reigai

We all love the TL, and there haven't been many negative reviews out there. But I just read this article (http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/rev...ra/1088017030/) and the writer puts down the 04 TL quite a bit. He says "Give the TL’s gas pedal a shove, feed the engine some revs, unleash a bit of torque and, well, it’s all a bit too much for the front tires...In fact, you can’t even give the TL a mild slap on the wrist without a dramatic loss of steering control."

His thoughts on the interior: "High end materials have Cinderella-ed the Accord’s cabin into a comfort zone as sharp as a Chanel suit— worn by Missy Elliott." I personally think the interior is beautiful...better than the BMW 3 and Infiniti.

Do you agree with his front wheel drive comments? I don't have the TL yet, but wondering, is the FWD that much of a steering control issue?

Teh Jatt

he's a anit-honda/acura guy so i say screw him and his review :whocares:

Teh Jatt

he's a anit-honda/acura guy so i say screw him and his review :whocares:

Hybrid

Just based on the website name itself, it looks like its purpose is to provide "dirt" on cars. It's not that hard to do if you take minor issues (torque steer) and make them sound dangerous.

Also, if there was any hint of the TL being dangerous or losing steering control, Consumer Reports would have been all over it, and would have proclaimed the TL as "not acceptable". But instead they proclaimed it as their top-rated sedan in its category, slightly beating out the BMW 3 series.

Although I have the auto. trans., I have yet to "lose steering control" or anything close to that.

SouthernBoy

Not only Consumer Reports gave it their highest rating ever for the catagory, but it won the best Performance Sedan award from MotorWeek.

And to answer your question about torque steer. No, it is not a problem, even with the VSA turned off. Granted there is torque steer when you suddenly hit the throttle in a turn or when the front tires have differing levels of traction. But that will happen with any FWD car that has a measure of power available.

Should you decide to purchase a TL, you'll be one happy buyer. In my opinion, the only thing that would make this car better (in it's current FWD configuration) is MORE power.. as in both horsepower and torque. But Acura (Honda?) has done a superb job of tuning the engine and ECU to deliver truly excellent throttle response, so you don't really feel like you have to get into it every time you drive it because normal driving elicits a very satisfying feel. And all of this from such a small engine to boot.

KT88

I think the review is spot on , er ... almost. Having driven RWD and AWD German cars for twenty years, the torque steer of the TL is annoying at best. I agree, give this car RWD or a good AWD system and it would be a world beater because it is so superior in so many ways. And, to a great extent it is, right now ... but really only to those that are not used to pushing high-performance sedans to their limits in the twisties. Nailing the throttle on this car coming out of the apex of a curve at 80 mph can be a heart stopping experience ... and I speak from experience.

Motoracer

FWD is a trade off that I'm definitely willing to make. My last car was a RWD Lexus GS300. It was awful in the winter. Sometimes couldn't make it up my steep driveway that posed no problem for my non-traction control Dodge Caravan. The Lexus had traction control and anti-skid, but they only worked to certain degree. I totalled the car when it aquaplaned on rainy evening - I was going in a straight line under the speed limit and VSC was on. I hit a deep spot with the left front tire and the car rotated instantly - no help from VSC.

The TL's handling is excellent for the real world (at least my 6-MT). There is minimal body roll, it is much more composed at 8/10 cornering than the Lexus, and the shock/spring tuning is a good compromise of firm without being jaring over rough pavement. The steering is a bit vague off-center, but easy to get used to. The torque steer is negligible if you pay attention and give it smooth throttle inputs. On a race track, particularly a bumpy one, I'd much rather dirve a RWD BMW or Infiniti. But on the street, at least in NE, I'm usually just cruising in traffic and occasionally running hard around exit ramps and such. If I planned on nailing the gas at the apex of 80 mph turns on the street, then I wouldn't have bought the TL. But I never really do that. I been racing motorcycles for 20 years and that puts street riding in perspective. You simply can't go really fast on the street - period. There are no corner marshalls, nobody is keeping the "track" clean, you can't see through most of the turns, and unlesss you're on your daily ride you have no reference points. So you're better off going to race track for speed (karts and bikes are realtively cheap), and get a car that works in the real world.

