03CoupeV6

So my friend and I took my cars out to a deserted stretch of flat, straight, four-lane highway today. We ran them first, afterwards we put them through the paces. Here are some details about my cars:

2005 Honda Accord EX-V6 Coupe: San Marino Red, automatic, spoiler, stock. 5480 miles, purchased new 01/25/05 for $25,125 + TTL with 4 miles.



2002 Acura 3.2TL: Anthracite Metallic, stock. 41700 miles, purchased used 03/09/05 for $17,000 + TTL with 34,414 miles.





So how does the last generation of Honda engineering stand up to the current?


0-95mph shutdown: TL

This probably surprises all of you, but it doesn't me. Having driven the vehicles extensively, the TL just has more punch. The J30A4 is a high-strung engine that really doesn't feel strong until past 4000rpm, whereas the J32A1 in the TL pulls hard immediately. Sure, both are Honda cars, so neither pull extraordinarily off-the-line, but the TL pulls stronger. Now had my Accord been a 6spd, that would have been all she wrote. There are people who will dispute this result, but unless I have a factory freak in the TL (positive) or in the AV6 (negative), it is true.

Handling: TL

Neither of these cars handle well, but the Accord is wearing Turanza EL41s, and they do everything but grip. In hard braking or accelerating or cornering, they feel as though they're made of marshmellows. The Accord is also jittery over bumps, it lacks the stability of the TL. To the Accord's credit, the TL is wearing Goodyear Eagle LS tires and has more substantial weight behind it. In terms of steering feel, though, the Accord has great steering feel. Much superior to the TL.

Braking: Tie

The tires work against this Accord in this area, as well. They seem to cave in under hard braking, and the Accord's brakes are highly sensitive and somewhat hard to modulate. The TL's stops are longish, but it provides better stability.

Overall, I drive the TL most of the time as is obvious by the amount of miles on both versus length of ownership. The TL feels better to drive, has a far superior sound system and far more comfortable seats. Prior to January, my Honda fleet was a 2003 Accord EX-V6 coupe (SSM/Ebony) and a 1999 Accord EX-L (DEP/Ivory). The 2003 was an early production (9930) and was plagued with little problems, so I traded for the 05 (liked the cars enough to just upgrade in year models). Then a few months later, as the 99 Accord approached 100,000 miles, I traded it in for the TL.

Sorry for the long read, but as you can tell, I am loyal to Honda.

ssk0771

Thats pretty interesting. I thought Accord V6 would win?

03CoupeV6

The Accord might could have pulled ahead had the distance and speed been longer and higher, respectively. The TL didn't blow the Accord away, it was a close run, the Accord's nose staying around the rear quarter panel of the TL.

robeaneee

so you're saying that a tl-p was able to keep up with your av6? so pretty much a tl-s would own it? i don't think so.

03CoupeV6

I expected skepticism, but it's a known fact the TL-S is faster than an AV6. Yes, my TL-P is faster than my AV6. It's not something I made up, by the way. If you read more than a few lines you'd see that I OWN both cars, and this is my second 7th gen AV6 coupe.

NOTE IT IS AN AUTOMATIC.

A V6 6spd coupe would destroy a TL-P.

dampfnudel

or a V6 6spd sedan.

03CoupeV6

Indeed, I hear that's coming in 2006! Oh well, I think this Accord is my last and I'll buy Acuras from here on out. I've had Accords every two years for the past 12, including:

1993 Accord EX
1993 Accord SE (personal favorite, baby Legend, highest quality, timeless beauty)
1995 Accord EX
1997 Accord SE
1999 Accord EX-L
2001 Accord EX coupe 5spd
2003 Accord EX-V6 coupe

And now my 2005 EX-V6 coupe. I've had my fair share of Accords, and this is my first TL and I must say it feels much better.

dampfnudel

Maybe you should try out the Acura TSX one of these days, it's a nice Accord which "feels much better".

robeaneee

i admit i was a bit skeptical, i own a cl-s, and you know how it is between 7th gen av6 and cl-s owners...after all the shit talking i read, i figured the av6 (auto vs auto or 6spd vs 6spd) were pretty much even..and you being an av6 owner yourself, i expected the same argument. just a little surprised that's all. that being said, i thought av6's were pretty damn quick..so a cl-p would be able to hang with a 7th gen av6 as well?

03CoupeV6

Unless the TL-P is a factor freak, then yes. My AV6 just doesn't have the punch the numbers suggest.

As far as the person who told me to try the TSX - Hell no. I had two different ones as loaner cars over a period of 3 weeks and I didn't like them at all.

