I hate cars

Answer the question and you'll see the flaw in your statements. "Electronically controlled" can mean as little as a lockup torque converter which has been available in many cars since the '80s. Even my GN had this in '84 along with 3rd and 4th gear switches. However, these switches were used for engine functions and a couple sensors and TCC do not qualify it as an electronically controlled transmission.

When the Honda transmissions went electronic, specifically with pressure switches, reliability went to crap. I don't see why you constantly have to stretch the truth and leave things out to try and be right. How about simple information exchange?

rockstar143

iTrader: (6)

Maybe he just isn't as well versed?

I hate cars

In some ways cars are built cheaper and might not last as long but I think a lot of it is cramming so many features into cars, it increases the odds of something going wrong.

One place we're a lot better off today is engine life. 100,000 miles used to be considered a long time, you got your money's worth and it's time for a rebuild. With the advent of computer controls, specifically precise fuel metering via EFI and electronic timing control with the knock sensor for protection, engine life has literally tripled with very little mechanical change to engines. Tolerances have improved in some cases but clearances are roughly the same as they were in the '60s and the mechanicals haven't changed as much as most think.

Paint quality definitely suffered with the new EPA standards in the late '80s. I think leather quality in general was better years ago. I'm torn on the dash issue. Obviously there were no cracking issues when lots of cars used metal in the dash. I don't know if the TL's problem is a material issue or a design issue. If it's not attached to the car properly, simple heating and cooling can crack it or normal body flex can crack it. I almost lean more toward a design problem because climate doesn't seem to have a direct correlation but I'm just guessing.

I'm not THAT old but I remember the old roll up windows having problems, coming off their tracks or stripping the handle out so it just spins.

I think in some ways we use cheaper or more environmentally friendly materials that may not last as long but on the flip side I think the engineering is generally better today. Of course, there are examples old and new that won't fit into my theory.

Cars have gotten heavier with all the new "features" including crash safety which hurts reliability but with great engineering using better/exotic materials, weight seems to be slowly trending downward just a little.

The other thing is power is steadily rising and transmissions are getting more and more gears. The size of the package remains the same so power density is going way up. An 8 speed auto with 500hp in front of it is going to have a much harder time dissipating heat and retaining reliability than an old 3 or 4 speed with 100-170hp that was typical of the '80s.

MEKO

iTrader: (1)

IHC, can't pm you because your inbox is full

Would this problem be because of transmission fluid?
Delay between gear engagements.
But shifts are smooth.
Pretty long gap that even RPM goes up if I hold the gas pedal still

Trunk Monkey

iTrader: (1)

Lol I see my thread is coming back to life! Just sold it today for $7,500. Took out the all-weather floor mats and all my audio. So that's with all this stuff, no audio in it, still needing a sensor replaced and check engine light on due to this. Not bad I don't think. Not sure what I'll get now. The '13 accords look pretty nice. I'd love a warranty after this experience


Let me add these to the list:

4(b). Dash has cracked A TON now. Looks HORRIBLE
8. APP sensor failure
9. P0717/P0718 sensor failure
10. Navigation doesn't work due to crappy design where it scratches disk
11. Passenger side marker light failure (not just a damn bulb to replace either! stupid design)
And a few other things

Some of you all got lucky! I'm sure every car company has it's lemons and it's greats with no problems. Oh well, hopefully my next will treat me well

Scottwax

My '74 Z/28 only needed a starter in 2 years, my '99 Mazda 626 V6 needed $1500 in repairs the last 4 months I owned it. '90 Accord was bulletproof, had mostly minor issues with a 4AT '02 Maxima, my 6MT '02 Maxima blew out the a/c compressor 3 months after I bought it (used) but no other issues.

Since most owners with 3rd gen TLs (or like my 7th gen Accord) now here likely bought their cars used, you are sort of at the mercy of the previous owner and how well they maintained the car before you got it. Even original owners are now pushing 90-100k miles at least and cars with higher mileage have more issues.