SpecialFX

What a jackass. It's obvious from the fact that this twit couldn't get the AT in "D" without difficulty. And this is the first time Iv'e heard of the torque steer issue being so bad with the AT.

Obviously he's a hater and his opinion is worth nothing.

subinf

The torque steer with the TL is hardly noticed. I did have an integra where i did an engine swap with a type r motor and that car had some torque steer problems. Either I became to used to compensating with the integra that I do not notice the acura, or it simply isnt an issue. This is only the second fwd car i have owned but I have no complains about the drive wheels.

rontatuaf

Hey KT, d'ya see the thread about the nearly box stockTL raced by a bunch of guys from Acura that won 1st in class and 3rd overall just a week or so ago. I'd post a link to the thread but I don't know how to do it. You'll find it if you want to.
Getting used to torque steer is no greater of an obstacle to fast driving than getting used to some of the quirks of rwd cars, I don't know why so many people make such a big deal about it.
Porsche, an icon of sport coupes and roadsters, until just recently were so twitchy that it practically took a professional driver to drive them fast. They'd swap ends on you in the blink of an eye but you'd always hear this really dangerous trait of theirs described as " a unique driving dynamic of the Porsche". Corvettes........ how many of use have found ourselves going backwards when exiting a fast corner in a Corvette. Try to bring in the power just a little too fast and there was nothing progressive about the way the tail hung out. One second you'd be fine and the next you'd be looking at where you just came from. The list goes on and on. No car has ever been built with perfect handling dynamics.
RWD corner exits are talked about as driving through the corner. I call it drifting, or a controlled skid. It's not the fastest way through a corner but it's great fun and it looks good on film. You can hardly hang the tail end out on a fwd car so you enter and exit the corner differently. Apparently the boys at Acura figured out how to do when they spanked all those rwd cars in the field.
Are fwd cars as "fun" to drive as rwd? No, because I like hanging the tail out as I power through the exit of a corner; I like doing donuts in a ice covered parking lot. But if I just want to drive fast it doesn't matter to me which end motivates the car.

Bitium

He needs to leave his personal feelings at home if he wants to write car reviews.

Yoda117

I didn't really see anything of true merit in this article... from personal experience, I've driven and raced RWD for a long time, and while the FWD of the TL does take a tad of getting used to, I've had mine for about 2 weeks now and it's been the most fun I've had so far in a sedan (yes, BMW included).

Like my daddy used to say... opinions are like a$$holes. Everyone has one, they all stink, and always full of crap.

KT88

Well, look ... we all have our opinions and experiences to draw on, mine are formed from years of RWD German cars, including a 1973 RS Carrera so I know all about oversteer and I prefer it to understeer anyday. I think any champion autoxer would agree, but it's true all of this has nothing to do with "daily driving." SAAB started the FWD craze (at least in the states) in the 70s and at least they got it right with equal length drive shafts and NO torque steer.

Sure, driving any car fast is an exercise in managing compromises of one sort of or the other, but ask any WRX, Evo, Elise, Nascar or F1 driver if they'd take FWD over what they are driving and I think we all know the answer.

tlram

That is so funny and so true.... your dad speaketh like a true Jedi!

TLVR

The review , IMHO,is highly exaggerated. Most of us never drive a car consistently at 9/10 in daily traffic. So take all this with a grain of salt. Pushed hard the FWD might understeer slightly. I have not found the torque steer to be objectionable, especially with the AT and the stability control activated normally. Other reviewers have had no negatives to report. But satisfy yourself and test drive the car!

