Never buying an Acura again
03-28-2011, 10:44 PM
#81
And here you go off topic. We have: 1.Parts manufacturing. 2.Bailouts. 3.Conspiracy theories. 4.Stuck throttles. 5.Resale and sales. I thought this was about reliability.
So you're saying your company sucked so bad you could not meet OEM specs on a product? Good thing you didn't make aftermarket parts. You make it sound like the Japanese invented a new material which no one else can make. Give me a break. You're completely blind to anything but Asian imports.
The Government did not falsely accuse Toyota of anything. People were getting killed from unintended acceleration and it was investigated. If people were not dying, there would be no problems. I still don't believe it was floor mats for a second. You're saying a CHP officer could not turn a car off with over a minute to think about it? He couldn't pull a floor mat back with over a minute to do it. Get real. I truly believe it's a software glitch and will show itself again and unfortunately will be blamed on floor mats even when several of the cars had no floor mats in them. You honestly think this was a conspiracy by the Big 3 to take sales away from Toyota?
GM had a terrible business model and the problem was around unions and unsustainable benefits, not the quality of their products.
You may want to look past your nose at the financial problems of your own brand.... Honda and Toyota also asked for help as did the Europeans. The whole industry is in the toilet. Again, blinded by brand loyalty. http://www.newser.com/story/52383/ho...bandwagon.html
http://www.gminsidenews.com/forums/f...vention-71111/
Let's look at this for what it is. You worked for a company, probably on the assembly line or packaging and heard a few rumors from the big wigs that fit in with your views.
So you're saying your company sucked so bad you could not meet OEM specs on a product? Good thing you didn't make aftermarket parts. You make it sound like the Japanese invented a new material which no one else can make. Give me a break. You're completely blind to anything but Asian imports.
The Government did not falsely accuse Toyota of anything. People were getting killed from unintended acceleration and it was investigated. If people were not dying, there would be no problems. I still don't believe it was floor mats for a second. You're saying a CHP officer could not turn a car off with over a minute to think about it? He couldn't pull a floor mat back with over a minute to do it. Get real. I truly believe it's a software glitch and will show itself again and unfortunately will be blamed on floor mats even when several of the cars had no floor mats in them. You honestly think this was a conspiracy by the Big 3 to take sales away from Toyota?
GM had a terrible business model and the problem was around unions and unsustainable benefits, not the quality of their products.
You may want to look past your nose at the financial problems of your own brand.... Honda and Toyota also asked for help as did the Europeans. The whole industry is in the toilet. Again, blinded by brand loyalty. http://www.newser.com/story/52383/ho...bandwagon.html
http://www.gminsidenews.com/forums/f...vention-71111/
Let's look at this for what it is. You worked for a company, probably on the assembly line or packaging and heard a few rumors from the big wigs that fit in with your views.
Actually you are wrong I worked as a Reserch and Product Development Technologist developing material to meet OEM requirements. Don't try making your self look good its not working. Let me ask you this what made you buy a TL. I for one buy a car for reliability number one then comes all the other stuff.
Last edited by friesm2000; 03-28-2011 at 10:46 PM.
03-28-2011, 11:06 PM
#82
Team Owner
Actually you are wrong I worked as a Reserch and Product Development Technologist developing material to meet OEM requirements. Don't try making your self look good its not working. Let me ask you this what made you buy a TL. I for one buy a car for reliability number one then comes all the other stuff.
I bought the TL because it was affordable, packed a ton of options for the price, kind of sporty, the looks both inside and out, and I knew reliability would be good. However, I was very skittish about the 5at since they're junk the way they come from the factory without a couple small upgrades.
As I've said, my GN went 220,000 miles on the original engine with nearly half of those miles making 500rwhp and getting beat on daily
Reliability is one of the factors but it depends on the car's intended purpose as to how important it is. If I did not already have a quick car, Acura would not have been on my list as Acura does not make anything quick. The TL offered nearly a complete package except for the FWD and lack of power so it made sense. That does not mean that Domestics suck or I didn't buy one based on reliability as you will twist it around to say.
