The new TL: How is the sound system?
10-14-2003, 09:16 PM
#41
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Guy's...
Just now noticed your post..... but unfortunately I don't know exact location of the amp...but will find out tomorrow when I'm at work and post for you.
To swap the amp out wouldn't be a major job... but each channel has its own eq and crossover settings burned into the board...and you would lose that.
Adding an additional sub/amp shouldn't be a major deal...other then tapping off the signal going to the sub.
I would think this would be the easiest starting point....although this would obviously upset the balance of the system...but if it changes the system/car to where you can appreciate it even more...then it's a good direction.
We tried to make the system as balanced as possible, and Elliot S. spent a lot of time tuning...using DVD titles he had mixed himself for a reference.... but of course it's impossible to appeal to everyone’s taste....and for those who want to change the system to suit themselves....I can respect that.
Just now noticed your post..... but unfortunately I don't know exact location of the amp...but will find out tomorrow when I'm at work and post for you.
To swap the amp out wouldn't be a major job... but each channel has its own eq and crossover settings burned into the board...and you would lose that.
Adding an additional sub/amp shouldn't be a major deal...other then tapping off the signal going to the sub.
I would think this would be the easiest starting point....although this would obviously upset the balance of the system...but if it changes the system/car to where you can appreciate it even more...then it's a good direction.
We tried to make the system as balanced as possible, and Elliot S. spent a lot of time tuning...using DVD titles he had mixed himself for a reference.... but of course it's impossible to appeal to everyone’s taste....and for those who want to change the system to suit themselves....I can respect that.
10-14-2003, 09:51 PM
#42
CEO of IMHO
Hi N2SPKRS,
What you say reinforces my observation... that this system has been tweaked to maximize DVD-Audio performance. I'll tell you, I was smiling ear-to-ear when I heard DVD-A. It was really amazing... and very UN-car stereo like.
Quite impressive.
The problem is, we're not giving enough treble gain option to compensate for the lack of clarity in other formats: radio, CD, XM. As a result, I was unable to get out of the mushiness that plagues a lot of stock stereos for these sources.
In other words, it's like there are two stereos in the TL:
1. An amazingly accurate and impressive DVD-A system
2. A fairly standard "premium" stock car stereo
Because the bulk of listening is still going to be non DVD-A media, it would have been nice to have some extra tone control to compensate for the more used media types.
Jon
What you say reinforces my observation... that this system has been tweaked to maximize DVD-Audio performance. I'll tell you, I was smiling ear-to-ear when I heard DVD-A. It was really amazing... and very UN-car stereo like.
Quite impressive.
The problem is, we're not giving enough treble gain option to compensate for the lack of clarity in other formats: radio, CD, XM. As a result, I was unable to get out of the mushiness that plagues a lot of stock stereos for these sources.
In other words, it's like there are two stereos in the TL:
1. An amazingly accurate and impressive DVD-A system
2. A fairly standard "premium" stock car stereo
Because the bulk of listening is still going to be non DVD-A media, it would have been nice to have some extra tone control to compensate for the more used media types.
Jon
11-12-2003, 11:37 PM
#44
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The sound system is the best I've ever heard. I've heard many: MB, Range Rover, Jaguar, BMW. From the factory this 5.1 system has no peer.
I heard some "head bangers" complain it's not loud enough- these people are deaf! They're not interested in hearing the music, they're interested in the people on the street walking by to hear the music when they stop at a traffic light.
Best sound system on the planet!
I heard some "head bangers" complain it's not loud enough- these people are deaf! They're not interested in hearing the music, they're interested in the people on the street walking by to hear the music when they stop at a traffic light.
Best sound system on the planet!
11-13-2003, 09:30 AM
#45
Instructor
I can hear very crisp clear high-end frequencies when the DVD-audio is playing so it cannot be the speakers.
I wonder if what were are used to hearing is the shiny sound from CD's that is a result of lossy compression to shrink the sound to fit on a typical CD. Initially those high-ends sound good but are a result of other dynamic ranges being stripped due to space contraints on the recording media (CD's) and its format.