Motoracer

Here's a report on the TL raced at Thunderhill. http://www.kron.com/Global/story.asp?S=2683780

Yoda117

Please see aforementioned post about opinions

Okay, Nascar and F1 are a tad different kind of driving style than most people will ever encounter (although some of the roads in and around Philadelphia are becoming so bad that I feel my racing skills have saved me on more than a few occasions). As for the others, like I said, for a SEDAN the TL works for me better than the BMW or other high performace sedans. If we're talking coupes, then my answer would be a tad different.

For a FWD car, the TL handles frighteningly well. I would never take the curves the same way that I would in my brother's Lexus or I35. Is it going to handle like a 350Z or Porshe in the curves? Nopes... but it wasn't designed to be the same kind of car either (and quite frankly, the only sedan derivative from those two vehicles, the Nissan Skyline / Infiniti G35, just doesn't handle as nicely... which is why I did not buy one)


oh... pardon the stink, that was just my opinion... and I already mentioned enough about opinions

rets

It's the article out of another RWD-mind author, but besides the part of FWD vs RWD, IMO, his review isn't too bad, and I do agree Honda/Acura seems to struggle to get better reputation and credit at this stage. Toyota's Lexus does perform better in this competition due to its Luxury touch and diversity chassis lineups.

And, our Drive by Wire Throttle System does react a little slowly.

gochan

everyone has their own opinions.

lakeman

Having owned a 1988 911 Carrera for 5 years, I agree with your first sentence. While the TL may not compete with the current Porsches and 350's, my 6MT handles much better and safer than my 911. I love to go to the mountains in SC and NC and drive the twisties. IMHO this TL is as good in most respects as the early 90's best sports cars. The newest ones have more power and better tires so I can't comment on them, but when a SEDAN can equal the sports cars of just a few years ago, it is a statement to how good the TL is.

dpilati

The TL could not hold a candle to the handling in my 90 300ZTT - an early 90s sports car.

Someone above complained about the Lexus and hydroplaning. This is something that has very little to do with FWD vs RWD. It has a lot to do with bad tires and not replacing tires when you should.

FWD does not launch as well due to weight xfer to the rear of the car. On ice, snow and rain (sometimes) the advantage goes to FWD since less weight is transfered before traction is exceeded. On dry - there is no comparison....

FWD leads (most importantly) to >60% of weight on the front. Acura is pretty good in this regard but you will never compare to the 50/50 of BMW for braking (when even more weight is transfered to the front of the car) and handling balance....

FWD is cheaper, saves weight and is good for where it snows a lot with hills if you don't want to change tires (95% of people). RWD with snow tires will beat FWD with all seasons any day of the week still. I used to drive a Mazda RX-7 in Buffalo and I was one of the best handling cars on the road with my Blizzaks.

I have tested a TL auto and it is reasonable but if you like to give a lot of gas on bumpy twisty roads at low speeds, you will absolutely know that it is not a BMW.

kosh2258

Of course I disagree. I bought the car, I like it and couldn't give a rats a$$ less about what that person has to say about it.

Which is precisely the point. It doesn't matter one whit to me if some reviewer doesn't like the car. It's my money, and I'll bloody well buy what I like.

Car reviews are no different than movie reviews. There have been movies that some reviewers hated but the public loved and blew the top off the ticket sales records, one of them was "Star Wars". Need I say any more?

Acuraluvr

iTrader: (2)

well, he only disses the fwd part ; otherwise, he likes the car AND IT RONDO RED!!!

midas69

It's just amazing that someone can drive a FWD car with over 250hp and be surprised that it has torque pull. You wanna feel torque pull, drive a Maxima. Compared to that the TL is a pussycat.

Pushing_Tin

I think the review is extremely fair. The FWD does blow, and IMO Acura has lost some sales to other makes because of it. The new RL is the best of both worlds.

dtpjigzer

EZZ

Nobody should be surprised at what the writer wrote. He took the only deficiency in the TL and harped on it to make the car look like crap. The simple truth is that all the mags (except Consumer Reports) say the TL is subpar compared to The G35 and BMW 3 series in handling. If you drove the three cars back to back to back, I'd be surprised if you didn't pick the G35 and BMW as the better handlers. The only mag that gives points for dashstrokers is consumer reports and of course the TL ranked very very well in their comparison tests (and of course the G35 got creamed )

EleVatE

I wouldn't say extremely fair... he ploys a lot of his own opinon of loving RWD and how cool F1 drivers are into it. But he isnt' a hater per say... he admits Honda makes excellent engines and some others that are quite excellent..