The real problem is when you run into issues that are common with the vehicle that shouldn't be, like automatic transmissions, or you run into a crappy dealer who wants to nickel and dime you until you've had enough and they can sell you a new car.

chas22

I have owned Honda products for years and have 4 now. Stay away from the first year of a new body style and if you think you have to have a 4 cyl. stay away from the CVT transmission.

rockstar143

iTrader: (6)

Matt, well said...that's what i was getting at...tradeoffs between good and bad. Just the nature of the beast. There will always be examples, old and new, of cars that are trouble free during the life of ownership.

Trunk, glad to hear you're free of her, man...sounds like it was black cloud over your head. Also glad you're sticking with Honda!

Trunk Monkey

iTrader: (1)

I'm definitely thinking about it. The '13 accord is pretty nice looking. I'd like to throw some 20" Velgens on it also. The poster above has me a little worried about the 4cyl with the Auto CVT though. I don't want to run into tranny problems again. Honestly, the sport accord felt fine and the 6cyl didn't really feel that much more peppy to me. It's like 100 here though.. So that doesn't help.

rockstar143

iTrader: (6)

Have you thought of leaving the brand? Toyota? Nissan?

maddsiick

Trunk Monkey, I was in the same situation as you. Multiple things just going on my TL, been through two transmissions already, rattles everywhere, Navigation system working when it wants to. It just got to be a pain, I ended up trading mine in for the new Infiniti Q50S AWD. Picking it up tomorrow after work.

ladyt4u

Im just buying a 2005 Acura RL now i'm really scared after reading all this, now im thinking am i making a mistake? title is clean but not sure what to do and its got no cracks just very little wear on the middle console but other then that drive like a dream.

tay-fu300zxtt

Every car is goning to break..buy a luxury car expect luxury prices..
Seems the only people who are complaining are the ones who cant afford repairs.

My transmission is out ...Im paying for it.

Service dept.

LaCostaRacer

If you take this thread as the Gospel about the TL or any Acura product, you will be doing yourself a disservice. This thread will naturally attract the few people that actually have had problems with their cars and not the 1000's of people that have not had issues.

If you want to get a better take on the quality of an Acura model, I suggest checking out the Consumer Report's Auto Reliability data instead. That is a statistical study that I have participated in for 20+ years and has a lot more credibility than one thread in an owner's forum. If few people respond for a particular car model, CU won't report any data because it would not be statistically meaningful. This will happen with some slow-selling cars like the 2009-10 Acura RL as one example.

I just looked up the 2006 TL in my CU Buyer's Guide and it still has the best score for reliability. I then look at the 07-08 TL's and see some issues with electrical and audio system. Statistically, there are no (more) issues with the Tranny than other cars. I then go and see what's up with a 2006 G and see issues with brakes and paint/trim. The BMW 3 series has issues with electirical and body hardware as well as engine cooling. I then go and look at the Toyota Camry and the predicted reliability is very similar to the TL's for 2006 with the TL beating in Transmission minor and paint/trim mostly.

pohljm

^+1

Trunk Monkey

iTrader: (1)

+2 to that

I had a rough time with the car, but I purchased it used and sometimes that's just how it goes. I still don't think it's acceptable for the things that fall on Acura (dash cracking, navigation, etc), but things will happen to ANY car....especially now that there are literally TONS of electrical gadgets on cars.


On another note, I've got my false floor for the '04-'08 TL that I obviously can't use for any other vehicle. If anyone is in Oklahoma, is coming through here, etc....then I'd like it gone. Obviously I'd like to get a little something for it as it's about $30 worth of MDF, carpeted, fits like a glove, retains spare ability and access, etc. Bad thing is I haven't seen many OK people on this board

bbergero1181

Put 160k miles on my 04 tl. 40k miles with the tranny slipping and it always took care of me and was a solid solid car even when I beat on it a little. Never needed any suspension work or other costly repairs besides standard maintenance. For the first year of a re design which usually has people cautious to begin with it was pretty solid. And now in 63k miles into my 97 type S and it runs great and I get compliments on it alot and people still think its way newer than it is. The service department for acura warwick could be more friendly though

