Mistake getting the Manual???
03-13-2010, 12:06 AM
#41
I will personally never own a MT for daily driving. I grew up in the DC area with some of the worst traffic in the nation and I learned really quickly that MTs get really annoying during long, congested commutes. I don't really consider the TL or the TL-S a performance car, I bought this car as my mobile office, so the AT was a no-brainer for me. And I personally have never looked back. For a weekend / performance car, that's a no-brainer...MT all the way.
03-13-2010, 07:05 AM
#42
Registered Member
While this might seem a bit much, in order to gain a feel for things, you have to start somewhere. There is something your ECU will do for you automatically, but I'd rather not describe that because if you make use of that "feature", it could become a habit and that would not be in your best interest.
03-13-2010, 07:07 AM
#43
Registered Member
[QUOTE=CubanLynx84;11822545][QUOTE=Jesstzn;11821853]I drove sticks for years and loved them ... but sometimes there comes a point with age where you just don't want to shift any more .. my last 2 cars have been the A/T. Do I miss the stick .. yes .. do I regret buying the A/T ... no...
My sentiments exactly I've always had manuals but with all the driving I do throughout the day I'd rather be comfortable and just pop it into drive and go. And with all the nyc traffic, driving a manual is just too much.
However it's good that you are learning to drive manual but if your second guessing yourself then stay away from city traffic for awhile at least til you get the hang of it.
Truth be known, I'm twice your age and this has never crossed my mind.
My sentiments exactly I've always had manuals but with all the driving I do throughout the day I'd rather be comfortable and just pop it into drive and go. And with all the nyc traffic, driving a manual is just too much.
However it's good that you are learning to drive manual but if your second guessing yourself then stay away from city traffic for awhile at least til you get the hang of it.
03-13-2010, 07:11 AM
#44
Registered Member
I live in So Cal and take the 60 Freeway to work everyday so there are times when I'm stuck in a mile or 2 of bumper to bumper traffic.
I also own a 6spd and while the first month or two was really aggravating with the stop and go. After I changed my driving habits a bit it's not too bad. Basically gotta break the bad habit that most AT drivers have of tailgating in traffic and doing the stop-go-stop-go dance. Just stop hugging other driver's rear ends so much and idle forward in 1st if the traffic is really bad. You can do 1st > 2nd shift at 10mph/2k rpm and just cruise at 10 mph in 2nd. I do that a lot for moderate > heavy stop and go traffic. Downside is that aggressive drivers will merge in front of you or cut you off. But I don't really care as I laugh at them wasting their gas and brake pads doing the stop-go-stop-go dance.
Honestly owning a 6spd makes the commute to and from work a lot more fun for me. As long as the traffic isn't bad and I can cruise at 55-60mph. And a clear on/off ramp is just so much fun with a 6spd.
I'm sure it will grow on you, I was frustrated when I first got my car too (TL is first MT car) but as the months passed by and I grew more pro efficient with how my car worked now I can't even imagine driving a AT.
I also own a 6spd and while the first month or two was really aggravating with the stop and go. After I changed my driving habits a bit it's not too bad. Basically gotta break the bad habit that most AT drivers have of tailgating in traffic and doing the stop-go-stop-go dance. Just stop hugging other driver's rear ends so much and idle forward in 1st if the traffic is really bad. You can do 1st > 2nd shift at 10mph/2k rpm and just cruise at 10 mph in 2nd. I do that a lot for moderate > heavy stop and go traffic. Downside is that aggressive drivers will merge in front of you or cut you off. But I don't really care as I laugh at them wasting their gas and brake pads doing the stop-go-stop-go dance.
Honestly owning a 6spd makes the commute to and from work a lot more fun for me. As long as the traffic isn't bad and I can cruise at 55-60mph. And a clear on/off ramp is just so much fun with a 6spd.
I'm sure it will grow on you, I was frustrated when I first got my car too (TL is first MT car) but as the months passed by and I grew more pro efficient with how my car worked now I can't even imagine driving a AT.
03-13-2010, 07:18 AM
#45
Registered Member
The drive home today was pretty fun I am learning that I can coast around at low speeds in 1st without applying gas which I really didnt realize before lol. This helps a lot with my occasional over throttled starts from a standstill. the 1-2 shift is still rough for me and its hard to get used to 1st gear, it seems to rev up so fast I have to shift to second very shortly after accelerating from a stop. If I can get that smoother and quite stalling trying to pull in my driveway thats up hill a bit I should be good!
