I haven't done anything major, just stage 3 exhaust, intake resonator removal, seafoamed, coolant bypass, k&n drop in filter.

Getting onto I-75 S at Pat Salerno this guy sees me passing him in my TL...I had a feeling he was going to be a flyby as I looked in my sideview he was not in sight so I new he had gunned it and passed me.

Ok...so I downshift and get behind him...we're going about 80 and coming up on an M3 so he slows down near him (my guess is the 335 didn't want to get smoked by the M3) and when we're ahead of the M3 the 335 takes off...he looks like he has new mufflers cause they were borla chrome looking ones and engine smoke was coming out of them so I could tell he was punching it. Seemed Auto by the way it was shifting...when we were clear, i downshifted and dropped into the right lane and ended up walking him. We shut down at 120 or so (yes I'm old enough to know that's not smart...but I still have my little spurts when there's no traffic around).

Aren't the 335's twin turbo or something? Or do I just have a fast TL?

Whatever, thought I'd share. Not one of these people that acts like my car is fast. I don't kid myself...I know it's only faster than the other cars out there that are slower.

 

Don't know what happened there but good kill I guess lol

A 335i should kill any TL at any speed.

 

something wrong there lol any 335 would walk a stock TL.

 

with the last two posts. My son made a similar claim about his Altima 3.5SE 5MT beating a 335i. I explained to him that while I don't necessarily dispute his kill, it's possible he came across a steptronic 335i and/or the 335i needed a driver mod.....which he already knew.

 

In the end, nice kill!

 

It doesn't take too much of a driver mod to mash the gas in a roll race, but OP if you got a good jump on him it's possible he just couldn't overtake you by 120, or he could have been in the wrong gear.

 

+1 we are talking about a rated 300 twin turbo hp, 300 Torque -7K redline, 4.9 0-60, with a 13.6 quarter @ 105, but good run nonetheless

 

I've been around for awhile; you'd be surprised. Sometimes the driver loses his/her nerve doesn't fully commit to the run, backing/leveling off (sometimes wisely). Other drivers will jump into it hardcore-style just to make the point (that they have a faster car) more evident. The point is, there's more to driver mod that just -- as so eloquently stated -- 'mashing one's throttle'.

 

The auto will hit low 13s all day also, driver was not up the par with the car.

 

Or maybe it was a 330 and was mistaken for a 335. The 335 is in another league from the TL.

 

or it could have been a 335i convertible that's about 400-500lb heavier than a normal 335i..i sat in one before and it doesn't feel all that fast with all that weight. And some drivers think that short-shifting (as early as 4000rpm) using steptronic would make the car fast...so...who knows...

 

I don't know...
I DEF. am sure it was 335...to the point that I made sure it had the "I" at the end of it and nothing more. The way it shifted seemed auto...but if you could see how exhaust smoke came pouring out, i would be very surprised if he hadn't punched it. He was the one that was trying to mess with me...I just gave in and downshifted to 3rd at 80mph and from BEHIND I slowly crept up and passed him.

Whatever it is...I don't really mind whether or not I'm slower or faster. Just thought it was odd that I could have been able to keep up with and slowly pass a NON convertible black 335i coupe. I'm gonna take my factory freak to the track and bring you guys my 10 second 1/4 slip to prove it.

Lol.

 

It was probably a 330i, the car/motor the 335i replaced. They look exactly the same except for the exhaust pipes. The 330i in auto form was good for mid 14s at 95mph. An auto 335i is as quick, if not quicker, than the 6MT. It's easily a 13.6@104mph+ car especially if its cold out and it's topend pull is significantly better than any NA TL or TL-S.

 

I won't swear, cause there's always a chance of being wrong...but I knew the 335 was quick which is why I thought it strange.
I'm pretty positive it was a 335 and not a 330 but I'll leave room for being wrong.

It wasn't a hyundai excel though...I promise you that.

