winkyyy

im gonna be changing my oil soon for my 23k miles 08 tl-s. idk whether i should stick with mobil 1 or should i upgrade to royal purple. is royal purple really worth the money?

ANC297

iTrader: (2)

I have been using RP for a while now, only because when I needed my last 2 oil changes it was on sale and Mobil wasn't.

SpiderX1016

Unless RP is about the same price (+/- $1 a quart) it's not worth it.

Otherwise, I'd go with M1 from Walmart.

I hate cars

Both are average oils and both will give you many trouble free miles. I don't think RP is worth the asking price but at least you know you're getting a true grpIV synthetic unlike most of the Mobil One products that are grpIII and labeled "fully synthetic".

If you want a truly better oil, try Redline or Motul. These two stand out from the rest by a lot for many reasons.

SpiderX1016

I liked GC 0w-30 in my VW.

Anyone use it? or is it too thick for our engines?

I hate cars

I think GC would be great for our engines. These things are spec'd for everything from a 5w-30 to a 15w-40 outside of the US where they don't have to worry about the government mandated CAFE standards. I ran Amsoil ACD for the first 70,000 miles which is a straight 30wt. GC would be a good "one size fits all" oil for every climate. Ok flow in extreme cold and it's a thick 30wt, nearly a 40wt which would cover the really hot climates and hard use.

stock to the bone

would it be an ideal oil for Road trip with prolong driving (10-12 hrs a day for 3 days) under high heat (80-90 degree)?

218TL

Just put in RP for my oil change. Doesn't really matter to me. The price difference was like 50 cents a quart so it didn't bother me at all. Maybe it's just all in my head but I felt like my car ran smoother with RP compared to m1

vovka2007

IS Amsoil good? Compared to Redline or RP is Amsoil much different?

SpiderX1016

What are your oil change intervals?

If you change the oil in like 3k miles, any of them will be fine. Even 5k, they will all perform well.

erick3

RP doesn't provide any more protection than Mobil 1. It's not a bad product, but you should know that the price difference really isn't worth it; this comes from a person who's currently running RP lol

vinnier6

iTrader: (1)

you cant go wrong with mobil 1...walmart sells the 5qt container for 23 bucks...its less then 5 bucks a qt!

I hate cars

That's the ideal scenario for a thicker oil. Oil temps on a road trip will surprise you. The only time I've seen them go higher is prolonged hard driving but otherwise crusing down the freeway for hours at a time gives some of the highest temps.

There's absolutely no need for a 20wt anything, go with a quality 30wt. GC as mentioned above will work very well for almost any scenario. Redline 5w-30 is awesome with a super high HTHS for protection. Mobil One EP is a good thick 30wt, one of their best products.

I hate cars

True. There's hardly anything made today that won't go 5K safely.

However, I like the Redline because of it's super high HTHS and HTHS retention after hard use. One really good property is even though it fits in the 30wt category at 10.7cSt@100c, it seems to thin out less at the temps above this measurement point.

SpiderX1016

Have you ever used Pennzoil Platinum? I've been thinking of switching over to it in 1,000 miles.

erick3

Matt,

Can you explain "because of it's super high HTHS and HTHS retention after hard use"...? For the amateurs, please!

I hate cars

HT/HS is High temperature High sheer. This is a rating the oil gets based on a test where it's heated to 300F and sheared at a certain rate, can't remember the exact rate. This test is brutal on the oil and it is a very good indicator of how it will perform and protect in an engine bearing under high rpm, high load, and high temperature. Many European makers spec oils based on a minimum HTHS regardless of the actual viscosity.

This is one of the most important aspects of an oil IMO. Some will argue that all you need is the minimum HTHS and anything higher than that is not necessary but I've seen enough engines that I do not believe it to be true. I say the higher the better. I've bought some white papers that seem to back me up.

General Motors did a great test on their 3.8L engine using two similar oils, one with the minimum allowed HTHS which I think is 2.6 and one with a high HTHS of 3.8 or something like that. The main bearings, rod bearings, and rings were all weighed before assembly. The engines were run on the dynos under the exact same conditions and then torn down. The one with the higher HTHS had 1/5 the main and rod bearing wear as indicated by the weight loss. Now these engines were run hard. The requirement is not as great if you granny the car all day and stay below 2,000rpm but it's always good to have it there when you need it.

What happens to an oil is it starts out at whatever the spec is, say you have a low quality 5w-30. You put it under lots of stress (pressure and heat) like it sees in a rod bearing and it temporarily sheers (thins out), sometimes down to a 5w. So it pumps like a 30wt normally yet when you need it the most to protect the bearing, it thins down to a 5w and then back up again to a 30wt once the load is taken off.