03-13-2010, 07:28 AM
#46
Registered Member
Do a search on this. You'll find that many of us manual user's have gone with the General Motors Synchromesh Friction Modified fluid (part #12377916).
03-13-2010, 07:35 AM
#47
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If your getting a jerky shift, look at the tach. These ULEV vehicles let the engine idle down very slow and many times you have to wait for the engine to slow down to match the needed rpm for the engine.
03-13-2010, 08:00 AM
#48
The RPMs dropping slowly is due to a heavier mass flywheel. I think I remember reading that the Accord has a dual-mass flywheel.... so I'd think the TL would have one also. It helps to smooth out the NVH but ultimately its heavier so that would explain a lot.
03-13-2010, 08:17 AM
#49
Registered Member
The TL does have a dual mass flywheel, but that's not the reason for engine speed to drop more slowly. The ECU controls this for several reasons, one of which is to reduce emissions. The other reason is the one I didn't want to mention to the OP because if he starts to rely on this then drives another manual, he will have more difficulty getting use to the timing of his shifts.
03-13-2010, 09:12 AM
#50
i am so smart S M R T
1 to 2 shift is a shift that nobody can get perfect 100% of the time. Don't worry about it too much. But what I noticed helps to smooth my shifts out is to overlap when I clutch out and depress the gas pedal. Basically my right foot goes down on the gas pedal very shortly before my left foot no longer contacts the clutch pedal. All the motions are smooth and gradual though. Don't abruptly snap your foot back when you shift. The faster you drive, the faster you should shift to get it smooth. So in normal everyday driving, try slowing down the timing o your shifts.
Also a trick my friend taught me was when you lift your right foot change gears, RIGHT before your foot lets go of the gas, start pulling the shifter in the direction of the next gear a tenth of a second before you actually clutch in. If you do it right, it should be butter smooth with no resistance or funny sounds. This "overlap" is very very short in any case.
When I get it perfect, my passenger's head does not bob at ALL even on the 1-2 shift. You have to experiment, as it's been said. The rest is just practice and experience.
Also a trick my friend taught me was when you lift your right foot change gears, RIGHT before your foot lets go of the gas, start pulling the shifter in the direction of the next gear a tenth of a second before you actually clutch in. If you do it right, it should be butter smooth with no resistance or funny sounds. This "overlap" is very very short in any case.
When I get it perfect, my passenger's head does not bob at ALL even on the 1-2 shift. You have to experiment, as it's been said. The rest is just practice and experience.
03-13-2010, 11:13 AM
#51
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^^ Yea, once you get this down, passengers don't even feel a shift (as a friend just noted to me about this last night on my shifts) - more of a 1st gear, slight paused, accelerate from 2nd gear. Exact words, "This is a manual? Crap, I didn't even feel the shift."
Just keep practicing guys. 1 to 2 shift is the toughest on the TL, in my opinion and took me quite a few weeks to get used to.
What's this 2nd reason? If you don't mind, please send me a PM.
Just keep practicing guys. 1 to 2 shift is the toughest on the TL, in my opinion and took me quite a few weeks to get used to.
The TL does have a dual mass flywheel, but that's not the reason for engine speed to drop more slowly. The ECU controls this for several reasons, one of which is to reduce emissions. The other reason is the one I didn't want to mention to the OP because if he starts to rely on this then drives another manual, he will have more difficulty getting use to the timing of his shifts.
03-13-2010, 12:55 PM
#52
Registered Member
^^ Yea, once you get this down, passengers don't even feel a shift (as a friend just noted to me about this last night on my shifts) - more of a 1st gear, slight paused, accelerate from 2nd gear. Exact words, "This is a manual? Crap, I didn't even feel the shift."
Just keep practicing guys. 1 to 2 shift is the toughest on the TL, in my opinion and took me quite a few weeks to get used to.
What's this 2nd reason? If you don't mind, please send me a PM.
Just keep practicing guys. 1 to 2 shift is the toughest on the TL, in my opinion and took me quite a few weeks to get used to.
What's this 2nd reason? If you don't mind, please send me a PM.