There is no loss of audio reproduction for DVD-audio and so now we hear all the sound dynamics including the high-ends, just not ONLY the high-ends.
Put in a CD, and due to the lossy sound, we want to hear the part that is there. High-end frequencies take up less space and are represented better than other frequencies, so we desire to hear the richness of the high-ends even more. The ELS system probably relies more on the actual recording media (DVD-audio) to provide the proper equalizations.
Elliot Scheiner had some say on the capabilities of this stero and, as a Producer/Engineer/Mixer, probably feels the mix is just right for high resolution and may have even limited the range to prevent unnecessary, extreme adjustments to HIS sound.
From the complaints I have read so far, the ELS stereo should have provided more equalization range for the user to enjoy current, predominate, and inferior CD quality sound.
I wonder if what were are used to hearing is the shiny sound from CD's that is a result of lossy compression to shrink the sound to fit on a typical CD. Initially those high-ends sound good but are a result of other dynamic ranges being stripped due to space contraints on the recording media (CD's) and its format.
There is no loss of audio reproduction for DVD-audio and so now we hear all the sound dynamics including the high-ends, just not ONLY the high-ends.
Put in a CD, and due to the lossy sound, we want to hear the part that is there. High-end frequencies take up less space and are represented better than other frequencies, so we desire to hear the richness of the high-ends even more. The ELS system probably relies more on the actual recording media (DVD-audio) to provide the proper equalizations.
Elliot Scheiner had some say on the capabilities of this stero and, as a Producer/Engineer/Mixer, probably feels the mix is just right for high resolution and may have even limited the range to prevent unnecessary, extreme adjustments to HIS sound.
From the complaints I have read so far, the ELS stereo should have provided more equalization range for the user to enjoy current, predominate, and inferior CD quality sound.
11-13-2003, 12:00 PM
#46
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I checked out the sound system in new TL few weeks ago. For a regular CD I did not think there was that much difference from my '02 TLS.
There was a big difference when listening to the DVD-A 5.1 but that is of course expected due to the level of separation offered by 6 discrete channels.
I did not get to spend much time listening to *my* CDs so could be mistaken.
There was a big difference when listening to the DVD-A 5.1 but that is of course expected due to the level of separation offered by 6 discrete channels.
I did not get to spend much time listening to *my* CDs so could be mistaken.
11-13-2003, 02:18 PM
#47
Originally posted by BigBluu
The dealers have them for test drives. Just be sure to ask for it if they don't mention anything about it.
The dealers have them for test drives. Just be sure to ask for it if they don't mention anything about it.
It has demo stuff and a few songs taken from 5.1 DVDA albums like Missy Elliott, Donald Fagen etc...
PLUS one of the tracks talks about EVERY feature of the car.
Very cool!
Mike
11-13-2003, 03:09 PM
#48
The sound is truly a revelation for car audio. The level of detail is outstanding. The frequency response is wider and flatter than any car audio I've heard also. The bass is tight and deep the highs are bright but not shrill. Some people complain about the cds FM or XM. There really isn't any problem its just that the darned stereo is so good the subtle differences in format and recording are revealed. CD recordings vary in quality a lot. On this stereo you can discern the differences. DVD audio is not necesarily better than CD the resolution differences that are touted are meaningless because they are 1000's of times above what any ear can differentiate, I'd be surprised if dolphins could tell the difference. I've heard some magnificent CD's (archive from deutsche gramaphone) and some very ****ty DVD A's. Even XM has some significant differences the 70's channel the music sounds flat and constrained (low signal to noise ratio) while in the 80's channel the music quality is excellent. What makes this stereo phenomenal is that for the very first time there is a car stereo where those subtle differences can be heard. Another home run for the TL. Eat your heart out Lexus. I'm not even going to mention the germans their car stereos have always been bottom feeders.
