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Was just wondering what engines I can slap into my base 07, would the type-s 3.5 work with my 5AT transmission? Read on some places that its a direct bolt on. Just confirming on here.
A few months ago I bought a used 3.5 engine for my 2007 TL Type S with 53,000 miles for $1,900 from JDM Engine Depot, Belleville, NJ. It runs great with no issues at all.
A few months ago I bought a used 3.5 engine for my 2007 TL Type S with 53,000 miles for $1,900 from JDM Engine Depot, Belleville, NJ. It runs great with no issues at all.
Just curious, when looking at their website, I put a $1,999 07-08 Acura TL Type S 3.5L SOHC V6 VTEC Non VCM Engine JDM J35A in the 'cart', & all that comes up is sales tax, which totals out to $2,131.43.
Is the shipping cost built into the initial $1,999 price for the engine?
I see you reside in NJ, so you probably picked it up?
Yup, Paul the Acura whiz picked it up. I'm sure they can ship it to you, just call and get a shipping quote. Or if you have a pick up truck drive up from FL, it'll fit.
Yup, Paul the Acura whiz picked it up. I'm sure they can ship it to you, just call and get a shipping quote. Or if you have a pick up truck drive up from FL, it'll fit.
Thanks for the response.
Since Paul picked it up & you payed $1900 + tax, shipping would be an additional cost to the consumer.
I thought so; however, with these places it can get a little sketchy when it comes to details.
Was the 'mileage claim' the most appealing aspect for you in picking a place like this versus a salvage yard?
Obviously, their location being in NJ was convenient as well.
Well it was a combination of their reputation too. I was impressed to see hundreds of engines and transmissions. I didn't want to go to a typical salvage yard in fear of getting ripped off. They had several 3.5 engines for the TL to choose from. Paul was a huge help too. Quite honestly I was hesitant because I thought of a used engine not running right or something not working, AC, heat etc. Paul did an amazing job.
placing a 3.5 into an 07/08 Base TL would be easier than a 2004/5 TL because of some systems that exist on a 2007 doesnt exist on a 2004/5. They also modified the pinout on the ALDL between 04/05 to 07/08, but in your case, installing 2007/8 3.5 into a 2007 Base, may not have any changes in the ALDL. So I think you are better off than a 2004-06. But if I were you I would get some Service manuals for your base TL and see how much of the TypeS is included and compare and look for variances..
placing a 3.5 into an 07/08 Base TL would be easier than a 2004/5 TLbecause of some systems that exist on a 2007 doesnt exist on a 2004/5. So I think you are better off than a 2004-06.
I do not have odessy pinouts.. So I would not know how that car is wired out. But regarding the swap, I am only referring to electronics and not physical attributes. Helm books dont have physical stuff.. Also, Gullyguy did a 3.5 into a 3.2 TL. He got a error code of U0073, which is a FCAN failure or "off line". I think that is because of some pinout differences. How many locations have different pinouts, I do not know. And I will never know. haha
I do not have odessy pinouts.. So I would not know how that car is wired out. But regarding the swap, I am only referring to electronics and not physical attributes. Helm books dont have physical stuff.. Also, Gullyguy did a 3.5 into a 3.2 TL. He got a error code of U0073, which is a FCAN failure or "off line". I think that is because of some pinout differences. How many locations have different pinouts, I do not know. And I will never know. haha
The U0073 did not occur in teh CL's project & as far as I know, he used the existing factory J32A3 wire harnesses and ECU with the Odyssey J35A6.
He (Gullyguy) also replaced a lot of components, any that involve electrical connection could of either been damaged before he acquired them or damaged as a result of his 'swap' efforts, possibly causing his code.
Unfortunately, he never came back to explain / update his ultimate findings and instead 'gave up the ghost' in trying to rectify the U0073 dilemma with an eventual car sale, oh well.
well the last time I checked, I told Gullyguy the ALDL or Diagnostic link has different Pins for the FCAN.. This is comparing his car to the 07/08 TL. (I do not remember what year his car is) And my Helm book "mostly" covers 04 and 05 and it skips 06. But in cases it does show an 06. But I have no idea what he has. BUT ANYWAY.. I told him his Pinout is different. This was along time ago. Maybe then I knew what model his car was.