Ken1997TL

Interesting.. the 2003+ Accord V6's I've driven seem to have more punch than the 2nd gen TL-P

Dyno's and weight measurements back that up. I dunno what to think

03CoupeV6

Ken do you know off-hand low-end torque figures of the two? When you punch down on the gas in my 05 AV6, it doesn't have the same thrust as my TL-P does. The butt dyno seems to indicate the TL makes more torque sooner. The peak torque difference isn't enough difference to matter (212 for the AV6, 216 for the TL), but it FEELS as though the TL puts more down at lower RPMs. Could that have something to do with it?

For what it's worth, the 05 AV6 I got in January seems slower than the 03 AV6 I had from April 03 to then. Could it be the new transmissions?

I had a feeling all along my TL-P was faster than my AV6, and so I decided to test it.

Just so you all know, though, it wasn't a huge defeat - it was a close, but the TL kept the edge.

SatinSilverAV6

iTrader: (2)

I'm going to have to disagree on your conclusion about the AV6 vs TL-P.

Stock 03-05 AV6's run 14.9-15.1 @93-94MPH stock with 2.3 60ft times. There is no TL-P that has ever done that. I put down 193WHP and 177WTQ stock. My car 03 V6 Coupe weighed in at 3272LBS. That is a better power to weight and torque to weight ratio than the TL-P.

I have also ran a TL-S from 0-80MPH and had 2 cars on it. Granted it was with my CAI and he was stock but no TL-P can keep up with the 03+ Accord V6's.

Maybe when you raced your Accord vs TL-P you left traction control on which hurts both cars launches.

sbuswell

it is possibly just not likely sotck vs. stock I held with a 03+ V6 coupe, believe it was an AT, but I have a 99 tl w/headers, k&n filter intake reosnantors removed and iridium plugs. he was on the highway going about 60mph and I can on via the on-ramp. I pulled next him going about 65mph we were dead even and then stepped on it. I down shifted to third and pulled ahead by about 1/2 car length and then he starts inching up, but couldn't pull ahead. we got it up to aboout 105-110 and then shut it down. I think he was surprised,m but again I am not stock and he probably was. Still I beat him and I bet from a stop I could have taken him too.

03CoupeV6

While you're entitled to your own opinion, I've owned YOUR car exactly (assuming it is an auto), and I own a TL-P, and currently a 2005 Accord V6 coupe auto. I don't appreciate, however, the condescending attitude that I wouldn't know how to press the "TCS" button on the dash. Neither AV6 nor TL-P had TCS on during this, and assuming they were both on, what would be the difference?

I've always felt that my 2003 Accord V6 was faster than my 2005 version of the same car. The new one's transmission shifts earlier and different than the old one (but the old one was recalled, so then it is a trade-off).

I'm still waiting for someone to post TQ figures at specific RPMs (not peak) to compare how much torque each engine puts down where because the TL-P seems much stronger off the line than the AV6.

I performed this test, you have my results - whether or not you want to believe it I can't help.

whatwasthat

i concur :

my reason, like you, having own both cars.


i drive 00 tl-p, brother has accord sedan 03 auto v6, gf has 05 accord v6 coupe auto.



everyone, (my brother , gf, and gf's brother) agree that the tl-p pulls stronger off the line. and here you do prove it. even w/ the 15hp difference. we haven't tested it out yet (been too busy + scared to speed now ever since i got a ticket) the cars head to head, but we all agree that the tl-p would win, unless it was a long distance race... then this is where the 15hp difference plays a role.



btw, my gf got her 05 coupe for 23k even; sometime around december'04.. bought in NH w/ no taxes or anything.

03CoupeV6

Haha yes, my TL-P pulls stronger than my AV6 off the line. In a long distance race the AV6 would win, but the TL-P in the real world just seems to have more useful power from my experience.

Now the rest is purely subjective, but the TL feels much better to drive than the AV6. The Accord is jittery and the EL41's do everything but grip.

There isn't much power difference between the AV6 and TL-P. If you really want racing stories where you can be skeptical, go to the TSX forums and watch them talk about beating Accord V6s!

Now that deserves a

Boosted_2gz

When my IS300 was stock, I managed to take a friend's 02 TL fairly easy. After being taken for a few test drives and rides, I personaly dont feel the old TL as a sporty or quick car (couldnt say the same about the TL-S as Ive never ride on one)

Now just recently, I went to the dealer for a test drive (shopping for sister) on the new accord coupe (V6). That car definitely felt faster than my IS300 in its stock form (albeit not by much), and thus, I am positive that it was an even more faster car than the old TL.