03-13-2010, 01:44 PM
#53
It's all on the individual. My 6MT was the first manual I ever owned... and to be honest, it wasn't very fun during the first two months. Don't get me wrong, I felt a great deal of satisfaction during those first two months of learning and improving on how to drive stick correctly, but it was by no means "fun."
I've had the car for two years now, and I must say that I am definitely glad that I didn't get it in the 5AT. I think all of us 6MT owners enjoy ripping up an empty road in the middle of the night, flying through gears. It's lame, but I feel super cool doing the third to fourth gear pull at 6000rpm... an automatic could never give you the same excitment.
Manual isn't for everyone, but just give it 2-3 months and see how you like it. If not, i'm sure there are many many members on this forum who would trade you for your car haha.
Happy driving.
I've had the car for two years now, and I must say that I am definitely glad that I didn't get it in the 5AT. I think all of us 6MT owners enjoy ripping up an empty road in the middle of the night, flying through gears. It's lame, but I feel super cool doing the third to fourth gear pull at 6000rpm... an automatic could never give you the same excitment.
Manual isn't for everyone, but just give it 2-3 months and see how you like it. If not, i'm sure there are many many members on this forum who would trade you for your car haha.
Happy driving.
03-13-2010, 02:07 PM
#54
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Our ECU's have software which will hold engine speed for approximately 2 seconds where it needs to be for the next higher gear into which one is shifting. For example, say you're shifting from second to third. Disengage the clutch while letting up on the throttle and watch your tach. The RPM's will drop to a point, then hold there for a moment anticipating the shift into third. The reason I do not recommend this is because the operator can become reliant upon this and then when he drives another vehicle which does not do this, his shift timing will not be good.
03-13-2010, 02:58 PM
#55
'06 TL 5AT NAV Anthracite
As many have said, I think it's good that you're learning to drive a car with manual transmission. Whether you stay with it or not should be a decision you make. It's OK to get feedback, but whatever you choose to do... you'll have to live with it. Sometimes I wish my 3G was the 6MT. I do have an '03 Honda Civic with 5-speed manual. So, I'm able to get my fix when needed. Of course it's not nearly as exciting as a 3G 6MT, but it is a Honda with a manual transmission. I will admit that shifting your own gears is a lot of fun and I totally understand why some would never consider an auto. That said, I know myself and I wouldn't want to deal with a maunal tranny everyday, especially in heavy traffic. Speaking of heavy traffic... when I'm in my Civic, I often do idling along in first or second gear. If I'm on a downgrade, of course I'll just let it coast along in neutral. You'll defintely develop some habits to help you along.
I say all this to say... Decide what works for you. Weight the likes and dislikes of both and go from there.
I say all this to say... Decide what works for you. Weight the likes and dislikes of both and go from there.
03-13-2010, 04:13 PM
#56
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I need to search for the slave cylinder mod it sounds like.
Our TL has 57K miles on it and the clutch sucks, it won't hold a moderate shift to save its life. Would the slave mod help this at all?
Our TL has 57K miles on it and the clutch sucks, it won't hold a moderate shift to save its life. Would the slave mod help this at all?
03-13-2010, 04:50 PM
#57
A lot of good motivating information here!! Today was a great day I think I fell in love with the manual!! Finally had a chance to drive it around. All I have to say is this car has some power! I only drove a few TLs before purchasing this one, all of them were autos and one was even a type S auto and I dont remember them being as powerful!! I was with the dealer in the type S so I didnt drive it hard but damn this car is a beast I love it! Thanks for all the support I'm about to go out and fill her up with Amsoil tranny fluid and see how she feels after that.
03-13-2010, 05:10 PM
#58
Registered Member
If you shift normally, as in not taking "advantage of this feature, you shouldn't ever notice your engine doing this. If you wait by keeping the clutch depressed (this seems to trigger this action) the RPM's will fall to where they would need to be when you re-engage the clutch in the next higher gear.
03-13-2010, 06:19 PM
#59
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If you shift normally, as in not taking "advantage of this feature, you shouldn't ever notice your engine doing this. If you wait by keeping the clutch depressed (this seems to trigger this action) the RPM's will fall to where they would need to be when you re-engage the clutch in the next higher gear.