I hate cars

This is one of the only reasons I'm glad I bought new. I know how I've treated the car from day one with 8 miles on the odo. I got ripped off and paid $42k OTD but I've only had to replace the alternator which my now defective battery charger probably caused. A factory battery during the first year that never failed but was getting bad. It was covered by warranty but I chose to do it myself, no faith in the dealer. I've replaced a headlight but I keep them on all the time. Both the alternator and headlight were past 100k miles. My HFL started getting warm and the car was turning over slower after sitting at 120,000 miles. My factory head unit went out around 100k too.

It sounds like a lot but I've never been stranded and nothing major has ever happened and it still feels very solid. It starts up quickly and the oil pressure light goes out nearly instantly even after sitting for a few days. The engine is almost dead silent after the valve adjustment. I guess I am OCD though. I've replaced nearly everything that could wear on the interior including the steering wheel and carpet. The front end has been repainted from the heavy freeway use early on. It's nice knowing what has been done to the car and knowing there's nothing hidden or done half ass. With that said my next car will probably be a year or two old especially if I go with a higher end car like a CTS-V or one of the twin turbo V12 Mercedes which I think they quit making anyway.

Trunk Monkey

iTrader: (1)

CTS-V would be sick

jdm_94-07TypeS

iTrader: (10)

No worry you are gonna read here the bad experience of some people but you can't read the good experience of millions of people happy and satisfied with HONDA/ACURA product. Think about it.

jdm_94-07TypeS

iTrader: (10)

good advice!!

YeuEmMaiMai

never mind, not worth my effort to explain what electronically controlled means to you....since you obviously seem to know everything.... and 84 gm transmissions where not electronically controlled, they were vaccum operated....lol

MAS

iTrader: (3)

Never Again Will I Buy An Acura!...........more Acuras for the rest of us.








Disclaimer:
Sorry, didnt mean it....just had to take advantage of the opportunity to call someone a bastid. haha

Mr Marco

^Bold, ...I don't know how to turn it off!

Fatfrii

id rater stare at the cracks than a mat, or better yet the road.

LuckyGirl71

I have a 2004 TSX with just over 120k miles now.
I never had any issues (besides regular maint and power steering recall) until this year.
This year:
starter replaced
a wheel bearing replaced
transmission rebuilt (for $2390)
car fully repainted because of terrible white patches ($1362)
and today the AC compressor clutch fell off and I was quoted ($1129) for a new compressor kit, flush and recharge.

The passenger auto door lock doesn't work and the drivers side heated seat no longer works.

Serenity! I will pay for the AC and then pray that nothing else major goes wrong with the car for atleast one more year...

I hate cars

How did I miss this lol.

I rebuilt transmissions for a few years full time and I did side work for many years. I'm pretty sure I know what an electronically controlled transmission is.

So, "84 GM transmissions were vacuum operated"? That's weird, I don't know why my 200-4r from 1984 has a TV cable and no vacuum lines going to it. It's also got 3rd and 4th gear pressure switches that go to the ECU and a torque converter clutch along with a TCC solenoid triggered by the ECU. Tell me, how do you propose to do a vacuum modulated setup with decent drivability on a turbo car? That's just one, do you want me to name off the rest?

The 700-R4 used a TV cable, no vacuum. The TH400 was vacuum modulated but originated in the '50s and had advanced features that used electronics to function. Some came with a switch pitch converter that could change the stall speed of the converter. It was electronically actuated and this was in the '60s.

In the 90s the TH400 became the 4L80e and the 700 became the 4L60e. L for longitudal 4 for the number of gears and e for electronic. That's just the GM stuff, there's the rest of the domestics and foreign cars of the 80s that did not use vacuum but I think I've proved that there were plenty of non vacuum modulated transmissions in the '80s.