11-13-2003, 03:31 PM
#49
Racer
Yes I agree, The stereo is the best I have ever heard. I was playing a std cd last night and heard sounds in the track that I have never heard before ! I couldn't belive it ... The over all value of this cart is incredible. I had two of my friends ask me if the car was over 50K.. I am smilinnnnnnnnnnnnnn..:worship:
11-13-2003, 05:46 PM
#50
I just played a CD and heard all sorts of things I didn't hear before.
It is something you may hear in VERY high end audio equipment with headphones.
The sound system is totally excellet.
I am however surprised that the display doe snot bring up the Title and track titles and artists of the CDs playing.
My replacement head unit from Pioneer on my old car showed that information.. unless I am muissong something.
Mike
It is something you may hear in VERY high end audio equipment with headphones.
The sound system is totally excellet.
I am however surprised that the display doe snot bring up the Title and track titles and artists of the CDs playing.
My replacement head unit from Pioneer on my old car showed that information.. unless I am muissong something.
Mike
11-13-2003, 08:33 PM
#51
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You definetly hear things in a high definition stereo that you don't hear on cheaper stereos.
I played Led Zepellin's live The Song Remains the Same, on my MBQuarts. I could hear John Bonham Bass drum pedal squeeking ever so slightly as he played a solo.
THAT'S IMAGING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
-Chad
I played Led Zepellin's live The Song Remains the Same, on my MBQuarts. I could hear John Bonham Bass drum pedal squeeking ever so slightly as he played a solo.
THAT'S IMAGING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
-Chad
11-15-2003, 02:03 PM
#52
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vtechbrain: excellent points. When switching from 5.1 DVD-A to XM radio, XM begins to sound mushy and not clear. That's because of the immediate comparison. DVD-A is so much superior to sterero radio. Try switching from XM to FM. Now FM doesn't sound as good because of the static. I'm a talk radio guy; geez when I put on AM radio I can hardly stand the sound with all the static and the mono sound. I have some CDs that sound quite good when making an immediate comparison to a DVD-A; they definitely don't sound as good though. It's all a matter of degrees. A Ferrari Testerosa's sound system pales in comparison to this one. Now if only I could drive one around a bit and compare the handling capabilities. :-)
mikeradio: it brings up the artist/song on XM radio. A feature I enjoy a great deal since I don't know many songs/artists from the 90's and have forgotten many of the earlier years.
Is it a programing issue with the DVD-A and CD manufacturer or is it a function of the hardware to display the artist/song?
mikeradio: it brings up the artist/song on XM radio. A feature I enjoy a great deal since I don't know many songs/artists from the 90's and have forgotten many of the earlier years.
Is it a programing issue with the DVD-A and CD manufacturer or is it a function of the hardware to display the artist/song?
11-16-2003, 07:11 AM
#53
CEO of IMHO
This is incorrect. A CD does not use lossy compression. Neither does DVD-A. XM does have lossy compression, however.
CDs have limited space, so they can only fit so much information into the disc. This limited space provides less detailed reproduction as compared to DVD-A.
That said, I believe the head unit does a sub-par job on reproducing CDs... the amazingness of DVD-A should not relegate CDs to "fair" quality. CDs can -- and still -- should sound great. I believe it's possible that there was a marketing agenda to make DVD-A sound all that much superior to drive people to the format.
If this is the case, that's a horrible thing to do. If it's not the case, then I really have no idea what the problem is for CDs. They sound much more like a normal factory stereo, which is to say, they don't sound that great.
Jon
CDs have limited space, so they can only fit so much information into the disc. This limited space provides less detailed reproduction as compared to DVD-A.
That said, I believe the head unit does a sub-par job on reproducing CDs... the amazingness of DVD-A should not relegate CDs to "fair" quality. CDs can -- and still -- should sound great. I believe it's possible that there was a marketing agenda to make DVD-A sound all that much superior to drive people to the format.