 

Did the pipes look like this:



or

 

I know those cars are fast 1/4 mile cars with RWD and great launching ability and all that low end torque and stuff but this race was from 80 mph, not from zero. That does not mean that stock for stock any 335 should not be faster but you guys make it sound like there is no chance. I went up against what I belive was an auto 335 in my stock 6MT TLS a while back, twice. Both times from about 80 mph through roughly 130 mph. It was neck and neck each time no pulling on either side whatsoever.

The issue here is not about the speed or whether it is safe or not to race on public roads, I know when to turn it up and when to shut it down, I am still here, but thank you anyway, so please refrain from those comments.

I know many cars have significant 1/4 mile advantages in straightline perfromance when compared to the TL but what I have to re-emphisize on this board over and over is that the advantage is drastically reduced from a roll and in high speed scenarios because those cars cannot utilize their strengths and what gives them most of their advantage over the TL in the first place. Zero to whatever mph or distance does not necessarily translate to 50 mph to or 80 mph to whatever. You can't accurately use 1/4 mile times to compare to a race that did not involve the same parameters.

And the argument that there was driver error and it was an auto is sort of a contridiction, there is far less room for error in an auto than a 6MT and the 3 appeared to hit it first so there is not much he could have done wrong if that was the case.

 

Driver mod doesn't necessarily mean driver error (per se) and may just be a matter of a 'different' type of driver with respect to the circumstance:

As for mid-range, a stock TL 6MT would make the initial go of it interesting but, the E90 will ultimately walk away from it. (I've not driven them head-to-head but have driven both vehicles on two different occasions.)

 

Normally, trap speed in the 1/4 mile is a good indication of who would win a roll race. If you think the 335 is all bottom end torque, you have it wrong. Being a twin turbo 6-cyl with pretty small turbos, it spools very fast and at low RPMs, but it still makes a great powerband all the way to the top. If the TL was a roll monster as seems to be your drift, I would expect higher trap speeds.

 

I had a similar experience in my modded CLs. I raced him from several red lights. (3am industrial area with no one else on the road) I know, stupid anyway. He took me by about half a car length twice and both times he shut down about 90 but I didn't so I won :P

Those fokkers are frreaking fast!

 

Based on the pictures above:

I can back my memory up and say definitively it WAS a 335i. It had aftermarket chrome borla looking exhaust (looked like the guy just put em on).
It was a guy and I think his girl...and he was young enough to not like the fact that I happen to be going faster than him in the sunpass lane so he gunned it. I'm old enough to pretty much know when someone's pushing it.

He gunned it, smoke came out (it shifted like an auto) and I slowly but surely crept up and passed him...After that happened he slowed down to legal speed and stayed way the hell back.

Who knows...it happened...that much I'm sure of...why it did...I couldn't tell you.

About it being irresponsible...trust me...I'm not darting between cars when something like this happens...there was a huge open space in front of me...I gave the big guy a thumbs up and blew my valentine one a kiss before hitting it. And I immediately shut down and dropped back to normal cruising speeds after that.

 

Improbable wins happen no doubt about that. For all we know, he had 500 lbs of chirstmas presents in the trunk. Also I wouldn't expect to see too much smoke coming out of a stock direct injection turbo'd vehicle, as they tend to run quite lean. Maybe whatever he did to his exhaust had him running rich and caused some power loss. Who knows...

Also the way you describe it is that he was already 100% throttle and ahead of you before you even gunned it. Something was definitely failure with his car if you were able to match speed and pass.

 

Well, I waited for his cue to take off and he was in front of me...so yes, I agree. Something wasn't right.

I felt pretty tough for a few seconds there though...

 

Hey I'm not trying to rain on your parade. A kill is a kill. He shouldn't have raced you if something was wrong.