But I think you are right about one thing... I would guess that they have lost sales to it being FWD. I wouldn't look to buy it if it was RWD but would LOVE if it was AWD and hope they follow the rumors of making it that way.

FWD isn't bad though, and from the reviews of how the TL handles more than soothes my worries.

rontatuaf

I get to go searching for twisties maybe once a month. The rest of the time I'm plodding along city streets and interstates. I'm in Chicago alot so I see some snow and lots of rain and ice. For this combination of driving fwd is by far the most versatile.
For others who might do more aggressive backroad driving on a regular basis and never see slick conditions maybe rwd is the best way to go.
Acura chose to address the market by appealing to people that want the control of fwd in every day driving conditions and then tweaked it to put some "grin" into the driving experience.
I knew this when I picked the TL over BMW, Infinity and other rwd cars. Why buy the car and then worry about what you don't have? If you had rwd you'd probably complain about the traction when it's slippery.

J RIDE 81

IMHO, This guy has no idea what he is talking about. FWD isn't that bad and he makes it sound as if it is the worst thing in the world. FWD has it's pro's and con's but the con's definitely don't outweigh the pro's!

slavka

I looked over some other reviews and another article claims that MT is dangerous and requires too much attention.

hhmmm... so far I disagree with everything I've read from them

http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com//ed...ls/1101237418/

havokgroup

I'm happy with my purchase so I really don't care about what the aurthor thinks.

HondaOnly

Front wheel drive sucks.

How can you take review that starts with a statement like that seriously? It's too broad a statement. You have to qualify it. FWD may suck if you're on a race track, but I doubt you'll think it sucks when you're driving in a Minnesota snow storm.

Acura is still trying to convince the world that an Acura is more than a Honda with a slightly bigger engine, leather, wood and a few toys.

This part I definitely agree with. I would've bought my TL even if it had a Honda badge on it, because unlike all those people who buy BMW or Mercedes, I'm not so insecure that I need a label to feel good about myself. But if you want to be a serious player in the luxury market, then you have to recognize its shallow, snobbish nature. People shopping in that segment want name recognition. They won't buy a car if they're worried everyone else will call it a dressed-up Honda. I think Acura is moving in the right direction by having an all AWD lineup. But the exteriors need to be more eye catching. How can Acura convince people it's not just Honda when the RL looks like an Accord?

The trouble began the moment I slotted the test car’s five-speed auto box into Drive. Er, Neutral. Wow! Who would have thought that Honda - sorry, Acura - could come up with a shift gate that rivals BMW’s iDrive for counter-intuitive complexity?

Comparing it to BMW's iDrive is a stretch. That system is headache. Having Neutral come before Drive is something you won't notice after the second or third time driving a TL. I've never mistakenly put my TL into Neutral when I meant to put it into Drive.

Press-on drivers will need both sensitive hands and nerves of steel.

I have to admit, I find myself gripping the wheel tighter when I'm in sharp turns. With my previous FWD cars, I felt comfortable with one hand on the wheel. But the TL does have a lot more power and you can really feel it when you're going into the turn.

For value-driven buyers, the fully equipped Acura TL is a steal. It offers quality, reliability and every conceivable luxury for thousands less than anything else in its class, and much above. For the rest of us, the TL is maddeningly close to greatness.

This sums up my feelings exactly. The TL is close to greatness. But I disagree with the reviewer who thinks the TL should be RWD. If anything, it should be AWD. Don't aim to be like BMW. Aim to be better. When the Beemers are stuck in the snow, the TLs will be flying right by. The TL is already selling like hotcakes, but imagine how much better it would sell if it had AWD. I don't think this review is all that bad. Except for the obvious bias against FWD, I think it's pretty fair.