To OP, as many others said, just space yourself out in traffic. Most of the time, you can make it through just putting along at 5-10MPH. Tractor trailers are good examples. You'll probably get some impatient people cutting in front once there's a car's length+ gap and others behind you tailgating pushing you to close that gap you're leaving...just ignore it.
Good luck!
03-13-2010, 10:52 PM
#60
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If you shift normally, as in not taking "advantage of this feature, you shouldn't ever notice your engine doing this. If you wait by keeping the clutch depressed (this seems to trigger this action) the RPM's will fall to where they would need to be when you re-engage the clutch in the next higher gear.
To OP: Driving manual really is a sort of a lifestyle choice for many of us. For me, I have a 5 mile commute home from work that takes 30-40 mins. Do I mind it? Absolutely not and would never even consider buying an autotragic because of it. In fact, every time I drive an automatic, it annoys me to a point that I'd rather not drive. Then all I do is mumble to myself on why anyone would choose to buy an auto, so on and so forth... cycle repeats with a lot of talking to myself. You get the idea.
Last edited by ImagePree; 03-13-2010 at 10:56 PM.
03-14-2010, 08:53 AM
#61
Registered Member
I noticed it, actually, only because sometimes I shift like a granny and/or during traffic whereas I don't actually shift into 2nd while clutch in depressed. And, of course, this didn't happen with my Prelude for over 10 years. Figured there was something fishy so I appreciate this info. Now I can I could just drop it from my mind.
To OP: Driving manual really is a sort of a lifestyle choice for many of us. For me, I have a 5 mile commute home from work that takes 30-40 mins. Do I mind it? Absolutely not and would never even consider buying an autotragic because of it. In fact, every time I drive an automatic, it annoys me to a point that I'd rather not drive. Then all I do is mumble to myself on why anyone would choose to buy an auto, so on and so forth... cycle repeats with a lot of talking to myself. You get the idea.
To OP: Driving manual really is a sort of a lifestyle choice for many of us. For me, I have a 5 mile commute home from work that takes 30-40 mins. Do I mind it? Absolutely not and would never even consider buying an autotragic because of it. In fact, every time I drive an automatic, it annoys me to a point that I'd rather not drive. Then all I do is mumble to myself on why anyone would choose to buy an auto, so on and so forth... cycle repeats with a lot of talking to myself. You get the idea.
03-14-2010, 09:12 AM
#62
The end result, look at the TL sales:
95% A/T, 5% 6 MT.
Enough said.
Having stated that, our TL is an A/T, far from a sports car IMHO, but I do own a car that has a M/T as an A/T wasn't an option in this country, but I certainly wouldn't have purchased that option even if it were available.
95% A/T, 5% 6 MT.
Enough said.
Having stated that, our TL is an A/T, far from a sports car IMHO, but I do own a car that has a M/T as an A/T wasn't an option in this country, but I certainly wouldn't have purchased that option even if it were available.
03-14-2010, 09:27 AM
#63
As many have stated, driving a M/T is a great experience as you have control of the car. Listening to the engine, learning shift points etc. Been driving manuals for years, first one was a Mustang 4 spd (showing my age), then the Accord EX 5spd which had over 200,000 miles on the same clutch for 15 years.
I was tempted to buy an RL, but I couldn't do it as I know I would have missed driving a M/T. I don't want to drive anything else. As Southerboy stated, it has become second nature, more so to the point that when I drive my wife's car, I'm reaching for the clutch.
Give it time. You will love it once you get the hang and feel of it. And like most M/T drivers here, you will never go back to a A/T.
I was tempted to buy an RL, but I couldn't do it as I know I would have missed driving a M/T. I don't want to drive anything else. As Southerboy stated, it has become second nature, more so to the point that when I drive my wife's car, I'm reaching for the clutch.
Give it time. You will love it once you get the hang and feel of it. And like most M/T drivers here, you will never go back to a A/T.
03-14-2010, 11:35 AM
#65
Team Owner
I enjoy manuals but both of my car, daily driver and daily race car are autos. I don't regret the TL one bit as it's the DD first. I have a little fun with it here and there but not enough to warrant a manual.
On the other hand, I'm looking at slightly used Z06s and of course I would never want a car like that in an auto.
Auto for a drag car.
Auto for a DD.
Manual for a sports car.