I made the bad decision on my way back from the track yesterday, knowing I had a horribly glazed and slipping clutch, of racing a riced out GS-T eclipse. My clutch just slipped to redline when I punched it, and he slowly pulled away. I finally got it to grip when I shifted easy into 4th, but by that time he had a car and it was time to shut down (100+ mph). I just took the loss and gave him a thumbs up and a shrug. Moral of the story, take it easy until I replace my clutch. At least I know if I run into him again, it'll be a big surprise what happens... Little off topic I guess. lol.

 

That's not my argument, I already stated that any 335 should be faster but take away what allows it to really shine and the difference is not as much as everyone seems to want to believe based on 1/4 mile stats and times that have no relevence in this situation. You can project from those #'s but that's all it is, a projection. Some of us have been in the situation with at least one of these cars.

The 335 is not all low end power but in a situation where a lot of it's peak #'s are not in use it will be closer than 1/4 mile runs will indicate. The TL band is flat and consistant, the twin turbo drops over 40% in torque from around 4k-7k rpms. Regardless, I still believe it is faster than a TL 6MT and is a good race against TLS, specifically in these situations. If the 335 was a 6MT I would probably not even make it a discussion and for whatver it's worth the OP's TL is not stock.

 

My parade didn't feel rained on...lol.
I have yet to go to a track. And I'm only like 30 min. from Moroso.

For me, it's all in good fun. I don't bother messing with people most of the time, but this guy annoyed me with the way he came up on me with his new bimmer and he was gonna show this moron with a jap car...yada yada...so I figured why not drop my precious mpg I'd been working so hard to raise.

Ha ha...
anyway, happy holidays.

J.

 

As has been stated before in this thread, the auto 335s are very nearly as quick as the 6MT. Torque normally drops as the RPMs rise, that doesn't mean power drops off since the amount of actual work done per torque increases as RPMs increase. The 335 is also pretty badly under-rated from the factory as you will see later in this post.

Also, not even looking at ETs (pretend they don't even exist), trap speed in the 1/4 can be quite indicative of the topend (roll race) potential of a vehicle. If you don't believe me, try racing a car that you know traps 104-106 mph in your TL and see what happens. If we were in the same region I'd give you an example to chew on.

In any case, this is all bench racing. There are many different situations which can cause a race to go a way that's not expected.

Also, just to prove my point... look at this stock 335i dyno. This car is no slouch bottom end, midrange, or topend.

 

Again, it's merely potential or in other words a possibility but 1/4 mile trap is still no more than an indicator of what mph it is capable of at that given distance, no more no less.

Today's AT's tend to be almost as effective as their 6MT counterparts but only as far as 1/4 mile or less is concerned. There is a much clearer advantage in high speed situations in a 6MT that the 1/4 mile comparisons will not indicate, that's why you can't look at it from that perspective. They can trap the same, we know which will pull. I have seen AWD versions of the same car pull better traps than their RWD version but again we know who pulls ahead at some point. Things are not always so cut and dry.

I have, several times, that's why I commented on the topic in the first place. It's too bad we are not, I would return the favor.

That about sums up both our points and just what to attribute the difference in outcome to is the hard part.

 

While I understand the difference, I still don't get the logic. A different driver could have also been driving what is usually the slower car or in this case the TL. It could have yielded even better results the other way too.

 

I have to agree with winstrolvtec...the traps can help you judge other races but the 335s rwd advantages do help it to get those traps...and there is the power band which in this case is a nonissue as the 335i is very strong all around...

 

True enough regarding the reverse. But it does not negate the fact that the 335i Steptronic will still walk a stock TL 6MT...all other factors being somewhat even. The TL 6MT is a terrific car but we shouldn't make more of it than it really is, as it's only a setup for disappointment.

 

I don't think anybody really was. Even I cracked a few jokes about my own car being slow.

No biggy...just wanted to share my story.

 

Pay no mind Rockstar, some just don't get it. They reference the coupe or the manual or both not realizing that the sedan auto is different especially in that type of situation and want to use 1/4 mile stats to dictate a completely different type of race. Even the charts and stats contradict what is being said on that side of the discussion.