So, that is important.. Because lets say you enter 07 TL into the Hand held diag machine, and the machine is looking for the FCAN on Pin 3 and 4 (example only) then it will not find the FcAN there if you have an 04 or 05 and maybe 06 too... I dont know.. And the reverse problem could be that if you tell the hand held diag machine that you have an 04 or 05, it may connect and find the fcan, but then the ECM is different.. because they installed the 07/08 ecm... So in that case, will the hand held unit talk to the ecm? I dont know. Either way, I would think you need to have the 07/08 ECM installed as well as the proper wiring for it. I think Gullyguy said he was going to just get another harness. But I think there is a lot more than just the engine harness to replace IF IF the ALDL pinout is different. because then you would have to install a new ALDL harness..
The other option is to get 2 helms books and start comparing FCAN connections. but I would at least start with the ALDL. When I told that to Gullyguy, he had his own ideas on how to fix it. He wanted to hire a mechanic to troublehsoot it. I told him no mechanic will be able to troubleshoot it properly if you have wires reversed. Like mechanics are not retrofitters. They usually troubleshoot a system based on manufacturer specs and it assumes no one is moving wires around. I am not sure how someone could troubleshoot something if the wires are going to the wrong places. haha thats stupid. But in the case of "FCAN offline" it might be simply that the hand held unit is not finding the FCAN... Such as the pinout is different on the ALDL. I have already looked it up and I remember the FCAN pins being in different positions. Now if that is what is causing the "offline", I would say there is a strong possiblity that could be it.. And I told that to gully, but NO LISTEN.. haha So whatever,.. its your car, do what you want.
placing a 3.5 into an 07/08 Base TL would be easier than a 2004/5 TL because of some systems that exist on a 2007 doesnt exist on a 2004/5. They also modified the pinout on the ALDL between 04/05 to 07/08, but in your case, installing 2007/8 3.5 into a 2007 Base, may not have any changes in the ALDL. So I think you are better off than a 2004-06. But if I were you I would get some Service manuals for your base TL and see how much of the TypeS is included and compare and look for variances..
well after 3 months im back and my new 3.5 engine isnt firing fuel, the fuel injectors aren’t firing. Any help would be greatly appreciated. The engine i got was a 3.5A jdm from a RL
well after 3 months im back and my new 3.5 engine isnt firing fuel, the fuel injectors aren’t firing. Any help would be greatly appreciated. The engine i got was a 3.5A jdm from a RL
"not firing"... I am not sure what that literally means because the injector is only an Open/Close valve.. whihch gets pressure from the fuel pump... When they open, you can a spraying action.
So, what did you check? Are you saying each injector is not opening? How did you check it? I use have used a stethescope on a Camaro back in the day, but the engine was running, and only 1 was bad. It was a misfire.. but if you have all 6 not opening and closing, then obviously it wont start.
So, how did you check each injector since it was not running?
And is your fuel pump turning on?
Have you been able to connect a Code reader to the diagnostic link? If so, what codes do you have?
What harness are you using? Do you change any wire harnesses?
Which ECM are you using?
As you can see, I dont have all the info I need.. And I do not have an RL book... So, I may not be able to help. THose engines may be different.. or different bolt-ons. I dont know
"not firing"... I am not sure what that literally means because the injector is only an Open/Close valve.. whihch gets pressure from the fuel pump... When they open, you can a spraying action.
So, what did you check? Are you saying each injector is not opening? How did you check it? I use have used a stethescope on a Camaro back in the day, but the engine was running, and only 1 was bad. It was a misfire.. but if you have all 6 not opening and closing, then obviously it wont start.
So, how did you check each injector since it was not running?
And is your fuel pump turning on?
Have you been able to connect a Code reader to the diagnostic link? If so, what codes do you have?
What harness are you using? Do you change any wire harnesses?
Which ECM are you using?
I have fuel pumping in, the injectors just aren't going off. The ECM i am using is stock and the wiring harness is also stock. I didnt check each fuel inject but if there was fuel going in at least 1 cylinder i think id hear it going off. I read that I dont need to change the ECM or the Wiring harness. And the RL 3.5 is the same as the TL-s
"stock ECM" . 07/08 BASE TL?? Or TypeS?
You can hear the fuel pump turn on.... But I dont think you can hear Injectors do anything without a stethescope, and you would have to crank it while listening to it.
But at least you should be able to verify you are getting "power" to each injector when you turn the key on.
I mean if you are getting power to each injector, I would imagine that they should function properly because the odds of all of them being bad is unlikely.
Regarding POWER... if you look at this drawing... When comparing the Base TL to the TypeS... The 2 cars have the Power supply reversed.
And when you compare the TL-S part number to the RL part number.. they are not the same. I have no idea if this has any impact on PINout.
