brahtw8

HD!!!!!

Where did you go? Why did you come back?

I see we are still on the same old topics?

What are we going to do about it?

Can't we find a way for you to argue these points somewhere discrete, not in the middle of a thread about the RL?

And why did you start this RL thread anyway?

What can I do to help, seriously?

I don't want to waste the little bit of energy and discussion that this forum has. Please reconsider engaging the same tired crap with a new crop of forum users.

You know that it is not possible for you to have a rational discussion with the people on this board, and several others from what I understand.

You know this thread will be the same 12 pages from now if they take the bait.

ONELE you can prevent forest fires. . . :goldfish:

BTW, won't I be able to search and find a topic where you thought your Camaro was worth $9k? I swear you said that on this board.

And even at $12k after SIX years and 73 thousand miles, that is pretty steep depreciation, if you ask me as an NSX owner, with a car that is worth a little less than half what it cost ELEVEN years and 82 thousand miles later, but I guess that is what we can expect from a "REAL performance car" like the NSX, albeit one that they want "the BIG $$$" for. (As you so eloquently stated in post #8 to this thread.)

Right before this inciteful, hateful little gem:

"The TL doesn't deliver and it never will. The RL is the "TL" that TL owners on here have been dreaming about." (Also your post #8)

How can you honestly expect to get a rational debate when you spew that crap?

I would love an honest and direct answer to even some of my questions, just this one time, for me and all of my tireless efforts to bridge the gap between you and, well, the rest of humanity, it would appear.

I await your thoughtful response.

Norse396

brahtw8,


Illinois • May 12, 2004
1999 Chevrolet Camaro Z28 Coupe 2D
Engine: V8 5.7 Liter
Trans: 6 Speed Manual
Drive: Rear Wheel Drive
Mileage: 53,000

See Local Listings of This Car
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Equipment
Air Conditioning
Power Steering
Power Windows
Tilt Wheel
Cruise Control
AM/FM Stereo
Cassette
Dual Front Air Bags
ABS (4-Wheel)
Alloy Wheels

Consumer Rated Condition: Excellent
"Excellent" condition means that the vehicle looks great, is in excellent mechanical condition and needs no reconditioning. It should pass a smog inspection. The engine compartment should be clean, with no fluid leaks. The paint is glossy and the body and interior are free of any wear or visible defects. There is no rust. The tires are the proper size and match and are new or nearly new. A clean title history is assumed. This is an exceptional vehicle.

Private Party Value $9,320
Private Party value represents what you might expect to pay for a used car when purchasing from a private party. It may also represent the value you might expect to receive when selling your own used car to another private party.

This is off topic and my last response but feel it's pertinent to the OT crap 1le introduced. No matter what he colors his Camaro, it's still just a Camaro, the only way it's value is going is down and he knows it. He won't admit it and that's ok.

Flanagan

DISCLAIMER: I DIDN'T READ THROUGH 5 PAGES OF COPY/PASTE SO THIS IS IN RESPONSE TO THE CLAIM THAT THE TL CAN'T BE AWD FROM PAGE 1

harddrivin:

The new RL looks to be based on the Odyssey/MDX platform. I may be wrong, but with an AWD system that appears to be an evolution of the MDX system, I'm not so sure that I am wrong.

If this is true, that means that the RL is based on a FWD platform, the Odyssey. This platform had been adapted for AWD/4WD for the MDX. The RL appears to be an adaptation thereof. (Honda FWD->AWD platform count = 1)

The current generation Civic is based on a FWD platform. The current generation CRV is on the same platform. The Element, too. The platform was adapted to AWD/4WD for the CRV. The Element is an adaptation thereof. (Honda FWD->AWD platform count = 2)

The previous generation Civic was based on a FWD platform. The Integra was based on this platform. The previous generation CRV was based on this platform. The platform was adapted for 4WD for the CRV. Then the platform was adapted for 4WD for the Japanese-market Integra, using what they learned form the CRV and utilizing the same system in a lower-profile package. (Honda FWD->AWD platform count = 3)

OK, and here's the biggie:

The CURRENT GENERATION Accord in Japan (same as the TSX we all know and love) is based onthe global mid-size Honda platform, a FWD platform. The same platform as the TL. The same platform as the American Accord. THE JAPANESE/EURO ACCORD IS AVAILABLE WITH A 4WD OPTION IN JAPAN. RIGHT NOW. It doesn't use the same K24 engine, but it is still 4WD. This information was gathered from the Honda of Japan website, the Temple of VTEC, and assorted road test articles from Japan. This link has the most info. Scroll down to engine info for the goodies.

