your a BMW person I doubt you would, but the shift points on the TL are perfect for everyday driving, TONS of power right where you need it, the bmw's I've driven in auto just seem.... lazy.
09-17-2011, 11:15 PM
#6
Instructor
Hmm. not sure about the TL (even the type s) being faster than the 335i. BMW must have really lost their way if their 335i is performing the way Brandon21 described it. Sad
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justnspace (09-18-2011)
09-17-2011, 11:19 PM
#7
Senior Moderator
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The TL felt more faster than a 335i? Umm ok. I've driven a 335i. BMW underestimates HP in IMHO. The Base TL puts around 215 -225 hp to the wheels. The 335i puts about 300hp to the wheels. Try again.
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justnspace (09-18-2011)
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09-17-2011, 11:21 PM
#8
I would go ith a manual all day lol, but it look like the bmw is the ultimate handling machine, I guess that doesn't matter much...I'm not a race car driver, but i am young and I do wanna have fun haha
09-17-2011, 11:21 PM
#9
the overexplainer
my dad's 01 325i 5MT broke all 4 window regulators, which had to be replaced at over 100+ a piece. He did the fix himself. His E46 believe it or not has under 50k miles as of this post.
not to mention problems with the oil sensor going bad, a leak from the windshield washer fluid pump, a very imprecise, long throw shifter (compared to the TL), and a terrible drive by wire throttle. Also has this engine drone at hwy cruising speed. On a slight incline it can be pretty annoying.
I'd choose the TL by far. A larger, more practical and reliable car. I've driven it 10k miles since i bought it in Feb and havent had any problems with the electronics or anything really mechanical other than a broken side engine mount.
not to mention problems with the oil sensor going bad, a leak from the windshield washer fluid pump, a very imprecise, long throw shifter (compared to the TL), and a terrible drive by wire throttle. Also has this engine drone at hwy cruising speed. On a slight incline it can be pretty annoying.
I'd choose the TL by far. A larger, more practical and reliable car. I've driven it 10k miles since i bought it in Feb and havent had any problems with the electronics or anything really mechanical other than a broken side engine mount.
Last edited by ez12a; 09-17-2011 at 11:26 PM.
09-17-2011, 11:22 PM
#10
I said it FEELS slower. I never said it was. I said the exact opposite actually.
09-17-2011, 11:25 PM
#11
Senior Moderator
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justnspace (09-18-2011)
09-17-2011, 11:25 PM
#12
Thinking you meant, "The TL felt faster than a 335i?"
09-17-2011, 11:29 PM
#13
Alright bud, let me lay it out for you.
the 335i I drove, in automatic felt slower than the TL due to the shift points. It did not have the FEELING of power the TL does, IE: exhaust note, revs, etc.
I did NOT say the TL WAS faster! I said the exact opposite, that the 2011 335i would obviously beat out the TL (even the new sh-awd TL).
Im sure that the manual 335i would feel much faster.
Do you need me to clarify what FEEL means?
the 335i I drove, in automatic felt slower than the TL due to the shift points. It did not have the FEELING of power the TL does, IE: exhaust note, revs, etc.
I did NOT say the TL WAS faster! I said the exact opposite, that the 2011 335i would obviously beat out the TL (even the new sh-awd TL).
Im sure that the manual 335i would feel much faster.
Do you need me to clarify what FEEL means?
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Brandon21 (09-17-2011)
09-17-2011, 11:32 PM
#15
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Alright bud, let me lay it out for you.
the 335i I drove, in automatic felt slower than the TL due to the shift points. It did not have the FEELING of power the TL does, IE: exhaust note, revs, etc.
I did NOT say the TL WAS faster! I said the exact opposite, that the 2011 335i would obviously beat out the TL (even the new sh-awd TL).
Im sure that the manual 335i would feel much faster.
Do you need me to clarify what FEEL means?
the 335i I drove, in automatic felt slower than the TL due to the shift points. It did not have the FEELING of power the TL does, IE: exhaust note, revs, etc.
I did NOT say the TL WAS faster! I said the exact opposite, that the 2011 335i would obviously beat out the TL (even the new sh-awd TL).
Im sure that the manual 335i would feel much faster.
Do you need me to clarify what FEEL means?
Last edited by ggesq; 09-17-2011 at 11:35 PM.
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justnspace (09-18-2011)
09-17-2011, 11:34 PM
#16
My friends CL55 AMG IS faster than my TL but doesn't "feel" fast because the benz has such a smooth ride and just keeps going without feeling any shifts, whereas my TL "feels" faster because of it's mods and harder shifts and pull.
I understand you Brandon.
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Brandon21 (09-17-2011)
09-17-2011, 11:36 PM
#18
the overexplainer
also i think it's established the manual TL is faster than any e46 but the E46 M3.