If this is the case, that's a horrible thing to do. If it's not the case, then I really have no idea what the problem is for CDs. They sound much more like a normal factory stereo, which is to say, they don't sound that great.
Jon
Originally posted by Eiffel
I can hear very crisp clear high-end frequencies when the DVD-audio is playing so it cannot be the speakers.
I wonder if what were are used to hearing is the shiny sound from CD's that is a result of lossy compression to shrink the sound to fit on a typical CD. Initially those high-ends sound good but are a result of other dynamic ranges being stripped due to space contraints on the recording media (CD's) and its format.
There is no loss of audio reproduction for DVD-audio and so now we hear all the sound dynamics including the high-ends, just not ONLY the high-ends.
Put in a CD, and due to the lossy sound, we want to hear the part that is there. High-end frequencies take up less space and are represented better than other frequencies, so we desire to hear the richness of the high-ends even more. The ELS system probably relies more on the actual recording media (DVD-audio) to provide the proper equalizations.
Elliot Scheiner had some say on the capabilities of this stero and, as a Producer/Engineer/Mixer, probably feels the mix is just right for high resolution and may have even limited the range to prevent unnecessary, extreme adjustments to HIS sound.
From the complaints I have read so far, the ELS stereo should have provided more equalization range for the user to enjoy current, predominate, and inferior CD quality sound.
I can hear very crisp clear high-end frequencies when the DVD-audio is playing so it cannot be the speakers.
I wonder if what were are used to hearing is the shiny sound from CD's that is a result of lossy compression to shrink the sound to fit on a typical CD. Initially those high-ends sound good but are a result of other dynamic ranges being stripped due to space contraints on the recording media (CD's) and its format.
There is no loss of audio reproduction for DVD-audio and so now we hear all the sound dynamics including the high-ends, just not ONLY the high-ends.
Put in a CD, and due to the lossy sound, we want to hear the part that is there. High-end frequencies take up less space and are represented better than other frequencies, so we desire to hear the richness of the high-ends even more. The ELS system probably relies more on the actual recording media (DVD-audio) to provide the proper equalizations.
Elliot Scheiner had some say on the capabilities of this stero and, as a Producer/Engineer/Mixer, probably feels the mix is just right for high resolution and may have even limited the range to prevent unnecessary, extreme adjustments to HIS sound.
From the complaints I have read so far, the ELS stereo should have provided more equalization range for the user to enjoy current, predominate, and inferior CD quality sound.
11-16-2003, 05:47 PM
#55
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I got a demo of the audio system today. The demo disc has two versions of a Doobie Brothers song (Long Train Runnin' I think it's called) - one version is in normal CD stereo, the other is recorded in surround sound. Aside from the obvious surround effect (some instruments were clearly coming from the left rear and right rear speakers), I couldn't hear any difference at all in the sound quality - both sounded great to me. I guess I'm not much of an audiophile. 
04-18-2004, 05:25 PM
#56
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I agree, the highs are not crisp enough. Sorry
Unfortunately the highs and mid-to-high range notes are not crisp enough. However I believe this is due to poor equalization, not the speakers. I have tried a CD recorded with the mid-high notes pushed higher, and the speakers DO sound great. (It is unbelievable what you can do with a good equallizer plus decent speakers.) Unfortunately the tone control ranges do not allow for sufficent equalization with regular pre-recorded CD's. I get much better sound in this regard with my other car (a 96 MB with premium audio (yes, with Bose speakers...))
N2SPRKS (or anybody else that may know): Are the bass/treble tone control ranges hardwired in the radio or can we hope for a software/firmware upgrade in the future?
Thanks.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
N2SPRKS (or anybody else that may know): Are the bass/treble tone control ranges hardwired in the radio or can we hope for a software/firmware upgrade in the future?
Thanks.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally Posted by ctwickman
Yeah! I also noticed that about the Treble in the TL. I turned up the Treble to +6 and honestly couldn't hear any real crisp highs!
