Acuraboy7

I took my TL-S in for service last week and the dealer gave me a TL loaner, after driving a TL-S for over 6 months now, I can't help but say driving a base TL doesn't feel much slower in power, the drive feel is totally not the same, but when you hit the gas off the line its about the same to me. Anyone else feel this way that may have driven a base TL after driving a TL-S

tripflex

I can feel the difference and i have the 5at. Especially with how the TLS handles. From the line it feels the same to me, but the 30-60 mark i can absolutely feel the difference. IE, putting my foot on the floor at 40 the pickup is a lot better

IMO

ChicagoBurbs

I'm sorry but I disagree, there is a HUGE difference IMO...but I drive a 6MT TLS. I stomped on a loaner 5AT Base, and was shocked at the difference in accelleration and handling...couldn't wait to get back in my car.

theklassic

There's a difference but you really can't compare AT to MT. My neighbors 05 MT and my 05 AT could also be considered night and day.

Anyhoo, I have an 05 AT TL A-Spec'd out and for kicks I test drove the AT TL-S. Drove it like I stole it and took it around some turns like I normally would. Handling is the same in my opinion, but the acceleration is definitely noticible.

The S has that extra punch you don't get in the base. --- But drasitcally different? I'd have to humbly disagree. After I got back in my regular old 05 I didn't feel I was missing much.

Anyone else feel the same?

7Davie7

^^ couldn't agree more. I have driven 2 different TL-S's at the dealer...There is def a difference between the 2, but THAT much?...worth the extra $? IMO not really. It's a nicer car and sportier no doubt, but I just simply couldn't justify the extra $ over the base Tl, just dont think its worth it at all.

tripflex

Just makes me even more upset i didn't wait to get the 6MT. DAMNIT! Oh well, when the new models come out...i will wait. First time i've owned an AT car and the only one i really wanted it on!

theklassic

Yeah, but don't get me wrong - had the S been out at the time I was buying my 05 it would've been mine mine mine. The look of those quads are amazing.

Out of the box, it's one of the nicest sport sedans out there.

bf17738

I had a 2004 TL AT that i traded up into 07 TL-S AT... honestly, i dont notice too much of an acceleration difference while driving. i thought both cars were REALLY fast and instantly responsive

i DO see a big difference in ride and handling tho. the new TL-S drives like it's on rails. i have pushed both cars to the limit and thought that i was impressed with the 04's handling.... the S handles even better. i'm surprised every day at some of the things that this FWD car is capable of.

however... as far as acceleration goes.... i unofficially clocked the 04 TL with a stopwatch VSA off and got around 6.0 sec ( K&N airfilter and much better tires only ) and i have clocked the new TL-S at about 5.5 sec (stock but with the A-Spec wheels and same tires as the 04)

the tires are Ultra High Perf All-Seasons the Avon tyres. they are great. blow the Turanzas away and i feel these are a lot better than the Michelins that came on the S.

fiveoh-tl

All I know is I test drove both the '07 TL and TL-S (both 5AT) and there was a huge difference in power.......and an even bigger difference in handling. P.S. I went w/ the TL-S.

BEAR-AvHistory

Has anyone ever seen certified numbers for the two. 300CC or 18CI in a 3600lb+ car does not seem like very much of a gain.

Regarding the hand held 5.5 posted above - Car & Driver got 5.7 for the base car. If both numbers are close to being valid it would take some considerable sense of feel, very very experienced drag racer, to notice the difference in a seat of the pants run.

bf17738

Regarding the hand held 5.5 posted above - Car & Driver got 5.7 for the base car. If both numbers are close to being valid it would take some considerable sense of feel, very very experienced drag racer, to notice the difference in a seat of the pants run.


huh?

BEAR-AvHistory

What it means is the average guy could never feel the difference in 2 tenths of a second in a 0-60 run.

BEAR-AvHistory

All things being equal the advertised horsepower spread between the base & the "S" could be worth at the max 4 tenths of a second over the quarter mile using 3650 as a launch weight.

BTW I understand that Road & Track did a car comparison with the TLS, G35 & a IS350. maybe someone can publish those numbers.

Acuraboy7

I agree it feels and is stronger in passing punch, but off the line from 0-60 doesn't feel all that different

theklassic

Yeah, I was a little disappointed that with the increased displacement Acura couldn't give us a little more oomph! I'm hoping they're keeping things tame for something way more beast.

For the future, they have the G37 as reference to keep things interesting.

ChicagoBurbs

Of course I understand the huge difference I feel is in large part due to the 6MT. But there are a lot of other reasons I opted for the TLS over the base...Hey just price a comparable suspension, exhaust, and brake package as upgrades to the base, and not counting the upgraded seats and other amenities...it's a steal for the extra cash IMO. Then toss in the extra HP as a bonus.

But we all place a value on each option we elect to choose or reject. To me it was a no-brainer, and the differences between the base and the TLS are more than significant enough to warrant the additional $$$.

I for one feel that there are justifications for both cases. But in answer to the original post question, I still say hell yes, especially over 40 MPH.