There's also permanent sheer where the oil thins and stays that way from severe abuse.

The HTHS rating is directly related to engine wear period. The reason why a higher viscosity oil protects better is it usually comes with a higher HTHS. The HTHS usually gets higher as the starting viscosity gets higher. A 30wt will usually have a higher HTHS than a 20. A 40 will be higher than a 30, and so on.

However, certain special oils defy this. Redline 5w-20 has a higher HTHS (3.3) than most 30wts. So you get the flow of a 20wt and the protection of a good 30wt.

The 5w-30 that I'm using has a 3.8 HTHS. This is higher than many 40wt oils. I'm getting great startup and warmup flow and the same hot protection as if I were running a 40wt but without any of the negatives of a 40wt. It's the best of all worlds with the exception of the price. To get this kind of performance, additives won't really help. You have to start out with an awesome base oil and that's what drives the cost up.

HTHS retention is just that. As the oil is run hard, say for an all day track event, it will start losing it's HTHS and won't protect as well. I've seen tests where Redline was run for 5 all day track days with 300+ degree oil temps and wide open throttle for a couple hours at a time and when they tested it afterward, it lost nothing. What it means to us is we can run it hot and hard and still run a full interval without changing it out early.

I would post some links but my computer is slow as hell right now.

S PAW 1

While I certainly haven't done the in depth study that IHC has performed, I have done quite a bit. I personally like the AMSOIL product, and use it in both my engine and tranny.

While I respect the studies that IHC has pointed out, I am more concerned with real world durability in a stock or slightly modified machine, not the breakdown of an oil that has endured the type of testing that will never be seen on the street. In a heavily modified machine producing mega hp, hell yes!

I am posting a link which I found useful in my oil decision. The amount of information provided in the highly competitive and very profitable oil industry can be staggering. It changes with "new" testing frequently.

While AMSOIL promotes longer term oil changes, I haven't had the balls to extend beyond the 7,500 mark using the "Signature" series 0w-30 teamed up with either AMSOIL's own "Absolute" filter, or K&N Gold.

Since I don't, I may be wasting money. So, while I have much faith in AMSOIL's literature, I don't trust it enough to hurt my baby

http://www.amsoil.com/StoreFront/atm.aspx

'07 TL-S 5A/T CBP
Fujita F5
Progress RSB
P2R TBS
Braille battery
V1 on the lookout

DMZ

I've been using NAPA's own brand of synthetic 5W-20 for over a year now. It's really Valvoline SynPower with NAPA's name on it. Under $5 a quart. No need to spend more, especially at the price Royal Purple gets. Mobil1 may be good oil, but since ExxonMobil made $45 Billion in profits in 2008 while ripping us off for almost $5/gal at the pump, I don't think they need any more of my money, OR YOURS! Have you also noticed that gas at Exxon and Mobil stations is typically 8-10¢ more a gallon than anyone else?

In fact, the last time I had service at Acura of Manhattan, Tony the head mechanic, opened the oil cap, called me over, and said "Look In There, You See How Clean That Is? That's Because You've Been Using Synthetic Oil"

I also use the NAPA Gold oil filter (#1334). It's WIX with NAPA's name on it. I find the oil stays cleaner longer than with any other brand I've tried since I have the car, and that includes Mobil1 and K&N.

Just use any name brand synthetic, you'll be fine. All this talk about one synthetic versus another gets overblown on these forums.
.
.

I hate cars

I've run the SSO 0w-30 and it's a good oil. I only ran it to 5,000 miles though. Amsoil's EAO filter along with RP's filter stand out far above the rest, even K&N and Mobil One. Using these filters even without going the distance will give you better filtration and better flow. There was a very interesting particle count performed on bitog back when people knew what they were talking about. They took an oil out of the bottle and did a particle count and then another after it had been in the engine with an EAO filter for the entire change interval and found the oil to be cleaner than when it came out of the can. This was done by a skeptic, a guy who set out to prove Amsoil's claims wrong.

What I wanted to do is elaborate on those starting HTHS numbers. That number is directly related to engine wear. It's a measure of how tough the oil is, how well it protects, and how well it will hold up under real world conditions. Like I said, many of the high end manufacturers now have a minimum HTHS requirement for certain engine families. Porsche typically specifies something with a 3.6 or greater.

The rating was developed because manufacturers needed a real world number to see how well an oil would hold up once inside of an engine, in a ring pack or rod bearing. The viscosity number on the can only says how the oil is going to flow but not what the viscosity is going to be once under pressure.