09-17-2011, 11:37 PM
#20
I drove a 335i yesterday! It FELT slow. Not saying it is! If the TL and a 335i would race the BMW would win!
09-17-2011, 11:39 PM
#22
Brandon said "feels faster, although it is not."
My friends CL55 AMG IS faster than my TL but doesn't "feel" fast because the benz has such a smooth ride and just keeps going without feeling any shifts, whereas my TL "feels" faster because of it's mods and harder shifts and pull.
I understand you Brandon.
My friends CL55 AMG IS faster than my TL but doesn't "feel" fast because the benz has such a smooth ride and just keeps going without feeling any shifts, whereas my TL "feels" faster because of it's mods and harder shifts and pull.
I understand you Brandon.
09-17-2011, 11:42 PM
#23
Not sure if this is what you mean, but only use premium! Using anything less may cost you less at the pump... but with the lost performance and gas milage it would probably end up costing you more in the end. I generally use Shell gas.
09-17-2011, 11:57 PM
#26
Senior Moderator
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Brandon21 (09-18-2011)
09-18-2011, 12:05 AM
#27
09-18-2011, 12:16 AM
#28
Instructor
we should just team up and bash on is350s and g35s. i've always hated the fact that g35 and is350 drivers don't acknowledge my tl-s because it's a fwd. i know it's an antique topic, but it drives me nuts everyday!
09-18-2011, 12:53 AM
#30
With my cat deletes and straight pipe, my TL feels a LOT faster than the 3 I drove yesterday, Im not sure what the exact number are, and with the 335i having 300hp im assuming the 2011 335i is faster but it felt so heavy.. very 'unmotivated', felt like i was towing an anchor.
The older 3's, generally i would say the TL would be faster. I've had a couple short races with older model 3 series and my tl has lagged off the line but passes right after. Obviously the m3 and such would be faster.
One thing I really like about the TL, if your going to be getting an auto which seeing as your a BMW person I doubt you would, but the shift points on the TL are perfect for everyday driving, TONS of power right where you need it, the bmw's I've driven in auto just seem.... lazy.
The older 3's, generally i would say the TL would be faster. I've had a couple short races with older model 3 series and my tl has lagged off the line but passes right after. Obviously the m3 and such would be faster.
One thing I really like about the TL, if your going to be getting an auto which seeing as your a BMW person I doubt you would, but the shift points on the TL are perfect for everyday driving, TONS of power right where you need it, the bmw's I've driven in auto just seem.... lazy.
335I is faster.
If you're not getting a 335I, then I would say no to almost all BMWs minus maybe a M series.
BMW 3 series are known for a MAJOR drop in resale value. A 44k BMW goes for 18K in 2 years. As a Type-S 08 for 36K still goes for 23-30k in 4 years.
09-18-2011, 02:11 AM
#32
Suzuka Master
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Just to throw some gas onto the fire, 
I am with ggesq on this & I have a real hard time understanding how a low 14 second car could feel faster then a low 13 second car that has traction issues on a launch, can slip all the way to the 1/2 shift & chirps on the 2/3 - 3/4 shifts.
My ‘06 TL 6MT was close to my ‘04 330Ci ZHP 6MT in acceleration. Best start would win most of the time with the TL having the edge with both cars running in the low 14’s so I know how a TL feels when pulling hard.
My 335is is a sub 5 second to 60 car that can run in the low 13’s without a tune & 12’s with just a $300 piggy back unit & no other mods. This vid is a guys first time at the track in a duplicate of my car.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OFjQ3qCV3rE
Takes a minute or so with some burnouts before it gets to the point, but the runs are pure stock 13.1 @ 108mph, 13.5 @ 106mph & 13.4 @ 109mph. Its a given that the IS is a little quicker then the I version but still the I is very quick.
I am with ggesq on this & I have a real hard time understanding how a low 14 second car could feel faster then a low 13 second car that has traction issues on a launch, can slip all the way to the 1/2 shift & chirps on the 2/3 - 3/4 shifts. My ‘06 TL 6MT was close to my ‘04 330Ci ZHP 6MT in acceleration. Best start would win most of the time with the TL having the edge with both cars running in the low 14’s so I know how a TL feels when pulling hard.
My 335is is a sub 5 second to 60 car that can run in the low 13’s without a tune & 12’s with just a $300 piggy back unit & no other mods. This vid is a guys first time at the track in a duplicate of my car.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OFjQ3qCV3rE
Takes a minute or so with some burnouts before it gets to the point, but the runs are pure stock 13.1 @ 108mph, 13.5 @ 106mph & 13.4 @ 109mph. Its a given that the IS is a little quicker then the I version but still the I is very quick.