S PAW 1

R&T tested an '07 6MT, and measured 14.3 @99.9 mph in 1/4 mile.
That's pretty quick. I do admit though that my '07 5AT does not feel as strong as my '05 6MT. There are substantial suspension refinements though, that may not allow you to perceive the power in the "seat of your pants".

Nukeman

I must agree with some of the people above. I just traded in an '04 TL 6MT for an '08 TL-S 6MT and although I do feel that the 08 is more refined I don't feel a big difference in power.

BEAR-AvHistory

C&D got a standing 1/4-mile of 14.4 sec @ 99 mph for the base TL 6spd. Agree the TL-S has a few more nice things but not a noticable performance difference.

BEAR-AvHistory

BTW @ 100mph a one tenth of a second spread is worth about 14 feet. So the TL would have its front bumper off the TL-S's rear quater panel all things being equal.

That being said; the times are so close a TL driver with just a very slightly better reaction time on the tree would win over the TL-S. Really can't see the big performance boost feel based on the numbers.

ngg19

nukeman:
besides the bigger motor and noise cancellation what is the difference between TL-S MT and 04 TL . I have an 04 MT, and am considering trading her in.

Silver_Surfer

^

the acura website has all that info for you

Black_6spd

This is good info. I thought the two would be drastically different as well, but I always value the opinion of an owner over a guy test driving both like in my case.

For those who own one and had the loaner of the other, what gas mileage difference did you experience?

triton3k

I notice a difference in how it pulls and roars. Definately not the same.

joerockt

My TL-S dosent feel anything like my TSX

Black_05_TL_6SP

Being that I drive the 6MT, it would be hard for me to base a difference in the 5at base and 5at TLS.

I drove my friends 07 5at TLS one night, I enjoyed the seats and it did feel like it was on rails, but the power did not compare to the 6MT that I drive. When I originally started looking at the cars, I drove the 5at and the 6mt, and it was night and day. If the TLS had been out when I purchased mine 2 1/2 years ago, I would have got it. But like most have said, I can not see spending the extra money to get one now.

At this point I am very content with what I am driving and enjoy the car every time I drive it. There are still some mods I want to do to the car, but those will come(looking at buying a new house). I am going to wait and see what is available when the all electric cars hit the market, very interested in the Volt, as much as I don't like domestics, it is a great concept and very environmental friendly. I will keep the TL for road trips, or consider the new TL based on looks and appeal.

goredcar

We have had a new TLS for a month now. I have not driven it a lot, but it was at the dealer yesterday and I got a TL as a loaner. It was the even same color, but I did not like the "plainer" look... even the gear shift was not as nice. Anyway, in terms of performance I thought that they were pretty similar, till I got the TLS back and pushed it a little. You can definitely feel the torque advantage.

You cannot compare a 6MT to the 5AT – they are totally different cars. I drive a CLS with bolt on mods and there is no comparison to the new TLS in power or handling. I do agree that the handling in the TLS is better than the TL, but it still needs work. The corner that makes me smile at 140K/H in my CL makes me nervous in the TLS.

Is the TLS worth it? Definitely! You get better suspension, better engine, paddle shifters, Navi, better brakes and the highly debated better wheels… oh! and let’s not forget the quad exhaust!

BEAR-AvHistory

Personally, I would always go with an unbiased tester using the calibrated clocks then an owner trying to justify his $35,000+ investment with only with opinion on how it "feels".

I have been involved with sanctioned racing, NHRA & SCCA, for way to long & have heard way to many stories from guys over the years about how fast "their" car to put any faith in anything claimed that is not backed up by certified lap times or time slips.

Vanilla_Gorilla

I agree!!! The 5AT is garbage...IMO.

BEAR-AvHistory

Interesting thing, the only difference in factory specs on chassis, brakes, wheels & engine I can find between the 2006 TL 6spd & the 2007 TL-S is the 300cc bigger engine.

BTW the wheels look different but they are the same size 17X8, have the same backspacing & carry the same size tires. They did not publish the wheel weight but since its a stock street passenger car I expect they are pretty close.

Why would you guys think The "S" will handle better when its the same underneath but heavier overall then the 6spd TL?

ngg19

I am sure it does. However, I wanted to read some personal insights from a guy that had my car and traded it in for a car I am interested. Is that ok?

So I assume you know the differences between 04-06 MT and 07 TLS MT. If so then please help out. So again ignoring cosmetic changes, what are the differences--in addition to the bigger motor?

goredcar

I suggest that you do some more research...
http://www.autoweek.com/apps/pbcs.dl...FREE/308210003

The Type S has stiffer springs, shocks and sway bars... thus the better handling. It also has 286HP vs 258 on the base TL. The Type S has 4 piston Brembo brakes while the base TL has a single piston caliper. In summary… better total overall performance.

BEAR-AvHistory

Interesting IIRC my 06 6spd TL has the same sway bars & spring rates as the 07 TL-S. The calipers say Brembo on them, can post a picture if you like.