I believe SSO has something like a 3.2 or 3.3 which is pretty good for a for a 0w-30. But this oil is built around extended drains, not absolute best engine protection. I'm sure you will get many trouble free miles out of it.

I'm not trying to argue but just to clarify my original post. The starting HTHS is very important if you're concerned about wear when run hard. The HTHS retention is only important if you run it hard for hours on end.

WRXtranceformed

The oils IHC mentioned are all awesome. I used to be an Amsoil dealer just so I could hook up my friends out of state and now I'm just a Preferred Customer so I just get their stuff at dealer cost. That's why I go with Amsoil products. All I ran in my old STi was Amsoil, it physically couldn't handle Mobile 1...it would just burn up like a quart every few times I wrung it out whereas the Amsoil would stay at exactly the same level until my next oil change.

Just make sure you monitor your interval and use a decent oil. Unless you're taking your car to the racetrack every single weekend you should be fine no matter what route you go...unless you're anal like us

LaCostaRacer

^ I agree with DMZ. Almost any brand synthetic oil will serve us well in our cars. The TL is a luxury performance car and not a race car driven under high loads all the time. It was designed to use even conventional oils so almost any synthetic will be a large upgrade in performance. So any oil will work as long as you follow the MID and replace the filter each time.

I think some Aziners spend more time stressing over what kind of oil to use than what they're eating. What's going have a direct impact on you the most in this scenario: A $10/qt high end synthetic oil .vs. $2.50/qt Motorcraft Synthetic blend for a car (that most of you will be selling within 4 years) or eating a McDonalds Angus Deluxe .vs. a Grilled Chicken Sandwich. I would argue that Angus Deluxe will cause you more harm than a cheap oil will to the TL. Those suckers have 39 grams of fat in them.

WRXtranceformed

Yeah haha I agree with you to a point too. If I was just leasing my car I really could care less what oil I put in it. Since I'm driving this one into the ground (since I can't trade it in for what I owe on it), I want to make sure it lasts as long as possible. Using a high quality oil does go a long way in keeping an engine running as well as it can for as long as it can.

I hate cars

Which one did you run in the STi? I ran the ACD SAE30 in the TL for 75,000 miles and it was a great oil. I remember reading about some spun rod bearings from Mobil One 5w-30 in the Subbies. Any truth to that?

S PAW 1

This is exactly how posts should be. Everyone sharing vast knowledge, and everyone learns from it.
No flames, arguments, personal attacks.
IHC, I especially want to commend you with your knowledge, I know it gets tiring sometime......but everyone learns from it.


Go ACURAZINE! Let's keep it going

I hate cars

You're right. 25 posts IN AN OIL THREAD and no flamewar yet. I think we've set a record lol.

It's nice throwing ideas out there in a friendly way, even if we don't all agree we can sort through the ideas and make educated decisions.

LaCostaRacer

When WRXTransformed talks about driving a car to the ground, I would interpret that as trying to put 1 million miles on the car would be the upper limit of what he desires.

Remember when Toyota use to print adds of their cars breaking 1 million miles many years back? I don't ever remember these ads saying anything about synthetic oil being the reason for this- frequent oil changes was what I remember. Here's a link on a car that broke one million miles: http://www.theautochannel.com/news/2...29/028398.html.

Cars were simpler in the 90's than they are now and I doubt any of our cars are going to get to the 1million mark for a host or reasons: technology, fuel economy, smog emissions will be some big factors against reaching this milestone.

I drove my last car (1992 Maxima SE) for 12 years using just Castrol GTX and the motor was fine but the spoiler was falling off, the technology was obsolete and it was unsafe compared to new cars of today. That's why I got another car- it wasn't because the motor was bad. I needed a more stylish and comfortable ride and liked the idea of navigation and bluetooth along with the safety and performance upgrade the TL had over my old Maxima.

I know this thread has transformed from the OP asking a simple question to people chiming in on their track experiences and such. Every driver needs to make an educated decision but for the people that DON'T race their cars on a track I would recommend a lower cost oil and save your money for other stuff. I personally use Mobile-1 or whatever is on sale because I don't track my car but I like the benefits of a synthetic or synblend oil when using the MID for oil changes- it's cheap insurance. There's no way I would buy a 8-$10/qt oil because the benefits don't justify the doubling of costs to me.

e30cabrio

iTrader: (6)

Where are people getting German Castrol? I just did a search and the results were pretty slim.

