SilverQuartzTL

My question goes back to the original post... WHY would you continue to drive a car with many of the warning lamps on and a horrible vibration?? That's what AcuraCare is for and you can insist on what dealership you want the work to be performed. Sounds like it may have started off as a defect that was made worse by the driver...

I'm just trying to play the opposite side of the coin.

I'm also thinking that if you got so upset with the dealership that you hung up on them that they're probably not all that excited to help you out.

But that's just my opinion. I know I'd be pissed too if I didn't have a car for a couple of weeks!

GUMP

Without getting into specifics, I just settled my lemon case. It takes at least 9-10 months to settle (and it was no way as severe as yours). Honda/Acura will fight you on everything. Prepare for a fight. If they are willing to swap out the car, take it and say thank you. Let your lawyers do all the work. Just supply them with what they ask for and stay quite. Good Luck

aw1

sorry to hear about your car. just to let everyone know, stay away from acura of brooklyn on nostrand avenue if you need to service your car. i bought my 05 TL there for my first oil change (only has 3900 miles on it). parked in the service area and went to talk to the service advisor. after signing all the paper work and was about to step out of his office when i see a 03 TL rear end my car! this happened right in front of me, not even 3 feet away. the other TL was driven by another service guy. he gets out of the other tl screaming the car had no brakes. i stood there for about 2 minutes in shock. nothing came out of my mouth or my service advisor for a while. these idiots finally realized after 5 minutes that the 03 TL that rear ended my car came in for brake issues. wtf man!!! why the hell are they driving that car when it has no brakes? go figure. they should be pushing that car into the service dept. long story short, the impact was about 10-15 mph. they had to keep my car for 3 days to fix the bumper and gave me a loaner (05 TSX). not happy with the way they fixed my bumper. will be calling in to bitch some more soon.

NoRespect

If (big if) it was vandalism, does auto insurance cover the cost - deductable? Homeowners? I Wouldn't be happy with that answer myself, but... Insurance is for when Sht happens.

mickey3c

yes insurance should cover it... but the adjuster wants to look at it before the dealer tears the engine, etc all down. It all sounds so weird to me... The entire thread is weird and while I have had my problems with a few car makers (honda being one of them). It it the owner's car and they have to sign for repair work of any kind. They cannot do an R & D on the car and take it all apart like that without some permission.

Otherwise, how would you know if they did not damage it somehow in the process of taking it all apart.

to me it goes like this..

vandelism on the car body

Acura mentioned moisture frying the computer? Was that a result of the vandelism and some how it was exposed to the elements because of what was done to the car? if so it is all under vandelism. And if this cause more issues... it is still part of vandelism.

And if the car can never be put back together again properly... well.. that can be an issue. More and more problems resulting from vandelism and you get on the slippery slope of who caused this acura not repairing it properly or quality. Or something else going because they could not find the problem and repair it completely.

eithe way I think acura in good faith should not charge you for a loaner. If they can clearly see that it was vandelism, the insurance company should pick up lose of use.. But hell they only do so for 30 days...

TLXLR8S

i agree, stay away

WdnUlik2no

good point, I was about to say sugar in the tank as well, then you reminded me that the gas tank can only opened from the inside of the car. Unless it was pried open like you said, or perhaps broke into the car just for the purpose of opening the tank. Wouldn't make much sense though that they would go through all that trouble JUST to put sugar in the tank and not vandalize the inside as well.

WdnUlik2no

sorry to hear about those a*holes that messed up your car. I swear some people have nothing better to do but f*ck up someone else's stuff. Pisses me off immensely even when it happens to other people I don't know.

It doens't sound like a lemon law case......yet. From my understanding they have to make 3 repair attempts and/or 15 days in service before you can file. BUT there is an exception that more serious issues that affect safety (ie. transmission, engine like you said), must be fixed on the first attempt. After they "fix" it and you still have problems, then I would think you can begin to file a lemon law claim. If they are going through all that trouble to try to prove that the vandals caused all that trouble with your car (which i HIGHLY doubt), then they will more than likely mess something up when they put the engine back in the car, meaning you will still have issues.

If you are able to get a lemon law claim ruled in your favor, then you will be golden. A replacement car. I've worked with a manufacturer rep before (on my Mustang) and they will try their damndest to get you out of continuing with your claim, so if you do file, good luck.