Could be that perhaps since you've driven the TL for a long period, you know better about the car compared to your friend who was driving the accord?

03CoupeV6

No, I've had Accords for years - and I know that my TL-P will walk an IS300 because I've done it. He jumped me off the line (RWD) but by second gear I had reeled him in. Now I'm not going to discredit your story of beating your friend's TL-P because all cars are different, and I would appreciate you accepting my story without insulting my friend or myself on our ability to steer and hold a pedal to the floor.

Guys, it doesn't take much experience in driving to push the "TCS" button, pull a car in drive, and floor the pedal.

reloaded

I know the AV6 has horrible handling..because my friend has one..but I would think that the AV6 would kill a TL-P. I've sat in one and although a little shaky, the AV6 is not a slow car for what it is. I've also ridden in a TL-P..that was slow. I highly doubt that a TL-P > AV6 but you said what it was....nice death?

sbuswell

Tl-p's Are Not Slow By Any Means, 00-03 Tl's Do 0-60 In 6.7 Stock, That's Pretty Fast For A 225hp Four Sedan That Weighs Over 3500lbs. I Have Driven An 03 Av6 And Wasn't That Impressed Felt As Quick As A Tl Not Faster. The Mt Av6 Would Walk A Stock Tl-p, But With A Few Bolt-on's That Would Quickly Change. I Have A 99 Tl W/4spd At 0-60 In 7.2 Stock, But With Headers No Intake Resonantors, K&n Filter And Irdium Plugs Plus Optima Red Top I Can Beat Av6's All Day.

sbuswell

Is300 Are Slow Compared To Tl-p, Read Up On Their Stats, It's No Contest. If You Have A Mt Is300 Then You Might Be Able To Beat A Stock Tl-p, But That Would Be Close Too.

Boosted_2gz

Where did you see a 0 - 60 of TL non s at 6.7?? Perhaps u are talking about the 330s?
TL-s is faster than IS300 I concur, but if you say the TL is faster, well... I am pretty sure that you never went to a track or race one properly.

Some paper facts for those who love to net race (taken from edmunds - http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do...24/pageId=1131)

Vehicle 0-60 MPH 1/4-Mile Time
Acura 3.2TL 7.6 15.9@88.7mph
Audi A4 2.8 Quattro 8.4 16.4@87.8mph
BMW 328i 6.9 15.3@90.1mph
Chrysler 300M 7.7 15.9@89.0mph
Lexus ES300 8.2 16.2@86.1mph
Mitsubishi Diamante 8.3 16.3@85.8mph
Saab 9-5 7.6 15.8@87.9mph
Volvo S80 8.2 16.2@87.3mph

0-to-60 acceleration, sec. Quarter-mile acceleration, sec. Quarter-mile speed, mph
Acura TL Type-S 6.6 15.1 93.6
BMW 330i 6.7 15.1 93.6
Cadillac Catera Sport 8.3 16.3 83.3
Infiniti I30t 8 16.1 87
Lexus IS 300 7.5 15.7 89.4
Lincoln LS V8 7.2 15.5 90.9
Mazda Millenia S 9.1 16.8 85
Mercedes-Benz C320 7 15.4 90.1
Volvo S60 7.2 15.5 92.4

Both TL non S and IS300 are slow cars,
it just in term of dynamic (handling braking etc) and drag speed, I have to give the edge slightly to the IS300 - seriously unbiased opinion (if you're a true auto enthusiast you will know this as well)

oh and back to the post, I managed to pull some data on the accord as well

Accord 2003 AT V6 sedan:

0 - 30 (sec): 2.9
0 - 45 (sec): 4.6
0 - 60 (sec): 7.0
0 - 75 (sec): 10.2
1/4 Mile (sec @ mph): 15.42 @ 92.9

The coupe, given its lighter weight by almost 90 pounds (and aggresive gearing?)
I believe will net to a slightly better number.

Of course anything can happen during a race, but with all the hard facts, I just find it very hard to believe (and many others) that a TL (-p?) can take a stock accord coupe v6 in terms of acceleration.

Boosted_2gz

Oh btw, I love edmunds more than car and driver cos they provide some seriously unbiased opinion - aka real world drivers (ex: c&d pull 7.5 and 15.2 s time from tsx - no other magazine has ever been able to copy that time, not to mention, tsx drivers at acurazine)

Boosted_2gz

another curiousity, how did you manage to get your 0-60 time?
(I hope u are not going to say g-tech or stopwatch).

and yes Im bored, its blazin hot at 95 degrees here in Cali...