Flippie

Its one man's opinion. We all know that opinions are like assh***s. Everyone has one.

ClnOB

Agree

lakeman

IMHO -The 3rd Gen TL is such a good car that it causes "car experts" to overly complain about its FWD, because it is "not possible' for a FWD to be as good as it is.
Yes, FWD with 270 HP can be a handful, but one quickly learns how to handle the power.
My 2 cents - As far a handling goes the TL is an incredible car, especially the 6MT with performance tires. Some will say that numbers don't matter and it is all about "feel", and some with say that a slalom favors FWD cars. However, slalom testing by a well known car authority (Edmunds) shows the TL not only to be faster than the 330, but faster than the vaulted M3.

Edmunds Test 2001 M3 - Slalom - 66.6 mph
Handling Comments: “This M3 Coupe is one of the best balanced, best handling vehicles we've ever tested. Only a hand-full of vehicles have tested at, or better than, the level at which this vehicle performs.”

Edmunds Test 2004 Acura TL (6MT HPT) – Slalom – 67.5 mph
Handling Comments: “Technically, it may not be as "fun" as a BMW 3 Series, but it obviously goes through the slalom just as rapidly.”

HondaOnly

You don't think it requires more attention? I'm sorry, but I have to disagree with you on that. A MT may be more fun, but it does require a certain amount of skill and concentration. There are a lot of drivers these days who have short attention spans and get too easily distracted. They're too worried about adjusting the climate control or stereo system. These days they might be talking on the cell phone or playing with their Nav system. I don't think MT is dangerous. I think what's dangerous is that there are people out there who have MTs that probably shouldn't. I've driven with people who can't adjust the stereo without taking their eyes off the road and they let the car drift over to the next lane while they're busy trying to find their favorite station. I'm not badmouthing MT. I've never driven one, but even I can tell that's more fun than an automatic. But let's be honest. Having to coordinate more things at once can distract you from the road. Maybe they need two kinds of driver's licenses. One for AT and another for MT.

JDM5lugHatch

I am an EX-Subaru owner. I had a 00 RS and a '02 350whp Stage 4+ WRX. The answer is YES I would take a FWD TL over an AWD Subaru for so many reasons. AWD is nice and all but it's not all that. You can make this car (TL) handle and perform just as well as a WRX with the proper suspension set-up. AWD can get you in just as much trouble as all the others.

Lots of factors come into play also and that mainly relates to tires. Stock WRX with RE92's horrible tires for dry performance driving as they have weak sidewalls etc.. Stock STi might as well park it in the garage when winter hits with those RE070's ( think thats what they are) because you will only be finding yourself in a ditch. Same goes for EVO drivers. The tires on the STI and EVo are also not that great for wet roads. If it's raining heavily there is a very high risk of hydroplaning.

I personally don't think the torque steer is as bad as people make it to be.

slavka

In all honesty, shifting gears on MT becomes sort of "automatic" .. When I was first learning how to drive stick, it did take more concentration remembering which gear I was in, and listening to the engine to see if I was straining it too much and needed a downshift, or if it was running on too high of RPMs and needed an upshift. But with time, and familiarity of the vehicle, gear changes become more fluent and I don't even think about it anymore.

I do agree with your overall statement, though. There are lots of different toys and buttons in our cars nowdays that do distruct the driver, and adding MT to the mix is just another thing that needs to be taken care of when driving.

But looking back at the article (about the MT), writer suggests that the semi-auto is "safer" since it requires no colloberation with clutch. To me, clutch is irrelevant at this point.. Shifting gears in the semi-auto tranny may be just as distracting as in MT.

As pretty much everyone in this thread stated.. its all about personal opinions and preferences

Best regards

HondaOnly

I think the author's point is that if one transmission is more dangerous than the other, it's only because of the nature of people, not because of the transmissions themselves. The bottom line is that the average driver doesn't concentrate on driving.