The next best thing is for your insurance company to total the car out. But I highly doubt that even with all the work Acura and the body shop are doing will total enough to declare your vehicle as a loss. Unless of course you have $26,000+ worth of damage.

I honestly hope you are able to get out of the car completely, because with a complete repaint, your car's value will suffer greatly even if its done through the Manufacturer. Trust me I know from experience with that Mustang that I had.

Good Luck. If you ever find those vandals, kick their a**!!!

WdnUlik2no

geez, what a bunch of IDIOTS!!! I just don't get it..... Some things you just don't do.

Its like someone looking at the sun through a telescope without a UV filter.

ekumar

lemon laws will vary state to state, so I am guessing he falls under the 30 days to fix a major repair. Engine being taken out I would think counts as major. I know in CA BMW started giving out some free 7 series because only two of their mechanics could fix management issues with the iDrive, and the backlog caused cars to be delayed over 30 days. Just let the lawyers have at it with acura. It might take a while, but eventually Acura will get tired of having lawyers harass them and hopefully will give in.

StuntingInDaTL

Ok another update:
I called Acura Client Services at 11 AM and let out all my frustrations on the customer service lady (someone has to listen to me vent, no?). Basically I told her that I spoke to lawyers and that I definitely qualify for a lemon case. I then told her that I would like to know what Acura can offer me so that I do not have to proceed with the lemon case and I then demanded to have an answer by tomorrow. I specifically told her that I am not taking this car back and that Acura's behavior has been just disgusting throughout all this. Three weeks after leaving my car there and I still have no loaner. She gave me the usual BS that they don't have to provide one for you and then I went off and told her you guys in Torrance should arrange it, not the a$$holes in Brooklyn who are complete imcompetent morons! She told me she has to escalate this to a case manager and that they would try to contact me within 1-2 business days. I told her I expect a response by tomorrow or otherwise I am moving forward with the lawyers.

At around 12:45 PM I notice a missed call on my cell and then check my voicemail and what do you know, it's the service manager from Acura of Brooklyn, informing me that my car is ready to be picked up.

I called back Acura In Torrance at 1 PM and told them what the voicemail said and asked what to do now since I refuse to pick up this car and that I still have not spoken to one of their case managers. In any case, this customer service rep. tells me that he will escalate this to the case manager and note it as urgent. (Funny how that so soon after calling them the first time the actual service place calls to tell me my car is ready???)

Then at 1:55 PM my phone rings while I'm out on lunch and this time it's the service representative from Acura of Brooklyn calling to say in an extremely fake happy voice that "I have great news for you, you're car is fixed and now runs like news and that you can pick it up at anytime." I nearly started laughing before I told him briefly the situation and then asked what the problem was. He started going on and on, naming parts that had to be replaced (PCM, coils, wires, engine block head, valves just to name what I remember) and then he ended it with "well I just want you to know that the car is now ready to be picked and I wish you all the best with whatever actions you decide to take further." This goes to show you how poorly they communicate, the service manager calls first and then the service rep. about an hour later when they sit right near each other. In any case, it's 4:15 now and I hope to hear from the district case manager out in Torrance before he leaves at 5:30 (2:30 in Cali) or otherwise first thing tomorrow morning I will be calling and demanding to speak with him...

aw1

in my opinion, its more to do with this dealership. they f*in suck!!! rude, unhelpful, etc. the day i bought the car in to fix the bumper that they damaged, i waited for 30mins before someone came out to help me. they knew i was there because i can see them through the glass window.

ndabunka

OK - Let me get this straight... You drive your car for 7K miles with NO PROBLEMS. Around 7,100 miles a bunch of jerks vandalize your car. The police see only external evidence, but based on your story, there is also internal damage to the vehicle (something as simple as a potatoe in your exhaust could create the symptoms you described taking it to your dealer). You then decide (on your own)M that SOMEHOW this valdalism is now applicable to Lemon Law issues? Sorry to hear your having problems but you are bringing all this on yourself. You SHOULD have simply claimed the problems on the insurance paperwork and been done with it. The dealership either fixes it right or they don't. If they don't then there are other avenues. It's NOT a lemon law issue in ANY state. I'm not a lawyer and I don't play one on TV but even an idiot could see that this is a service ratehr than a lemon law issue.

mickey3c

Now it sounds like that the dealer does not want to deal with you at all and they are having you pick up your car... It might be partially fixed, but I imagine once you mentioned lawyers, etc. they decided to button up the car and get it out of the shop for legal reasons.