Almost forgot, the '99 to '03 TL was the epitome of reliability lol. http://autos.msn.com/research/vip/Re...Acura&model=TL
Do I think it's a bad car? Nope, I'm not led by blind brand loyalty.
You keep talking as if there's this huge gap yet you have produced no evidence.
Nice sidestep of the Japanese taking government money too.
03-28-2011, 11:18 PM
#83
FYI IHC, for the 2g trannies, the 99's had 4 speed which were NOT nearly as bad as the 5 speeds (they still go out occasionally though, but normally well past the 100k mark though)
and then each year from 2000, the 5 speeds did get better, but still not great though, and on 2003's you can still expect them to go out at some point, maybe just not as early as the 2000's had
and then each year from 2000, the 5 speeds did get better, but still not great though, and on 2003's you can still expect them to go out at some point, maybe just not as early as the 2000's had
03-28-2011, 11:32 PM
#84
After his posts I'm surprised you have any expectations out of him.......
x 13242454
03-28-2011, 11:53 PM
#87
Your Friendly Canadian
Join Date: Dec 2007
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If your JDM Honda was manufactured in Ohio.
03-29-2011, 06:03 AM
#89
iWhine S/C 6MT TL
iTrader: (1)
Foreverhonda and SimonCL-S6 = Batman and Robin?
This thread is pretty much done with. Best luck to OP.
This thread is pretty much done with. Best luck to OP.
03-29-2011, 06:47 AM
#90
No offense foreverhonda (and I'm not taking sides), but he just gave you a solid argument with some proof and you just say you're a Product Development Technologist with no proof and "assuming" that the TL is bullet-proof.
I bought the TL because of its looks. So what does that mean?
All in all, we know most Japanese-made cars are reliable, but at the same time American-made cars aren't far behind. Maybe before, but not now.
I bought the TL because of its looks. So what does that mean?
All in all, we know most Japanese-made cars are reliable, but at the same time American-made cars aren't far behind. Maybe before, but not now.
03-29-2011, 08:19 AM
#91
Instructor
No offense foreverhonda (and I'm not taking sides), but he just gave you a solid argument with some proof and you just say you're a Product Development Technologist with no proof and "assuming" that the TL is bullet-proof.
I bought the TL because of its looks. So what does that mean?
All in all, we know most Japanese-made cars are reliable, but at the same time American-made cars aren't far behind. Maybe before, but not now.
I bought the TL because of its looks. So what does that mean?
All in all, we know most Japanese-made cars are reliable, but at the same time American-made cars aren't far behind. Maybe before, but not now.
Maybe part of the problem is people buying automatics and mashing them all the time racing if you want to track them or beat on them on a daily basis learn to drive stick and by a manual more fun and better control also more durable.
03-29-2011, 08:53 AM
#92
honestly now a days there is no such ting as the perfect car...everybody has their own story about the parents with the 89 corolla that's still running no repairs only oil changes and brakes ...................to the 2000 ford that has already blown an engine.................
The bottom line is it's a luck of the draw with cars ...i know someone with a brand new camry that the engine went already ........I owned a 98 ford escort that rode until about 200K and had to replace the tranny twice because of my actions but other than that just had to change the alternator at like 150k............... then i had a 06 TL i bought CPO and had a bunch of issues in the third year of ownership......
New,old ,CPO doesnt matter sometimes you get a good one sometimes you get a lemon......i know somebody with a 745 bought it CPO still runs he has no issues i know another friend bought a 3series CPO and 3 years later the engine was about to go not to mention the other 100 issues it stayed in the shop for ............
a car is a machine....parts ....not meant to last forever ..PERIOD ...
The bottom line is it's a luck of the draw with cars ...i know someone with a brand new camry that the engine went already ........I owned a 98 ford escort that rode until about 200K and had to replace the tranny twice because of my actions but other than that just had to change the alternator at like 150k............... then i had a 06 TL i bought CPO and had a bunch of issues in the third year of ownership......
New,old ,CPO doesnt matter sometimes you get a good one sometimes you get a lemon......i know somebody with a 745 bought it CPO still runs he has no issues i know another friend bought a 3series CPO and 3 years later the engine was about to go not to mention the other 100 issues it stayed in the shop for ............
a car is a machine....parts ....not meant to last forever ..PERIOD ...