Back on topic.... I tried to hint at why our transmissions lost their reliability. Here it is illustrated for you. 1999 is generally considered the time that the Honda AT became a POS. Here is the transmission parts diagram for 1999. Notice all of the electronics including #14 the pressure switch. http://www.acuraoemparts.com/delray/...All&vinsrch=no


Here is 1998. Here's the secondary valve body. See any pressure switches? There's only a shift solenoid which usually doesn't affect reliability. http://www.acuraoemparts.com/delray/...All&vinsrch=no

1998 Main valve body. No electronics here. http://www.acuraoemparts.com/delray/...All&vinsrch=no

1998 Case. No electronics here: http://www.acuraoemparts.com/delray/...All&vinsrch=no

The pressure switches are one of the major reasons behind the reliability issues period. The lube issue was separate and had totally different symptoms, locking up the wheels but not clutch failures.

The fluid is the other problem but that's easy to cure.

Trunk Monkey

iTrader: (1)

Damn these '13 Accords are NICE for the money

klondike1024

I just finished reading through this whole thread. I found it interesting to see the different view points that have been expressed in this thread about Acura/Honda and other brands.

I have a long history of owning many different autos. My family has owned many Acuras. My current 2008 auto is a TL-S and my father is on his second 4th generation TL. My aunt also owns a 4th Gen TL. We have also owned two legends, an RL, two second generation TL's, and two third generation TL's. My girlfriend's father has an all wheel drive RSX. I also have a 1000+ horse power Toyota supra in the garage that I have raced and owned for 12 years. I am 41 years old and have been into auto racing since I was 15. My love of modifying cars was born out of building old 60's domestics.

My current 2008 Acura TL-S was provided to me as leased car through my employer. I liked the car so much that when the lease was over I purchased it outright for the residual value. It did not hurt that the price I paid was $6-7K below the blue book value at the time. My intent was to drive this car until I hit at least 120K miles. I am currently at 60K miles. It seems like all kinds of little things started going wrong in the last year. Some of these things my dealer covered under warranty or partially covered.

Just last week I sat in the passenger seat while my girl friend drove us to the store. I noticed the dash had the ominous cracks appear that I have seen mentioned numerous times on this forum and have also seen quite a few photos of. I was shocked to say the least that a 5 year old, well cared for car of this caliber with only 60K miles had a dash that was cracking. I have never had a dash crack in any car I have owned including cars that have very high mileage.

I just spoke to my service advisor and he is going to present a case to Acura and see if he can get some good will to get it covered. He said if I can get a copy of a work order from someone who has already had it covered in full it would help my case. If anyone who has had this repaired with the dealer/Acura covering it in full and would be willing to send me a copy of this paperwork I would greatly appreciate it.

Usually things like this bother the hell out of me but for some reason I am not letting this one bother me. If I can't get it fixed I will get a dash pad as many on here have done and enjoy driving on. I know others have had it much worse. Even with all of the things I have had go wrong I still think this is a great car that has served me well. I just hope that I can get another 5 years out of it with proper maintenance. This is the first Acura that has rattled my faith in the brand and I will definitely consider other options when I look for another car.

Thanks to everyone for listening and for posting your opinions regardless of where you stand.

Acura604

^^^^^^^^

yikes...and I thought owning an 08 S myself I was safe from these 'cracks'... guess not.

I always thought this was limited to 04-06 but i'm dead wrong it seems.

nttstt444

iTrader: (1)

^I thought the same thing for a long time. I think the 07/08s are still young enough to not see the issue as widespread yet. It sucks

kthai417

this is my 3rd honda car and I'd have to say i also have alot of issues..... lock actuator, transmission rebuilt at 143k, rattles, o-ring, power steering hose busted which lead to wearing out my ball joints.....replacing the ball joints this weekend and am going to look for a replacement.....

ez12a

those dash cracking issues seem to occur in hot and humid places.

my 04 still has no cracks *knock on wood*