I wish you all the luck in the world. I hope you get a detailed list of what was done to the car and what the reason was for each part being replaced... I had a car where it went back 22 times in one year. Yeah 22 times before lemon laws. They could not fix the car and they did not do as much as they should have. In the end I traded it in when it was running half ways decent and got something entirely differnt. I just recall it being a year of hell.

StuntingInDaTL

Ok I thought it was related to vandalism too at first, but how do you explain condensation/water buildup on the car's central computer (PCM)??? They would have had to break open the hood and get pretty deep in there and flood it with water. Otherwise the car should withstand heavy rains and car washes, so this is a very serious car defect and Acura has already admitted that is indeed a car defect, with none of it related to vandalsim. So anyway it's 6:30 PM and after 10 hours at work I desperately need to hit up a bar in Manhattan to relieve all this stress. I will let you guys know what the district manager has to say after he "hopefully" contacts me tomorrow.

ndabunka

You already said that they got access to the car. My take is that they poped open the hood and "relieved themselves" all over your engine. Anything "smell funny about the car? Urine in the PCM board would appear identical to water, right?

StuntingInDaTL

Ok so I just got off the phone with the district case manager from Acura and of course he had nothing to say that I was hoping for. At the very best he said Acura would take away one of my monthly payments and that is all they could offer me for everything that has happened and that replacing the car is completely out of the question. I have already paid off about $25,000 with the remaining ~$7,500 left to pay off through March of 2009 so only one f**kin' monthly payment is clearly not going to work for me. So I am left with no choice but to file a lemon case and have this taken to the courts by the lawyers. Sucks that this has to happen but what other choice do I have here, right?

WdnUlik2no

Geez March 2009 is 43 months away, and you only have $7500 left to pay. what are your payments like $170/month? I agree not a real big help with them paying one month for you is not a big help in terms of months, but $170 from $7500 is a heck of a lot better than $170 from lets say $20,000+ You're right for not accepting their offer if you are not satisfied with it.

Good luck with your lemon law claim though, but I am sure Acura will do their best to deny it whether your problems were a cause of the vandals or not.

SilverQuartzTL

At this point, if you're really not happy with the vehicle. I'd say sell it. In my opinion, there's no way you could win a lemon law case... Especially if this is the first incident of anything going wrong with the car and it's since been fixed.

I understand your anger, but can only hope that you've been nicer to these people than you've actually been explaining here. Sounds like the service guys got some serious pressure to fix whatever was wrong. I'm not sure you're telling the whole story though, with expenses as you've described, you would have to authorize all of that work.

I can tell you, having worked extensively in an industry whose goal is to provide excellent customer service, if I'm greeted with some hot head that doesn't know when to shut up, I'm going to do the absolute minimum to satisfy them, then send them on their way. Where as if the customer had shown some understand to me as an individual, rather than blanketing me with the "company" or "organization" name tag, I'd be happy to bend over backwards to make things happen.

Just a thought

MR1

I agree 100%. Just sell it now and cut your losses. Keep us posted.

StuntingInDaTL

Selling it is not an option in my book and right now my main concern is getting the car repainted, since I really don't want to be seen at all driving a car with that much visible vandalism on it. The lawyers are sending me a lot of paperwork to fill out so once that I arrives I will get right to it and begin this ugly lemon case process.

Hybrid

As far as the lawyers wanting you to proceed with the case: Are they taking the case in a way where you owe them NOTHING if they lose the case? If not, you need to do some research before you proceed, because from what you've presented, you don't seem to meet lemon law criteria for most states. Not enough time passed with the car unfixed, and there was only ONE repair attempt, maybe even a successful one. If lawyers get paid anyway, they probably don't care if you win or not. (And if Acura can present a credible case that vandalism was a cause, you have no case). Your refusal to pick up the car after it was (maybe) fixed is going to hurt your case. That's because it makes it look like you just want a new car to bypass the vandalism repair issues, diminished value because of that, etc.