03-29-2011, 09:07 AM
#93
I bought my TL-S roughly 50% because of appearance. It's a fast, sharp, but surprisingly subdued sedan. The other half was how Acura loads up these cars with awesome options as standard (although, If there was only one thing I could change, it would be a switch to AWD).
10 years ago, I think people felt the same. IHC bought his GN because of the potential and looks. Others bought the base TL for probably much the same. (Seriously? A reliability argument? You do realize how expensive the "reliable" parts on this freakin' car are right?)
Many disagree, but hey? Who cares? Sucks for the OP that his car was jacked up. Honestly, it sounds like the guy didn't get the truth and full research on the car and got a lemon (no offense directed at you OP). It happens.
Domestics have changed, regardless of your "history" or "technical job expertise title." They're miles ahead of where they used to be and they're starting to look good doing it too.
10 years ago, I think people felt the same. IHC bought his GN because of the potential and looks. Others bought the base TL for probably much the same. (Seriously? A reliability argument? You do realize how expensive the "reliable" parts on this freakin' car are right?)
Many disagree, but hey? Who cares? Sucks for the OP that his car was jacked up. Honestly, it sounds like the guy didn't get the truth and full research on the car and got a lemon (no offense directed at you OP). It happens.
Domestics have changed, regardless of your "history" or "technical job expertise title." They're miles ahead of where they used to be and they're starting to look good doing it too.
03-29-2011, 09:29 AM
#94
Team Owner
I never said the TL was bulletproof, all I said originally is if someone thinks Acura is bad and its one of the best in terms of reliability you should try a domestic or a VW. I personally never owned a domestic and don't think I will ever. But I have driven many company cars and rentals and they drive like crap... (handle like trucks) Also something else that people overlook is resale value if the were any good they would be worth something after there warranties ended. Like I said I have never owned one but my father bought an early 80's GM which engine blew right after warranty with only 42kms not miles. Then tranny blew and we gave it away. Also mother in-law owned 95 cavalier two engines two head gasket gone after only 140kms (not miles) so its hard to believe your GN went 220,000 on a original motor. Family is all imports now for 15 years no tranny or motor failures on any of our cars.
Maybe part of the problem is people buying automatics and mashing them all the time racing if you want to track them or beat on them on a daily basis learn to drive stick and by a manual more fun and better control also more durable.
Maybe part of the problem is people buying automatics and mashing them all the time racing if you want to track them or beat on them on a daily basis learn to drive stick and by a manual more fun and better control also more durable.
I'm not concerned with what you believe so no point in mentioning it again. There are lots of us out there pushing a lot of power on the stock drivetrain. The stock axle went over 220,000 miles while taking 1.4 sec 60' times with the left front tire a foot in the air. It gave no problems up until a year or so ago. However, this is not an Acura vs GN discussion, each one offers something unique just pointing out that Domestics are reliable even under harsh conditions.
The problems and the cure for the autos is well known and it's not abuse so I suggest you read up.
You said it best when you said you've never owned one so IMO you have no room to talk.
Test drive a CTS-V or a Vette and see if you think they handle like trucks. A crapalier is about the worst thing GM has made in the last few decades so even though you've posted no details (for all we know your parents could have overheated it) I won't dispute that it had issues. But comparing GM's lowest line to the high end imports is pretty gay but whatever helps you to win your argument. I am calling bs on two engines in less than 100 miles. That's some serious abuse.
03-29-2011, 09:58 AM
#95
Instructor
Now you're on: 1. Resale 2.Rentals 3.Auto vs manual. You're a riot lol.
I'm not concerned with what you believe so no point in mentioning it again. There are lots of us out there pushing a lot of power on the stock drivetrain. The stock axle went over 220,000 miles while taking 1.4 sec 60' times with the left front tire a foot in the air. It gave no problems up until a year or so ago. However, this is not an Acura vs GN discussion, each one offers something unique just pointing out that Domestics are reliable even under harsh conditions.