The mids and everything else sounded "good enough" which is a lot for me to say since I am big into spending money on car audio, but as for crisp, very present treble, I just couldn't hear it.
Anyone else notice this?
Hey, how hard would it be to simply replace the tweeters in this stereo. Do you think it might be trickier than it sounds, because doesn't this system use 2-ohm speakers? Are tweeters rated 2-ohm too or can you just pop in a good pair of MB Quart tweeters to improve the treble? I'm not sure how tweeters are "rated." Do tweeters even have an "ohm" rating?
The mids and everything else sounded "good enough" which is a lot for me to say since I am big into spending money on car audio, but as for crisp, very present treble, I just couldn't hear it.
Anyone else notice this?
Hey, how hard would it be to simply replace the tweeters in this stereo. Do you think it might be trickier than it sounds, because doesn't this system use 2-ohm speakers? Are tweeters rated 2-ohm too or can you just pop in a good pair of MB Quart tweeters to improve the treble? I'm not sure how tweeters are "rated." Do tweeters even have an "ohm" rating?
04-18-2004, 07:00 PM
#57
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I spend at least two hours in my car every day going to & from work, and I would have probably bought this car for the sound system along. Absolutely awesome and I'm buying new CDs and DVD-As like never before.
Although I love just about everything about this car, the sound system is stellar.
Although I love just about everything about this car, the sound system is stellar.
04-18-2004, 09:34 PM
#58
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Originally Posted by BigBluu
The dealers have them for test drives. Just be sure to ask for it if they don't mention anything about it.
04-18-2004, 10:01 PM
#59
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I am also a audiophile, and personally the stock system sucks for anything other than DVD-Audio. It has too much tinny sounds to it. Not enough mid range, or low range. I personally own a G35 Sedan, with the Bose, and it sound awesome with the perfect amount of clarity. Could be better in the highs, but it has plenty of highs for the normal person. The TL just isn't as good as people say. And it takes experience with audio systems to notice this.
Originally Posted by ctwickman
OK, I am a big audiophile. The idea of DVD-Audio is great, but more important to me is how an actual CD sounds, since that is what most recorded material is on.
I have done some research but can't find what type of material the speakers are made out of, or other details which might give me an idea of sound quality. So, to ask others who have heard the new TL's sound system, how is it? I am not asking how good the "DVD-Audio" or "Surround Sound" is, just asking how a regular CD sounds.
Any reviews out there from audiophiles and non-audiophiles alike? Every new car I spend a lot of money upgrading the speakers and amp with great results, since stock systems rarely sound very good IMO, and am hoping that I can save some money and won't have to do it with this new TL. Can anyone compare it to other stock systems, or other non-stock systems? Any comparison to the Mark Levinson systems in the Lexus?
Thanks guys... let's get a good thread to talk about the TL's sound system. There is a lot of hype, but let's see how it really sounds (punchy bass? clean highs? etc.).
I have done some research but can't find what type of material the speakers are made out of, or other details which might give me an idea of sound quality. So, to ask others who have heard the new TL's sound system, how is it? I am not asking how good the "DVD-Audio" or "Surround Sound" is, just asking how a regular CD sounds.
Any reviews out there from audiophiles and non-audiophiles alike? Every new car I spend a lot of money upgrading the speakers and amp with great results, since stock systems rarely sound very good IMO, and am hoping that I can save some money and won't have to do it with this new TL. Can anyone compare it to other stock systems, or other non-stock systems? Any comparison to the Mark Levinson systems in the Lexus?
Thanks guys... let's get a good thread to talk about the TL's sound system. There is a lot of hype, but let's see how it really sounds (punchy bass? clean highs? etc.).
04-18-2004, 10:59 PM
#60
Three Wheelin'
Originally Posted by SilverBulletCLS
I am also a audiophile, and personally the stock system sucks for anything other than DVD-Audio. It has too much tinny sounds to it. Not enough mid range, or low range. I personally own a G35 Sedan, with the Bose, and it sound awesome with the perfect amount of clarity. Could be better in the highs, but it has plenty of highs for the normal person. The TL just isn't as good as people say. And it takes experience with audio systems to notice this.