So currently i just got a jdm j35a into my base 07 tl. Everything has plugged in and see ms to be working except that when I crank it, it doesnt turn over. The fuel pump primes and pushes gas, the starter is new, new alternator, new everything. Even the timing is good, i checked because it was running fine with starter fluid. I think it might be the fuel injectors, i have my old 3.2 injectors that I could try but i dont know. Has anyone else had this problem?
"stock ECM" . 07/08 BASE TL?? Or TypeS?
You can hear the fuel pump turn on.... But I dont think you can hear Injectors do anything without a stethescope, and you would have to crank it while listening to it.
But at least you should be able to verify you are getting "power" to each injector when you turn the key on.
I mean if you are getting power to each injector, I would imagine that they should function properly because the odds of all of them being bad is unlikely.
Regarding POWER... if you look at this drawing... When comparing the Base TL to the TypeS... The 2 cars have the Power supply reversed.
And when you compare the TL-S part number to the RL part number.. they are not the same. I have no idea if this has any impact on PINout.
So, looking at some of the other fuel injector assemblies for the other years, the two you posted are similar enough but I am going to try using the 3.2 injectors since it should just fit right in I believe. That should theoretically solve my issue of power to the fuel rail. If that doesn't work then I am going to need an Acura expert to point me to the problem. I was confident on this project but then ran into issue like finding the right 3.5 engine and then finally getting it in. I was really hoping it was gonna be plug-and-play, but its never that way lol. And the ECM is the stock one from the Base model, I shouldn't have to change the ECM tho since they have the same compression, no? And by the way, thank you for the help so far, I have been on my phone until now and its hard to type stuff out on there. So again thanks. Talking
I'd say you should be safe to do so! Please document your journey and reply back here with an update! Good luck
Originally Posted by Pair of TLs
That's a shame. Well, go for it!
could I bug both of you for some input? You'll see I came back and replaced the motor just the fuel rail/injectors are giving me the issue of not starting. Thanks
in my opinion, compression will not be the issue, as much as "displacement". Normally on bigger engines, they get more fuel and more air. Airflow should not be a problem because I think there is not any difference between the 3.2 and 3.5. But the throttle body may be slightly bigger. But it may not cause much of an issue. The fuel injectors can stay open longer and let more fuel in, but will it be enough for the 3.5 at Full throttle? I dont know. But even at idle, I suspect that the 3.5 will need more Fuel and air to keep the system at the 14.7 stoicometric value. So, the BASE ECM will have to open those Injectors more because the 3.5L is slightly larger. Even then it may not be a show stopper. What I think is most liekly, is the that with the Base ECM and BASE injectors, you probably will not get the full benefit of the larger 3.5 engine. because of the ECM programming, and possibly the Injectors on the 3.5 MAY flow more.. But I do not know that for a fact. The ECM has a range inwhich it will work. And we're only talking about .3 liters more. SO, can the ECM compensate? mmm maybe at part throttle, but when it comes to full throttle, it may not work as well... And if it does, you still may not get the optimal horsepower... Howmuchever that is.. Which some people say in the 1/4mi run, it's not that much better in a 3.5 than a 3.2... IF Any! So who knows. Try it. So it may idle and run ok but maybe not Optimal , or peak at full throttle.
by the way.. If you ever change the ECM to the TypeS , then know that the way the Fuel Pump is activated (and regulated?), is different too. It may be that the TypeS has slightly higher pressure too. And it is connected to the ECM. So maybe the ECM control it somehow. And to make connections on the ECM, then that means the harness has to be altered from the BASE TL configuration. So, ya.. gets hairy.
From the 2007 HELM book.. (I have no idea if 2005 or 06 is the same - not right now anyway)
by the way.. If you ever change the ECM to the TypeS , then know that the way the Fuel Pump is activated (and regulated?), is different too. It may be that the TypeS has slightly higher pressure too. And it is connected to the ECM. So maybe the ECM control it somehow. And to make connections on the ECM, then that means the harness has to be altered from the BASE TL configuration. So, ya.. gets hairy.
From the 2007 HELM book.. (I have no idea if 2005 or 06 is the same - not right now anyway)
Yeah, I didn't take into consideration the fuel pump but at this point I just want the car running, so maybe if I switched the pins on the fuel rail it could work? and if I need to I could always go and buy bigger fuel injectors. Anything else that could be causing the injectors not to fire? I was thinking again of just either replacing the fuel rail assembly with the Base or trying to flip the pins or something before giving up.