Last edited by BEAR-AvHistory; 09-18-2011 at 02:17 AM.
09-18-2011, 02:18 AM
#33
Advanced
The 335 is much faster but I doubt it puts 300 hp to the wheels; that would mean no drivetrain power loss--an impossibility.
09-18-2011, 03:11 AM
#35
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The 335IS puts down about 310whp the 335I about 280whp. Numbers can vary but the factory crank HP rating is 300hp for the 335I & 320hp for the 335IS. Both numbers are thought to be underrated somewhat because the 335IS motor in the Z car & 1M coupe is rated at 335HP.
The key to these cars is not the HP but the fact that 100% of the torque is available @ 1500RPM. They also have an over-boost program in the ECU that allows 14.5lbs. of boost for 7-9 seconds that produces 370ft lbs of torque up from 332ft lbs.
BTW our ZHP has over 90K miles on it & no repair work outside of normal wear items like brakes, tires etc. That being said if something does break a TL would be cheaper to have fixed if you can’t do your own work.
The key to these cars is not the HP but the fact that 100% of the torque is available @ 1500RPM. They also have an over-boost program in the ECU that allows 14.5lbs. of boost for 7-9 seconds that produces 370ft lbs of torque up from 332ft lbs.
BTW our ZHP has over 90K miles on it & no repair work outside of normal wear items like brakes, tires etc. That being said if something does break a TL would be cheaper to have fixed if you can’t do your own work.
Last edited by BEAR-AvHistory; 09-18-2011 at 03:17 AM.
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09-18-2011, 09:21 AM
#36
Racer
I'm kind of leaning towards a zhp but i'll go for any other e46...or an acura tl...I know most of you will say the acura tl, but i am a former bmw owner;however i have driven the tl and fallen in love a couple times. it has the same performance, and even more power with lower maintenance. I used to have an 03 325i that was trouble free, so I'm deciding if I should go back or go to something new. I LOVE bmws, but i'm a 19 year old college kid and i'd like comfort, and performance. I'm highly educated when it comes to these cars..im not just any teenager that wants a flashy bmw or acura.
i'm looking at a 6spd manual 3rd gen TL or a manual trans e46 (2002-2005)
Any advice?
Thanks in advance.
i'm looking at a 6spd manual 3rd gen TL or a manual trans e46 (2002-2005)
Any advice?
Thanks in advance.
On the experience side, I owned a 2001 Audi A4 that literally put me on a first-name basis with the service advisors. Traded it right before the warranty expired. Now I have a 6MT '04 TL (bought new) with 117,000 miles and (knock on wood) has given me no real issues. Since I already have my babe, that leaves more money for
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justnspace (09-18-2011)
09-18-2011, 11:02 AM
#37
David_Dude
If I were in college and had this decision, I'd have to base it on historical reliability. (I know...borrrrrrring.) Less money spent on the car means more money for babes and beer...
On the experience side, I owned a 2001 Audi A4 that literally put me on a first-name basis with the service advisors. Traded it right before the warranty expired. Now I have a 6MT '04 TL (bought new) with 117,000 miles and (knock on wood) has given me no real issues. Since I already have my babe, that leaves more money for
On the experience side, I owned a 2001 Audi A4 that literally put me on a first-name basis with the service advisors. Traded it right before the warranty expired. Now I have a 6MT '04 TL (bought new) with 117,000 miles and (knock on wood) has given me no real issues. Since I already have my babe, that leaves more money for
And +1 on the babe.The 335IS puts down about 310whp the 335I about 280whp. Numbers can vary but the factory crank HP rating is 300hp for the 335I & 320hp for the 335IS. Both numbers are thought to be underrated somewhat because the 335IS motor in the Z car & 1M coupe is rated at 335HP.
The key to these cars is not the HP but the fact that 100% of the torque is available @ 1500RPM. They also have an over-boost program in the ECU that allows 14.5lbs. of boost for 7-9 seconds that produces 370ft lbs of torque up from 332ft lbs.
BTW our ZHP has over 90K miles on it & no repair work outside of normal wear items like brakes, tires etc. That being said if something does break a TL would be cheaper to have fixed if you can’t do your own work.
The key to these cars is not the HP but the fact that 100% of the torque is available @ 1500RPM. They also have an over-boost program in the ECU that allows 14.5lbs. of boost for 7-9 seconds that produces 370ft lbs of torque up from 332ft lbs.
BTW our ZHP has over 90K miles on it & no repair work outside of normal wear items like brakes, tires etc. That being said if something does break a TL would be cheaper to have fixed if you can’t do your own work.
Still reliability sucks PERIOD. I also don't see many success stories about german vehicles outside the warranty. Maybe people just post more about the negatives instead of the positives.