The problems and the cure for the autos is well known and it's not abuse so I suggest you read up.
You said it best when you said you've never owned one so IMO you have no room to talk.
Test drive a CTS-V or a Vette and see if you think they handle like trucks. A crapalier is about the worst thing GM has made in the last few decades so even though you've posted no details (for all we know your parents could have overheated it) I won't dispute that it had issues. But comparing GM's lowest line to the high end imports is pretty gay but whatever helps you to win your argument. I am calling bs on two engines in less than 100 miles. That's some serious abuse.
I'm not concerned with what you believe so no point in mentioning it again. There are lots of us out there pushing a lot of power on the stock drivetrain. The stock axle went over 220,000 miles while taking 1.4 sec 60' times with the left front tire a foot in the air. It gave no problems up until a year or so ago. However, this is not an Acura vs GN discussion, each one offers something unique just pointing out that Domestics are reliable even under harsh conditions.
The problems and the cure for the autos is well known and it's not abuse so I suggest you read up.
You said it best when you said you've never owned one so IMO you have no room to talk.
Test drive a CTS-V or a Vette and see if you think they handle like trucks. A crapalier is about the worst thing GM has made in the last few decades so even though you've posted no details (for all we know your parents could have overheated it) I won't dispute that it had issues. But comparing GM's lowest line to the high end imports is pretty gay but whatever helps you to win your argument. I am calling bs on two engines in less than 100 miles. That's some serious abuse.
03-29-2011, 11:07 AM
#96
Senior Moderator
iTrader: (1)
EDIT- this applies to everyone else. If you can't express your opinion on a topic without berating someone then stay out.
Last edited by ggesq; 03-29-2011 at 11:11 AM.
03-29-2011, 11:41 AM
#98
Team Owner
Your mentality is exactly what has killed GM/Ford/Chrysler over the years by building poor quality entry level cars Cavaliers, Neons, Focus etc... If you don't build a good entry car like a Corrola or Civic what makes you think you will stay with that brand and upgrade to a Camry or Accord or even Lexus or Acura. And thats why they can't compete.
That was honestly not meant as a personal attack. What I meant was if a person makes such broad generalizations, blanket statements, no facts, no details, shows complete closed mindedness to everything but one brand, does not write like a higher educated person and misspells their own job title, they're probably full of it. I was too lazy to type it all out so I did the cliffs notes version last night.
03-29-2011, 12:28 PM
#99
Yeah if you read it again, it wasn't a personal attack, but just a generalization of what he said.
Anyways, I meant that you made Japanese-made car sound bullet-proof. I'm not sure if you're entitled to comment on the quality of American-built cars if you've never owned one. What if someone rented a Japanese car once a year from a local rental car shop and each time he rented it, it broke down... 3 years in a row. Without owning a Japanese car ever... he thinks they blow. See where I'm going with this?
You can't obviously sum up a statement and talk bad about American-based cars without owning them. That's ignorant. Because if you don't realize, I could use the same argue that you're making to back up the domestics.
Anyways, I meant that you made Japanese-made car sound bullet-proof. I'm not sure if you're entitled to comment on the quality of American-built cars if you've never owned one. What if someone rented a Japanese car once a year from a local rental car shop and each time he rented it, it broke down... 3 years in a row. Without owning a Japanese car ever... he thinks they blow. See where I'm going with this?
You can't obviously sum up a statement and talk bad about American-based cars without owning them. That's ignorant. Because if you don't realize, I could use the same argue that you're making to back up the domestics.
03-29-2011, 01:09 PM
#100
Burning Brakes
Ford is in a great position right now, and the Focus was never a poor-quality car. What are you basing this claim on?
03-29-2011, 01:13 PM
#101
Team Owner
Yeah if you read it again, it wasn't a personal attack, but just a generalization of what he said.
Anyways, I meant that you made Japanese-made car sound bullet-proof. I'm not sure if you're entitled to comment on the quality of American-built cars if you've never owned one. What if someone rented a Japanese car once a year from a local rental car shop and each time he rented it, it broke down... 3 years in a row. Without owning a Japanese car ever... he thinks they blow. See where I'm going with this?