I hate cars

I'm the first to say that a TL will run fine on any modern SL or SM oil you put in it. I'll add to that, that most would be wasting their money on this $10/quart stuff.

But for those of us that want to run it till the wheels fall off the better oils are worth it. I also have plans to take it to Willow and I wouldn't think about running it that hard for that long with Mobil One 5w-30 in there.

I've seen the studies of how HTHS relates to engine wear. There is no disputing that. You're basically saying you will accept a certain amount of engine wear to save money on oil. That's fine. It may be the difference in a 300,000 mile engine vs a 500,000 mile engine. To most TL owners the car will be long gone before it hits either of those mileages.

But from the teardowns I've done with high end oils specifically esters like Redline, there is no denying the lack of wear and lack of piston ring land deposits. These are the deposits that Seafoam and other cleaners try and get out of there usually with little success. These deposits cause ring sticking and loss of compression over time. I guess seeing this with my own eyes makes me bias, even when it comes to my daily driver 210whp car.

I don't just want my car to make it to high mileage I want it to be running like new when it gets there and that's where this oil comes in.

And one thing to point out, we all know these million mile cars are couriers 99% of the time that run non stop for 9 hours on end down the freeway. Not typical of most of us and much easier on the engine and oil.

I would like to address your technology point though. Modern cars have a better chance of the engine lasting longer thanks to the electronics. I've seen some literature by GM that showed when the Chevy 4.3L went from carbureted to fuel injected, engine life expectancy went up by 50%.

With the super precise fuel metering and dead on ignition timing along with the much shorter time in fuel enriched open loop operation during warmup, modern engines have a much better chance of going the distance. On the freeway the modern cars don't have as much of an advantage. In stop and go and frequent starts, they have a huge advantage.

My recommendation does not just come from a racing point of view as it seems you're trying to make it sound. But while you would like to think otherwise, a tougher oil that shows less wear in a race engine is going to trickle down into a street engine. While it won't be as pronounced, the difference is there.

If I'm still here 10 years from now I'll have teardown results from an engine run on a premium synthetic it's whole life.

e30cabrio

iTrader: (6)

I plan on driving my CL until it won't run. It has 183k & I just replaced the engine towards that goal.

It currently has RP in it & an Amsoil filter. I have an oilchange worth of Amsoil Synthetic 30 weight and a RP Syn 30 weight change, I run my oil 4500-5k miles and plan on trying Redline or GC if I can find it after those two changes.

I need high heat protection seeing as it is 100+++ from May to September here.

I have the 182k motor that I always ran quality syn in (25k miles) and I believe the po did so also.

I will eventually be tearing it down & will post the results.

IHC as always I appreciate you sharing your data.

Thanks to all that have given of their intelligence.

I hate cars

If you don't mine me asking, what happened to the old engine?

fsttyms1

I run Amsoil. I have 22k miles on this interval. Ill be draining the oil and rebuilding the motor in a week or so (doing a 3.5 conversion, nothing wrong with the motor other than a slightly leaking rear main seal) and plan on sending the analysis off to see the condition. I have no doubt that the oil itself is still good. ive done 15k intervals with high TBNs.

e30cabrio

iTrader: (6)

Nothing, it was almost time for the the 105k T-Belt & the rear main was leaking. I had the money & wanted a 3.6 so I took the plunge.

The original motor ran great, the car was (I thought) fast & got good mileage.

I got an 04 Ody motor, replaced the internal components with MDX crank/rods & RL pistons, gave it S heads and am going to slowly "play" with the original motor. It's sitting on an engine stand in my garage.

I hate cars

Duh. I should've read your signature. It would be neat to see the insides anyway...

e30cabrio

iTrader: (6)

I promise to post pictures of the internals as soon as I dig into it. It will be a little while.

Here is a picture of the original motor, right after it came home:



And as it sits now:

SpiderX1016

Check out Autozone. Sometimes Pepboys might have it.

They usually go for about $8/Quart.

LaCostaRacer

Sorry IHC, not trying to stir up trouble here. It's no doubt that you know your stuff on this subject.

I hope to also have my car for another 8 years and I'll look forward to seeing how things go on this subject. I think a strong argument for using the more expensive oils is the running with extended change intervals but I don't hear much on this forum on that argument. It sounds like a lot of people run with RP, Redline, or even Amsoil but change the oil with conventional intervals.

stock to the bone

i got GC from Autozone. Last time i bought, it was 6.99 per quart. the front says European formula, the back says Made in Germany.

SpiderX1016

and the 0w-30 is black text and highlighted in red.

e30cabrio

iTrader: (6)

Thanks, sadly no Autozones here