Overall the 06 TL 6spd suspension has Brembo(R) Front Power 310-mm X 25-mm Ventilated Disc and Rear Power 282-mm X 9-mm Solid Disc Brakes, 27.2-mm Front Stabilizer Bar, 20-mm Rear Stabilizer Bar, Front Limited Slip Differential & Summer Tires.

The numbers in the tests also say the bigger engine is worth about 14 feet in a quarter mile race. ET of TL-S 14.3 .vs TL 14.4 both clocked at 99mph. Actually its less then 14 feet as I use 100mph to make the calculation quicker.

JD TL-S

iTrader: (1)

Big Difference Imo. Period

I owned a loaded 06 TL NAV auto and an 07 TL-S auto.

Big_Ass_Hamster

BEAR_AvHistory is "mostly" correct.

The 6MT version of the STANDARD TL use different parts than the AT TL. The spring parts are different. Front stablizer (Sway bar) is thicker on the STANDARD MT. The factory suspension is tuned differently on the 6MT. Yes the STANDARD 6MT uses Brembo disc brakes, the same part as the TL-S 6MT. Even the brake disc size is the same as TL-S 6MT. The STANDARD 6MT car WILL smash the AT car due to TWO reasons:

- Better overall suspension system
- Lighter weight of the car.

Those two factors will impact the ride handling. Yes..... yes..... the weight is highly involved here. Physics don't lie. It's that simple, and don't even need to be arguing about. It's just the way it is.

The only difference between the TL-S 6MT and TL 6MT is the *tiny* bit stiffer ride (slightly stiffer spring and use solid sway bar on the TL-S 6MT) even though the STANDARD 6MT comes very close. The Standard TL 6MT should come in 2nd or right on par with the TL-S AT in handling performance. Here is the run down with the overall handling (plus the weight of the car thrown into the equation):

Best to worst:
- TL-S 6MT
- TL 6MT
- TL-S AT
- TL AT

The STANDARD 6MT is the lightest in the group.
The TL-S 6MT is the second lightest.
The TL AT is heavy.
The TL-S AT is the heaviest car in its entire TL class. Heaviest and most lame because it's too heavy. This is also why you are not getting great increase in handling because once again, it's too heavy. This is another reason why the STANDARD 6MT beats the TL-S AT in the acceleration in both 0-60 and quarter mile AND handling.

goredcar is a bone head. Talk about who needs to do more research. Stop acting like a smart ass when you haven't actually looked it up on the 6MT. Just because the TL AT has such and such doesn't mean the 6MT is the exact same. They are DIFFERENT FUCKIN CAR. There are wayyyyy too many ignorant people out there. Jesus.....

BEAR-AvHistory

Auto trans - give me a break. Here is the story on the Auto version of the "S" as far as performance & handling go.

You take the running gear of a base 30K TL 6spd add 300cc (18ci) to the engine displacement, quad exhaust tips & subtract out the limited slip differential.

Change a few bucks worth, at the point of manufacture, of plastic lenses a put new pattern on the seats & charge about $5,000 more for it. Additionally, they don't even give you the option of putting summer performance tires on it from the factory.

Bottom line, a great deal...for Honda.

goredcar

Normally I would be provoked by you, but basically I think that you are an old fart who needs a hobby, so whatever. I think that it is plain stupid to compare a 6MT to 5AT. Being an "old racer" as you claim to be you should know that the autos win at the drags all the time due to consistency. I doubt that even you can claim to have never missed a shift. That just doesn't happen in an auto. Get a new hobby...

The new TL-S (auto) is very quick and even thought I prefer my older CLS-6 there are lots of things I like better in the new TL-S.

S PAW 1

I didn't think the base TL was available with 6MT

goredcar

Yup, there are a lot of assholes out there... I am just a bit curious... what do you drive? I notice that you don’t have that in your profile and you have one post?

I happen to have a 6MT and have driven it for 2 years. I researched the car thoroughly before I bought it. I speak from experience when I compare a 6MT to a 5AT. Do you?

BEAR-AvHistory

Autos do well in the lower classes running against a handicap ET - bracket racing - (if you go to fast/quick you lose) due to consistency. That being said the higher heads up classes like pro-stock where the first one to the finish line regardless of ET wins run manuals.

Additionally, most competitive classes running Autos use a loose high stall speed torque converter to allow a high startline RPM, a trans brake to get a consistent launch & a full manual shift body to ensure quick shifts when you want them.

To compare your TL-S auto to one of those transmissions is like comparing a NASCAR Chevy to a grocery getter.

The TL/TL-S 6spd has a limited slip differential to help traction on a launch, your automatic does not have this & needs to rely 100% on the cars electronics which pulls off the power & applies the brakes to control wheel slip.

Pulling power & applying the brakes is not generally acepted as a good practice to maximize ET & trap speed.

It would be interesting to see a car enthusiast magazine that even bothered to test the automatic version as the primary car in an article.

Finally, It would be interesting to see you put your money where your mouth is & produce something verifiable that says the auto is faster in the TL/TL-S 6spd .vs TL-S A5 debate.