You can't obviously sum up a statement and talk bad about American-based cars without owning them. That's ignorant. Because if you don't realize, I could use the same argue that you're making to back up the domestics.
Anyways, I meant that you made Japanese-made car sound bullet-proof. I'm not sure if you're entitled to comment on the quality of American-built cars if you've never owned one. What if someone rented a Japanese car once a year from a local rental car shop and each time he rented it, it broke down... 3 years in a row. Without owning a Japanese car ever... he thinks they blow. See where I'm going with this?
You can't obviously sum up a statement and talk bad about American-based cars without owning them. That's ignorant. Because if you don't realize, I could use the same argue that you're making to back up the domestics.
03-29-2011, 01:18 PM
#102
Instructor
I don't have to own them, I worked supplying them material for 10 years. We couldn't meet the Japanese specs using the same material we supplied GM/Ford/Chrysler with and thats where I am coming from. So I do have personal experience more than any of you people commenting, I am sure.
03-29-2011, 01:23 PM
#103
Once again, an assumption. This is just proving your ignorance.
Helping and watching these cars be built from the ground up for over 15 years more experience than you "supplying parts".
I have family and friends that work for GM and have been working for them for over 30 years.
I have family and friends that work for Honda and Toyota that has been working for over 25 years. Know about the Honda NSX? Yup my family helped designed and built some of it in Japan.
And these "family and friends" aren't like distant relatives, these people I talk to everyday.
I personally worked at a Acura, BMW, and a multi-brand car (mostly American) dealership.
Please use some logic in responding instead of I worked supply them with material for 10 years when THAT STILL SHOWS NOTHING.
Helping and watching these cars be built from the ground up for over 15 years more experience than you "supplying parts".
I have family and friends that work for GM and have been working for them for over 30 years.
I have family and friends that work for Honda and Toyota that has been working for over 25 years. Know about the Honda NSX? Yup my family helped designed and built some of it in Japan.
And these "family and friends" aren't like distant relatives, these people I talk to everyday.
I personally worked at a Acura, BMW, and a multi-brand car (mostly American) dealership.
Please use some logic in responding instead of I worked supply them with material for 10 years when THAT STILL SHOWS NOTHING.
03-29-2011, 01:27 PM
#104
Team Owner
The first Ford Focus's where terrible they had plenty of recalls.
I don't have to own them, I worked supplying them material for 10 years. We couldn't meet the Japanese specs using the same material we supplied GM/Ford/Chrysler with and thats where I am coming from. So I do have personal experience more than any of you people commenting, I am sure.
I don't have to own them, I worked supplying them material for 10 years. We couldn't meet the Japanese specs using the same material we supplied GM/Ford/Chrysler with and thats where I am coming from. So I do have personal experience more than any of you people commenting, I am sure.
What are these specs and what is this mystery material you're talking about? What is this magical material that only the Japanse can make. These kind of vague statements and assumptions are exactly why I think you're lying about your position at this mystery company.
I hope you realize that I know I'm taking the bait. Even if what you say is true it is completely irrelevent to the conversation.
03-29-2011, 01:27 PM
#105
And if you're going to pop the Ford Focus recall then how about Toyota recalls that killed people?
How about the recalls Acura should make for the TL? Pre-mature transmission problems, dashboard cracking, and the things that Acura should take care of such as rattles. Or the 60% of AZ user's horrible experiences with dealerships.
I am not biased, I have a wonderful dealership here that helps me on everything. I don't have that much rattles, and I don't have a transmission problem nor is my dashboard cracking, but come on now.
It's like you think you're arguing to a brick wall.
How about the recalls Acura should make for the TL? Pre-mature transmission problems, dashboard cracking, and the things that Acura should take care of such as rattles. Or the 60% of AZ user's horrible experiences with dealerships.
I am not biased, I have a wonderful dealership here that helps me on everything. I don't have that much rattles, and I don't have a transmission problem nor is my dashboard cracking, but come on now.
It's like you think you're arguing to a brick wall.
03-29-2011, 01:37 PM
#107
Instructor
And if you're going to pop the Ford Focus recall then how about Toyota recalls that killed people?