But an Acura is pretty much always more reliable compared to a BMW/Audi/MB... etc.
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Pat04TL (09-18-2011)
09-18-2011, 11:41 AM
#38
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We have had pretty good luck with reliability of all our cars regardless of make & IIRC nothing I presently own has had anything but normal maintenance other then the '06 TL 6MT that I just sold. (3 recalls, tail light replacement & a 3rd gear replacement under TSB)
I don't know if understating power is a German thing or not....have no real familiarity with either Audi or VW. Had I looked to Audi I would most have likely bought a 3320lbs TT/RS which does 0-60 in 3.6 seconds & 12.1/113mph in the quarter on a posted crank horsepower of 335. Could be underrated
I think some of the surveys way overstate the various cars issues like the JD Power new car satisfaction survey that would list unhappiness with a cup holder placement as an issue equal to stalling in the middle of an intersection.
BTW: I am doing the first non-regular maintenance item on my 1998 Ranger this weekend. The A/C compressor crapped out after 13 years. I mail ordered a new Motorcraft one for $180 delivered.
I don't know if understating power is a German thing or not....have no real familiarity with either Audi or VW. Had I looked to Audi I would most have likely bought a 3320lbs TT/RS which does 0-60 in 3.6 seconds & 12.1/113mph in the quarter on a posted crank horsepower of 335. Could be underrated
I think some of the surveys way overstate the various cars issues like the JD Power new car satisfaction survey that would list unhappiness with a cup holder placement as an issue equal to stalling in the middle of an intersection.
BTW: I am doing the first non-regular maintenance item on my 1998 Ranger this weekend. The A/C compressor crapped out after 13 years. I mail ordered a new Motorcraft one for $180 delivered.
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Acura_Dude (09-18-2011)
09-18-2011, 11:43 AM
#39
Safety Car
I have had my 05' TL 6 speed since 2004 and while I initially loved it, 55,000 miles later this thing is falling apart. Nothing too major, just a lot small annoying things that just shouldn't be happening on a "luxury" car.
some examples.
1. rattles
2. door lock in rear doesn't work anymore
3. cruise control switch on wheel no longer "catches" so cruise doesn't stay on unless I stick a small piece of plastic in between
4. Lights next to the navi screen indicating the temperature up/down arrows go out without warning and then come back on after tapping it.
5. Side marker light on drivers side does the same thing
6. retractable cup hold cover split in 4 different places.
7. poor quality "leather"
Others have experienced dash board cracking/fading and other electrical issues.
If you are only set on the BMW or Acura I would reluctantly go with the Acura just because its less money for comparable features and in college spending less on modes of transportation is probably the best decision at this point in your life. Just be warned at around 45 - 50k miles things will probably start to fall apart. But if you don't plan to keep it that long, then you should be good for the time you are in school. Personally if I were in this price range, I would look at Infiniti.
some examples.
1. rattles
2. door lock in rear doesn't work anymore
3. cruise control switch on wheel no longer "catches" so cruise doesn't stay on unless I stick a small piece of plastic in between
4. Lights next to the navi screen indicating the temperature up/down arrows go out without warning and then come back on after tapping it.
5. Side marker light on drivers side does the same thing
6. retractable cup hold cover split in 4 different places.
7. poor quality "leather"
Others have experienced dash board cracking/fading and other electrical issues.
If you are only set on the BMW or Acura I would reluctantly go with the Acura just because its less money for comparable features and in college spending less on modes of transportation is probably the best decision at this point in your life. Just be warned at around 45 - 50k miles things will probably start to fall apart. But if you don't plan to keep it that long, then you should be good for the time you are in school. Personally if I were in this price range, I would look at Infiniti.
09-18-2011, 11:51 AM
#40
Three Wheelin'
This is very much a right brain vs left brain decision IMHO
The TL will
-Cost less
-have higher resale
- cost less to run
- be more reliable
The BMW will
-handle better, though you might have to do track type stuff to really appreciate it.
- Have more power depending on the model
- look better (IMHO)
- is probably more prestigious.
End the end you get much more for your dollar with a TL. No mistake that its a very nice car. However I'd rather own the BMW. If money wasn't an issue, I'd take it hands down. However I ended up with the TL 'cause I didn't think BMW had earned the premium over the TL.
The TL will
-Cost less
-have higher resale
- cost less to run
- be more reliable
The BMW will
-handle better, though you might have to do track type stuff to really appreciate it.
- Have more power depending on the model
- look better (IMHO)
- is probably more prestigious.
End the end you get much more for your dollar with a TL. No mistake that its a very nice car. However I'd rather own the BMW. If money wasn't an issue, I'd take it hands down. However I ended up with the TL 'cause I didn't think BMW had earned the premium over the TL.