That makes four (4) times in the past where Honda took a FWD platform and made an AWD or 4WD vehicle from it. This may have been done with it's K-class cars as well, since many of those are AWD, but I don't know enough about them to make an argument (funny that).



My point is: Just because a platform exists as FWD doesn't mean it won't be AWD in the future. And just because you don't THINK a platform uses AWD or 4WD doesn't mean it really doesn't.

Sean

PS 0WN3D J/K. Maybe.

harddrivin1le

Define "platform."

Get under a new MDX....

Then get under a new TSX....

Then tell me that they're the same.

svtmike

It's up to Honda to define "platform" for their cars, and in this case they did. It's the "Global Midsize Platform". You own one (your Accord). I own two (my Odyssey and TL).

The fact that Honda can make many different types of vehicles from it does not diminish it as a "platform". In fact, that's a pretty darn flexible platform.

Mike

Flanagan

I never said they were. The TSX is based on the Honda Global Mid-Size Platform. So is the TL. The MDX is based on the Odyssey platform. I thought I clearly stated that. Oh well, always helps to emphasize points.

harddrivin1le

Compare the dimensions of the TSX and the MDX....

Are you out of your mind?

Flanagan

See above.

harddrivin1le

The TSX and the Accord/TL aren't the same car.

The TSX won't even accept a V6.

Flanagan

Yes, but they are based on the same platform.

This is taken from one of your beloved auto mags, Autoweek. the article is here.

Norse396

Good point, very flexible. It would be cool to see an AWD TL, is it me or does the new RL resemble the Gen2 TL more than a little?

Norse396

Is this true, I quoted that from the article flanagan linked to, I see TSX's all over the place, hard to believe they haven't sold many times the 15k mentioned.

svtmike

I do have to correct myself. The Ody is off of the Global Light Truck platform (shared with the Pilot and MDX).

Mike

Flanagan

They sold 18,923 in 2003. Source.

zeezz

flanagan: great post about the platform sharing that honda does worldwide. i learned something from this thread. amazing! thanks.

jrock65

TSX, Accord, TL, 2005 RL = Honda Global Midsize platform.

Altima, Maxima, Murano, Quest = Nissan FFL platform

350z, G35, G35 Coupe, FX35/45, 2006 M35/45 = Nissan FM platform

AWD vs. non-AWD usually has little to do with platform (i.e. Altima and Murano AWD using the same platform).
Size is not necessarily a limiting factor either (i.e. 350z and FX using the same platform).
I don't care how you define platform; the above is the generally accepted standard.

Once again, harddrivin talking out of his ass, trying to make it seem like his opinions and misguided assumptions are facts. And once again, WRONG.

jrock65

TSX, Accord, TL, 2005 RL = Honda Global Midsize platform

Pilot, MDX, Odyssey, upcoming SUT = Honda Global Light-Truck platform

Element, Civic, CRV = Honda Global Compact platform

Altima, Maxima, Murano, Quest = Nissan FFL platform

350z, G35, G35 Coupe, FX35/45, 2006 M35/45 = Nissan FM platform

AWD vs. non-AWD usually has little to do with platform (i.e. Altima and Murano AWD using the same platform).
Size is not necessarily a limiting factor either (i.e. 350z and FX using the same platform).
I don't care how you define platform; the above is the generally accepted standard.

Once again, harddrivin talking out of his ass, trying to make it seem like his opinions and misguided assumptions are facts. And once again, WRONG.

Swat Dude

When I saw this thread was 6 pages long, I just knew it had Harddrivin's stink all over it. I wonder who he has been pestering for the last couple of weeks.

Flanagan

Here is a great video explanation of the SH-AWD system that will be used on the RL: http://www.world.honda.com/HDTV/news/2004-4040401a/

Notice the test car they are using. US Accord/ JDM Inspire *cough* same chassis as the TL *cough*

harddrivin1le

And anyone who hs gotten under those vehicles knows that there are HUGE variations among common "platforms."

The TSX won't even accept a Honda V6....(It won't fit.)

There are also huge variations in wheelbase, track, ground clearance and even floorpan stampings.