I had a Infiniti FX45 w/a Bose system. It was "good" for a Bose system but come on, it can't hold a candle to the Acura ELS system. (Bose systems usually suck eggs big time in my opinion). Pretty much every magazine from MT, C&D, R&T, Consumer Reports and even Popular Science raves about the ELS system. The only other factory stereo that can rival the ELS is Lexus' Mark Levinson.
04-19-2004, 07:19 AM
#61
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Originally Posted by PetesTL
I had a Infiniti FX45 w/a Bose system. It was "good" for a Bose system but come on, it can't hold a candle to the Acura ELS system. (Bose systems usually suck eggs big time in my opinion). Pretty much every magazine from MT, C&D, R&T, Consumer Reports and even Popular Science raves about the ELS system. The only other factory stereo that can rival the ELS is Lexus' Mark Levinson.
04-19-2004, 09:52 AM
#63
Well..
I would consider myself an audiophile of sorts and would say that if you play Linkin Parks reanimation DVD-A or some tracks on the demo disc it sounds amazing. Best I have heard in a stock system. However..regular CD's dont sound that amazing to me. They do sound very good...but not nearly as good as the DVD-A---I would consider the strereo an upgrade over the CLS I had but not "3000%" better..
I have played with the settings a lot...still sounds above average but not breathtaking. When I play a CD where instruments are not isolated it doesnt sound that great to me. Good...but not great.
I have played with the settings a lot...still sounds above average but not breathtaking. When I play a CD where instruments are not isolated it doesnt sound that great to me. Good...but not great.
04-19-2004, 12:22 PM
#65
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Originally Posted by BigBluu
The dealers have them for test drives. Just be sure to ask for it if they don't mention anything about it.
04-19-2004, 01:05 PM
#66
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Here's Edmunds' take on the market as a whole. The TL came in 6th which certainly isn't shabby considering the number of cars available.
http://www.edmunds.com/reviews/list/...7/article.html
Here's just the TL review:
http://www.edmunds.com/new/2004/acur...alpage=page002
Personally, it is the best stereo I've heard in a vehicle. I haven't heard many aftermarket setups (other than the puny ones I've put in my cars.) The stereo's what really made me say "I've got to have this car," because I'm so sick of changing out head units, speakers, etc. I just wanted an excellent stock system. Gomez's "In Our Gun" was unbelievably lush.
http://www.edmunds.com/reviews/list/...7/article.html
Here's just the TL review:
http://www.edmunds.com/new/2004/acur...alpage=page002
Personally, it is the best stereo I've heard in a vehicle. I haven't heard many aftermarket setups (other than the puny ones I've put in my cars.) The stereo's what really made me say "I've got to have this car," because I'm so sick of changing out head units, speakers, etc. I just wanted an excellent stock system. Gomez's "In Our Gun" was unbelievably lush.
04-19-2004, 01:14 PM
#67
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I must have a defective sound system. It looks like most of you guys here like the stock system. I don't like it at all. It's not clear, very muddy, not well balanced, no bass response. The Bose system in the Nissan Murano is pretty decent. I usually don't like Bose too much. I was hoping the stereo in the TL would be decent. I've had after market systems in my last two cars. I guess this is what I get for having high maintenance ears.
04-19-2004, 01:22 PM
#68
Three Wheelin'
Originally Posted by SilverBulletCLS
I am also a audiophile, and personally the stock system sucks for anything other than DVD-Audio. It has too much tinny sounds to it. Not enough mid range, or low range. I personally own a G35 Sedan, with the Bose, and it sound awesome with the perfect amount of clarity. Could be better in the highs, but it has plenty of highs for the normal person. The TL just isn't as good as people say. And it takes experience with audio systems to notice this.
The stock system may not be great, but it certainly doesn't "suck" by any means.
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