I dont know what the fuel rail looks like.. Are you talking about reversing the pins on the INJECTORS? If so, then yes it will get power to the TypeS injectors. But you have RL injectors. And I do not have that pinout. But they are most likely the same as the TypeS. But I do not know for sure.
But if you want to try it with the Base TL injectors first, then you will not have to change any Pinouts. But the fuel supply may not be enough at full throttle for the 3.5. That's my guess. But hey, its only .3 liters as I said above. I would try it with the Base TL injectors first to see if it will run. Then if you want to make changes or improvements you can later. And using the Base ECM and the Base Injectors, you will not have to make any changes to your electronics on the fuel pump system
I dont know what the fuel rail looks like.. Are you talking about reversing the pins on the INJECTORS? If so, then yes it will get power to the TypeS injectors. But you have RL injectors. And I do not have that pinout. But they are most likely the same as the TypeS. But I do not know for sure.
But if you want to try it with the Base TL injectors first, then you will not have to change any Pinouts. But the fuel supply may not be enough at full throttle for the 3.5. That's my guess. But hey, its only .3 liters as I said above. I would try it with the Base TL injectors first to see if it will run. Then if you want to make changes or improvements you can later. And using the Base ECM and the Base Injectors, you will not have to make any changes to your electronics on the fuel pump system
Yeah, I'll try the base injectors first and if that doesn't work then try switching the pins. I'll be back here and let everyone know how it went if it works and if it doesn't lolWink
Good news! The engine runs. Replaced it with the old injectors from the 3.2 The bad news is that its now overheating! Im honestly just happy it’s running. Decided to take a little drive around and went to dinner with my parents when I pulled into the lot the car was starting to overheat, not sure if the thermostat is closed or what. Regarding the overheating i popped the hood and it was leaking coolant from what I think is the heater core. The car also threw misfires on all cylinders too but that’s probably because not enough fuel going into the cylinders themselves. Anyways the next thing is to find the cause of the overheating. The car was burning coolant so worst case I get to replace the head gasket :P anyways, thought I would update everyone here! Any thoughts and recommendations, let me know.
Could you send me the type s diagram for this, if you have it? it would be really helpful when I show it to my buddy.
Glad to hear it runs with the base TL injectors. I knew it would solve this specific issue.. but I didn't know about anything else.. because I have to look at each issue as it arises. And you have to ask about it specifically.
But yes, that picture above IS for both TypeS and Base. Did you read that * = TypeS.. That is why I said the Pins were reversed! because I read it.
So, how do you know it is burning coolant? Is there any steam or white smoke coming out the exhaust?? If yes, then overheating can cause a warped head it gets hot enough. So be careful about that.
But any air that gets into the system reduces the effeciency of the cooling system, and it can run hotter. But the question is, "where is air getting into the system"? I would not drive the car until you fix the overheating problem.
Always make sure you fill the radiator when the engine is overnight cold. If you fill it when the engine is warm, there will still be air in the system.
If the fans are coming on, then I would not suspect any electrical problems.
Otherwise, do as you said, verify the thermostat is flowing properly. And the only way to do that is to look in through the radiator cap while the engine begins to warm up. So yes, you can get air in the system that way.. So you need to figure out how and when you want to check it . Because for the system to run at 100%, you dont want air in the system. Also, Bubbles in the radiator indicate AIR in the system. So I would fill the reserviour AND the radiator when stone cold and then see if it begins to get too hot... Then if it does get too hot on the interior gauge, then see if the fans come on.... Actually I think fans come on sooner with the AC on. Either way, dont let the car get too hot.
(I dont hear much about bad heater cores in azine.. but I have not researched it either.. but a leaky heater core on other cars can cause air to get into the system - so can a bad head gasket, but like 1 mechanic told me, these engines are "solid". He meant they are tough to break.. So I would not automatically assume a bad head gasket. The engine would have to get really hot for that. But air in the system can do just that.. But again, fix the leaks first then add coolant when it is COLD.. then Retest it.. If you cannot find the leak, then you may get some GREEN DYE and a black light)
misfiring: I think the firing order and the cylinder numbers are the same for the 3.5 and the 3.2, but I have not verified.
A misfire is most likely a bad INJECTOR. And sometimes, I have seen where you can get a random misfire but the problem is only on 1 cylinder. So, What I would do, is get a stethscope, start the car, and listen for CLICKING on each Injector. Any injector that is not clicking , it is bad or the electrical connector is bad.. And no you cannot hear them click individually with the engine running.. Get a stethoscope. and touch it on each injector. I don't think Fuel pump can cause a misfire.. (Unless it misfires on heavy load and idles fine. But if it misfires at idle, I doubt it is a fuel pump problem.)