So "common platform" doesn't mean "same undercarriage."

jrock65

No duh, of course each platform has variations; that's why it's a PLATFORM... something to base the variations on, to build different cars.

I said:

"The RL uses the same platform as the TL, which uses the same platform as the Accord."

To which harddrivin responded:

"It doesn't."


Did I even mention the word "undercarriage"? No.

You were flat wrong. Don't even try to play it off on "definitions" like you always try to do. The above are Honda designations.

It's okay. You're human. You're wrong sometimes.

harddrivin1le

I don't believe that the existing RL uses the same platform as the existing TL/Accord.

jrock65

Who the hell is talking about the current RL?

This thread, started by you, is talking about the upcoming RL, the 2005 RL.

Nice try...

dcarlinf1

What, no links or "facts" on this one?

Flanagan

Yes, the RL will be one hell of a car.

Yes, SH-AWD will fit in the Accord, TL, and TSX.

Yes, the next RL, current TL, current Accord, and current TSX share a platform. (See, I was wrong. I admit that. I admit that I was wrong. I was wrong. Amazing. Maybe this will catch on.)

No, they don't all have the same chassis or underbody.

No, this doesn't matter. It's still the same platform. What fits one will fit all. Hence the springs for a TSX fitting the TL. Minor modification may be needed, but nearly everything is cross-compatible. That's what makes it a platform.

No, the Law of Thermodynamics has nothing to do with this.

mhudson78660

Birthday:
May 12, 1987

If his profile is correct. I think this is is first car.

manuks

ok i drive a '99 TL which is plainer and slower than the TL-S and not as luxurious as the RL.. even so, i STILL get more complements on the ride and the comfort than i've heard friends get about their BMW 3's.. a 5, maybe different story.. but people seem to love the design and enjoy the ride better ( many road trips).. so let's stop making comparisons, because it's true, if you want to even really notice the handling differences you need to be taking f'ing turns in the f'ing mountains at like 60 mph, which doesn't freakin happen to real people!!! or at least it shouldn't!! otherwise, i've driven bimmers, drivin infinitis, and the TL stacks up quite adequately and for the better price.. also sees the shop less often!!.. and the new RL is very similar to the new TL, just on steroids, so I like it!! and i'm not old.. those of you that will own the new RL can show off the chicks you get to those that say it's an "old man's car".. it's not a friggin lincoln towncar for God's sake

Tecworld

The hardest thing to do is to get a person who isn't very smart to realize that fact.

SLVR04TL6PD

This thread is out of control.

I bought my TL because it has nice body lines, has nice features, and because it has a nice engine mated with a 6 speed transmission at a reasonable price.

NOW..

For anyone to try and compare the TL to the handling characteristics of a BMW M3 or a 1LE optioned Camaro, is being rediculous.

AND..

If that same person thinks that because a car is equipped with AWD that it will be the end all be all of an ultimate handling car, then again that person is being naive.

We are talking about luxury sedans here, and all I am reading is about how much better a RL is compared to a TL because it will have 30 more horsepower and be AWD !!??

Personally the RL looks like a Toyota Solara from the front with the CL's headlights and a KIA from the back. Overall the RL's body lines are very inconsistant. Almost as if the engineers tried to bring some of the old body style's characteristics into the new model.


Hardrivin1LE, why to to force your opinion on everyone here? I love my car and don't get offended at all by what you have to say. Most of the people here actually own a new TL and they love it too. :thefinger

and to try and get $12K for a camaro with 73K miles is a pipedream. I used to own an :piss2: IROC Z28 and it was a piece of crap. And if I'm not mistaken the only reason why you paid so little for your camaro brand new is because the 1LE deletes the A/C and the stereo. So all you got was a fast unreliable car with no a/c or music? Sounds like a car I would love to own.. :lol1:

-Chad

ps- try to stay on topic. Don't try and impress anyone with laws of physics and blah blah blah. That might impress some, but most here don't care about reading fluff.

1SICKLEX

Dude, if I could, I'd buy you a pitcher of some good draft....

Fionn

anyone know the price on the RL is going to be? If it's say.. 40K.. I would consider saving for it.. if it's 45k.. I'd say.. I'm sheet outta luck

rescueswimmer

I think the msrp is in the mid 40's closer to 50 I think. Sorry to burst your bubble. That is one sweet ride.

Fionn

Yea I know.. Very gorgeous

RhodeRunner

This thread is priceless! As for the new RL, I want one BADLY!