The 335 has a very strong powerband but know that the auto 335 sedan does not make the above kind of HP on a dyno, it is a lot closer to what a TLS 6MT or modded TL 6MT makes with exception to the BMW's torque which again is not fully utilized in this type of racing situation anyway.

Also keeping in mind that a 335 auto sedan weighs about 125 lbs more than a TL 6MT and almost 100 lbs more than TLS 6MT and that is it's base weight with no additional options which could easily make the car around 200 lbs heavier with only a moderate amount of options and packages. That would nearly negate any power advantage in that type of racing situation especially since the OP's TL is modded and would then favor the TL since it's an auto vs a manual and if the 335 had a passenger it's even easier to see why this race had that outcome. We all know 1/4 mile is mostly a product of traction, launch, and power but 80-120+ mph or something similar is mostly about hp to weight.

I agree that stock for stock and all factors being equal the 6MT TL would lose out to a 335, even a sedan auto, in any type of race but no one is suggesting otherwise and the TL in mention is not stock.

 

It most certainly is not. I probably won't be adding anything else as I like leaving most of the stuff the Honda engineers get paid a lot to do. Namely, make a reliable product. I just wanted a little more sound and some free, simple mods.

Thanks for the responses no matter what. Just didnt' want this to turn into a "look how cool my TL is" vs. "get a reality check" crowd thread, as that wasn't the intention.

J.

PS...I've been eye screwing a white w/red leather convertible 2001 M3 for a while on autotrader...$24K or so. Nice...but still a bit high in the buget when I factor in that it's almost a 9 year old car.

 

You guys mean the DCT, steptronic transmission sounds lame these days.

I'm not sure if the person driving was even trying to race (or didn't "want" to get a ticket/scared). Nonetheless, nice kill. The 335i's are ugly without the M3 conversion kit (coupe).

I've driven in M3/335i and the 335i with a simple tune can easily run in the 12's. V6 TT is beast. Also 335i puts down 286whp, thats how much you have at the crank

 

Steptronic and DCT transmissions are different...Steptronics are like our auto gearboxes, they allow us to choose the gears but they are automatics, but DCT is an automated manual(Sequential Manual Gearbox)...they shift fast and have less drivetrain loss...I think the E90 3 series has had manual, steptronic, and DCT transmissions. I know the M3 has a DCT transmission, but I'm not sure if the normal 3 got it.
If you want to know more about how they work:
http://auto.howstuffworks.com/dual-c...ansmission.htm

 

^^I like the Beemer in your avatar.

 

Nope. Launch has absolutely nothing to do with trap speed. Trap speed is an indication available HP. RWD has nothing to do with it.

And again, driver to driver, a car that traps 104-105mph in the 1/4 mile will EASILY outrun one that does 98-100mph, even when speeds exceed 80mph. Gearing can be a factor, but the 3 series is not undergeared. We're talking about the Germans for Christ's sake.

I seriously have no idea why winstrolvtec continues to believe and argue that the TL has this amazing topend pull. There's nothing amazing about it at all. It's a typical V6 that has peak power at around 6,500rpm and makes about 225whp. Now if it were a 6 winding out to 7,500rpms+ and making 280whp+, then it might be something worthy of a top end pull claim. The TL feels so strong in the mid and uppers rpms because it's lowend is so weak. It doesn't means it's topend acceleration is class leading. It's a good strong motor, but nothing amazing.

 

+1 this is the point I've been trying to make, but said better and all in 1 post.

About the amazing top end pull, I like to call that the "VTEC mentality"

 

I'm not saying anything about the TL's top end, but you cannot say that trap speeds are not affected by the launch...they are much less affected by it than the ETs but still...

 

I dunno... My best trap speeds are almost always on my slower ET runs with higher '60 foots. My fastest trap ever (112.6) was on a 1.998 '60, when I normally pull low 1.8 '60 foots.