SatinSilverAV6

iTrader: (2)

See you have to remember that a 225HP sedan like your TL with a 3500lbs curb weight is a hell of alot worse than a 240HP 3300LBS Accord. You would get smoked stock for stock. If your car had I/H/E and plugs you would still lose to my accord with I/E and plugs like I have. You would need a TL-S to compete.

whatwasthat

this is what we're taling about here, even though those numbers theortically say so, it isn't true when placed in real life.


like 03coupev6, i too have accords (two of them - both v6, one sedan one coupe).. and they are slower in terms of acceleration, and short distance racing (1/4 mile).... yes, we both (i and 03coupev6) concur that they will take us in the long run, but we stated (w/ evidence of real runs) that they cannot take us in terms of short distance..



one of these days, i'll have to make a video of this race..

SatinSilverAV6

iTrader: (2)

I still don't agree with you. There is evidence of real runs in the 1/4 mile where the accord v6 is faster. Stock 03 V6 Accords have run 14.9-15.2 in the 1/4 mile @92.9-94MPH. There isn't a stock TL-P that can match that and hasn't yet. Also 60ft times for the Accord of 2.2-2.3 are not any slower than what a TL-P will get. So from a real life instance on the TRACK the TL-P won't even pull off the line on a Accord V6. It would be reletively even off the line and at about 35MPH and up the Accord would be pulling away from the TL-P. Maybe on the street you both have found different but there is a difference between that and the track. Take both the Acura TL-P and the 03 Accord V6 and you will find out for yourself that the Accord will come out on top and won't be playing catch-up.

And street racing is not evidence of real runs as you said! If you have any Acura TL-P 1/4mile timeslips post them and Ill post some AV6 slips and we will see who is playing catch-up.

03CoupeV6

Guys guys take a look at the thread title again.

The key word in it is "MY". In MY situation, with MY cars, MY TL-P is faster than MY Accord V6.

As for 0-60 times and what not, the 99 TL (which is what was quoted 7.6 to 60) is about half a second slower than the 00+ because they improved low-end torque and added an extra gear. Edmunds agrees, since you prefer Edmunds.

Also, you should note that Edmunds says in their 2003-2004 Family Sedan comparison, which the 03 Accord EX-V6 sedan wins, that the sedan did 0-60 in 7.5 seconds and the 1/4 mile in 15.7. That, too, is straight from Edmunds.

So, all cars are different and perform accordingly under differing circumstances. The J30A4 seems to have no punch off the line, even though it has great mid-range.

In the end, MY experience leaves me disappointed with the new Accord. It's driving experience is not nearly as pleasing as the TL, despite the fact it is much newer. Had I bought the TL before the Accord, I wouldn't have ever purchased it.

sbuswell

7.6 and 7.5 0-60 is way too high, that's probably 5-60 street start times, which will be higher than at a track 0-60

03CoupeV6

7.6 and 7.5 are 0-60 times for the 1999 TL-P and 2003 Accord V6 per edmunds.com. Not street starts.

sbuswell

that's crap, go to car-stats.com and see, all sites will have different numbers. Those cars are faster than that though.

03CoupeV6

Car-stats.com's number is for the 2000+

sbuswell

car-stats.com has numbers for 99 tl it 0-60 in 7.2, 00-03 is 0-60 in 6.7.

03CoupeV6

That would also make sense and mean that Acura was right when they said 1/2 second faster.

6.7 in a TL-P seems really fast, though. The same article states 15.2@93 for the TL-P, how close is that to what people have really gotten with stock TL's?

sbuswell

that .5 second difference seems to be case by case. I have driven both 01 tl-p 5AT and I have a 99 TL-P 4AT w/some mods and my car is much faster than a 01 01 tl-p with intake. Friend I work with has the 01 tl-p and we raced from a stop her car has an AEM CAI and I have headers, K&N filter both resonantors removed, iridum plugs and I smoked her. She knows how to drive mind you we were both in SS and both spun a tad at launch. 0-60 in 6.7 is fast I bet I am a little faster but not that much, so maybe stock 00-03 tl-p are a tad slower, maybe 6.9-7.0. I do believe my car is a bit of a freak when it's cool outside is screams!

03CoupeV6

I think you have a slight case of owner bias. The 99 TL-P is slower stock than the 00-03 because of gearing. It's nice to love your car, but let's be realistic.

Boosted_2gz

I love this thread,
its like my after work stress reliever

03CoupeV6

This definitely snowballed. I don't really care what Joe Blow's Accord V6 can do. My Accord V6 cannot beat my Acura TL. It's been tested, and it cannot. All cars are different, maybe my Accord is a factory dog or the TL is a factory freak.