How about the recalls Acura should make for the TL? Pre-mature transmission problems, dashboard cracking, and the things that Acura should take care of such as rattles. Or the 60% of AZ user's horrible experiences with dealerships.
I am not biased, I have a wonderful dealership here that helps me on everything. I don't have that much rattles, and I don't have a transmission problem nor is my dashboard cracking, but come on now.
It's like you think you're arguing to a brick wall.
How about the recalls Acura should make for the TL? Pre-mature transmission problems, dashboard cracking, and the things that Acura should take care of such as rattles. Or the 60% of AZ user's horrible experiences with dealerships.
I am not biased, I have a wonderful dealership here that helps me on everything. I don't have that much rattles, and I don't have a transmission problem nor is my dashboard cracking, but come on now.
It's like you think you're arguing to a brick wall.
03-29-2011, 01:38 PM
#108
Team Owner
I'm not sure how your question has anything to do with the topic though.
03-29-2011, 01:40 PM
#109
Team Owner
I've never argued that most Japanese brands are more reliable than most American brands. What I've argued is that there is not a huge gap in reliability.
03-29-2011, 01:46 PM
#110
Burning Brakes
03-29-2011, 01:49 PM
#111
I have no problem with Japanese cars being more reliable. The problem is "foreverhonda" thinking he knows what he's talking about with no valid proof or evidence.
Foreverhonda, once again, I never said the car was bulletproof. I said that because that is what you made it out to be.
And let me re-quote you and use it back
"I never said they are perfect (American) but definitely more reliable car company then the domestics period with no proof... If you guys can't get that through your skin, than I am done - im an idiot."
Foreverhonda, once again, I never said the car was bulletproof. I said that because that is what you made it out to be.
And let me re-quote you and use it back
"I never said they are perfect (American) but definitely more reliable car company then the domestics period with no proof... If you guys can't get that through your skin, than I am done - im an idiot."
03-29-2011, 01:51 PM
#112
Your highness, foreverhonda, have you ever met Justnspace?
I think you should be his side-kick and rename yourself to foreverhonderNspace. You need what he's smoking to bring you down our level.
And not to stereotype or seem like I'm a racist, but most people who own American cars know almost nothing about maintaining their cars. American cars are cheaper, has more incentives, and are fast. I've seen people with there fancy charger not change there oil for 20k miles.
It's almost like the people who think there V6 Mustang is fastest car on the street just because it says Mustang. :/
It's the ignorance of the owner, not the car itself.
I think you should be his side-kick and rename yourself to foreverhonderNspace. You need what he's smoking to bring you down our level.
And not to stereotype or seem like I'm a racist, but most people who own American cars know almost nothing about maintaining their cars. American cars are cheaper, has more incentives, and are fast. I've seen people with there fancy charger not change there oil for 20k miles.
It's almost like the people who think there V6 Mustang is fastest car on the street just because it says Mustang. :/
It's the ignorance of the owner, not the car itself.
Last edited by TheChamp531; 03-29-2011 at 01:54 PM.
03-29-2011, 01:53 PM
#113
Team Owner
And here you go again, I should copy and past my standard reply since I have to keep repeating myself. I've never argued that most Japanese cars are more reliable than most American cars but there is not this huge gap. They have become very close. Show me the facts instead of "Everyone in their right mind knows that Jap cars are better than american (its not secret)".
If we're talking "better" as you say and not "more reliable", what does Acura have that will compete with even the average American sports cars? What does it have that will compete with the CTS-V? The G8GT?
The TL is great in it's class but when you say "better" and leave it at that, you're opening an whole new world.
03-29-2011, 02:46 PM
#117
Instructor
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/motoring/...r-report.htmlI have been giving you proof not sure how much more you need. I don't want to get down to your level sorry!
03-29-2011, 02:51 PM
#119
Senior Moderator
iTrader: (1)
and we're done here.
OP-feel free to make a new thread when and if you feel it is necessary to address your current issues/trouble shooting.
OP-feel free to make a new thread when and if you feel it is necessary to address your current issues/trouble shooting.
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