Originally Posted by DarkCrimson
Good news! The engine runs. Replaced it with the old injectors from the 3.2 The bad news is that its now overheating! Im honestly just happy it’s running. Decided to take a little drive around and went to dinner with my parents when I pulled into the lot the car was starting to overheat, not sure if the thermostat is closed or what. Regarding the overheating i popped the hood and it was leaking coolant from what I think is the heater core. The car also threw misfires on all cylinders too but that’s probably because not enough fuel going into the cylinders themselves. Anyways the next thing is to find the cause of the overheating. The car was burning coolant so worst case I get to replace the head gasket :P anyways, thought I would update everyone here! Any thoughts and recommendations, let me know.
Interesting. Apparently, low fuel flow can cause a random misfire TOO. But I know an Injector can do that too.. I wonder if a bad crank sensor can do that? Well, that starts getting into a rabbit hole which is highly speculative and not something I would pursue without checking the simple stuff first... like the injectors with a stethoscope..
more thoughts: So, I asked myself, can low fuel flow cause a misfire at IDLE? Before I thought no.. But it may be even possible at idle because the BASE TL ECM is programmed to vary the amount of fuel being delivered at Idle as well as full throttle. So it is variable. I thought it may not be affected at idle since there is less requirement. But this may be fine from the perspective of the fuel pumps ability to deliver fuel, BUT the real regulation of fuel into the cylinders is done at the injector by its "Duty Cycle". Meaning, the amount of time the injector is open vs. the amount of time it is closed. And the ECM controls that. And this is variable and based on parameters that was programmed into the ECM by the MFG, which is based on constant values from the 3.5 or 3.2 engine. IF you go an change the size of the cylinder or maybe even the cam profile (jury still out on that) you are change some parameters the ECM cannot see, and was set from the MFG. So anyway.. long story short, you may have to install the RL injectors.. But you will also have to figure out a way to change the Pinouts and maybe check the difference between the 3.5 fuel delivery system.. And see if the flow rates (fuel pressure) are the same from the fuel pump. That another ball of wax
Or Get a TypeS ECM and use the 3.5 injectors instaed of changing the pinouts
Fuel Pump part numbers are different when comparing the 2007 Base TL (17045-SEP-A01) to the 2007 TypeS (17045-SEP-A50) and the 2008 RL (17708-SJA-A02)
So based on that it is not a good idea to assume the flow rates are the same... but you never know without real specs. It could be a "form factor" difference when it comes to the RL... but I have no idea for sure.
As for Injectors, I like your idea about using high flow injectors because then you Might be able to continue to use the Base TL ECM. But it is sort of a gamble to assume it would fix the misfire issue. Nevertheless, here is a link discussing High flow Injectors : https://acurazine.com/forums/3g-tl-p...ectors-990173/
To repeat from above, if I was not clear.. To address the misfire, I would verify all Injectors are at least ticking first... Then go from there.
Fuel Pump part numbers are different when comparing the 2007 Base TL (17045-SEP-A01) to the 2007 TypeS (17045-SEP-A50) and the 2008 RL (17708-SJA-A02)
So based on that it is not a good idea to assume the flow rates are the same... but you never know without real specs. It could be a "form factor" difference when it comes to the RL... but I have no idea for sure.
As for Injectors, I like your idea about using high flow injectors because then you Might be able to continue to use the Base TL ECM. But it is sort of a gamble to assume it would fix the misfire issue. Nevertheless, here is a link discussing High flow Injectors : https://acurazine.com/forums/3g-tl-p...ectors-990173/
To repeat from above, if I was not clear.. To address the misfire, I would verify all Injectors are at least ticking first... Then go from there.
So I fixed the coolant thing, it was the heater control valve that got hit and had to replace that. So no more coolant issues. As for the injectors, I'm seeing if the car will 'self-tune' itself to stop the misfires. I haven't gotten another light for it yet so I think I'm good for now just driving to work. I have a friend with a stethoscope so I'll ask to borrow it to see if every injector is indeed ticking. To solve the issue of the flow rate, I believe the 07-08 base Tl has a 290cc injector whereas the 3.5 has a 300-310cc from what I was just reading. I'll do some more research to confirm the flow rates of the injectors.
02-24-2024, 12:46 AM