I drove a base and TL-S manual. Both were super easy to learn, I had it down nearly perfect after just a couple redlights. It's just a matter or leaning where the clutch starts taking up at. But one thing I don't like about foreign cars, it feels like a little toy. The shifter feels fragile and the clutch feels like it's not connected to anything. I'm used to much stiffer clutches and a transmission that required force to shift yet you knew beyond a doubt that you were in gear.
I feel like I would break a manual TL drag racing it.
On the other hand, I'm looking at slightly used Z06s and of course I would never want a car like that in an auto.
Auto for a drag car.
Auto for a DD.
Manual for a sports car.
I drove a base and TL-S manual. Both were super easy to learn, I had it down nearly perfect after just a couple redlights. It's just a matter or leaning where the clutch starts taking up at. But one thing I don't like about foreign cars, it feels like a little toy. The shifter feels fragile and the clutch feels like it's not connected to anything. I'm used to much stiffer clutches and a transmission that required force to shift yet you knew beyond a doubt that you were in gear.
I feel like I would break a manual TL drag racing it.
03-14-2010, 12:41 PM
#66
Registered Member
I enjoy manuals but both of my car, daily driver and daily race car are autos. I don't regret the TL one bit as it's the DD first. I have a little fun with it here and there but not enough to warrant a manual.
On the other hand, I'm looking at slightly used Z06s and of course I would never want a car like that in an auto.
Auto for a drag car.
Auto for a DD.
Manual for a sports car.
I drove a base and TL-S manual. Both were super easy to learn, I had it down nearly perfect after just a couple redlights. It's just a matter or leaning where the clutch starts taking up at. But one thing I don't like about foreign cars, it feels like a little toy. The shifter feels fragile and the clutch feels like it's not connected to anything. I'm used to much stiffer clutches and a transmission that required force to shift yet you knew beyond a doubt that you were in gear.
I feel like I would break a manual TL drag racing it.
On the other hand, I'm looking at slightly used Z06s and of course I would never want a car like that in an auto.
Auto for a drag car.
Auto for a DD.
Manual for a sports car.
I drove a base and TL-S manual. Both were super easy to learn, I had it down nearly perfect after just a couple redlights. It's just a matter or leaning where the clutch starts taking up at. But one thing I don't like about foreign cars, it feels like a little toy. The shifter feels fragile and the clutch feels like it's not connected to anything. I'm used to much stiffer clutches and a transmission that required force to shift yet you knew beyond a doubt that you were in gear.
I feel like I would break a manual TL drag racing it.
As for breaking the TL if you used it for drag racing (as in some serious 1/4 mile trips), yep.. I agree. There is no way a TL tranny or drive train could stand the abuse of a mid-60's American supercar. Having had both, I feel I can speak with some knowledge about this.
03-14-2010, 08:53 PM
#69
Racer
Hey Roger, glad to hear you're enjoying your 6MT (like me)! As with any MT, it takes some practice initially. I've had other MTs and with the exception of the Germans (who are only better by only a smidge), this is by far the best one I've owned. Had a 2007 Vette that I swear shifted worse than a Mack truck! Took ALL the fun out of driving it. 
03-14-2010, 08:56 PM
#70
Stock T56 shifters (as the one found in your C6 Vette) are garbage.... MGW shifter firms them right up. Instant improvement
03-15-2010, 02:18 AM
#71
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i have a 5at and im so bored of it... you tel yourself oh yeah tiptronic is good enough... its not it just makes you feel like a wannabe 6MT. but the positive is i can eat and drive, text and drive, and do other things and drive [; lol! but thats okay because ill be getting a 240sx in mt for a daily drive for fun
03-15-2010, 08:35 AM
#72
Also, short and quick shifts will help. Meaning, only push the clutch pedal down about halfway to the floor. Just to the point when you can change gears. DO NOT push the pedal all the way to the floor. This will screw up your rpm rythm. This applies to 2-6 gears. 1-2 needs to be slow in traffic. But if your high in RPMs in 1st gear then shifting quickly is your best bet. Once you get this you will begin to understand how the clutch works in our cars.
03-16-2010, 12:43 AM
#73
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u will enjoy the standard .
it takes time
traffic sucks but driving otherwise is more entertaining
it has the ups and downs like eating or cell phoning is the down
ups are pure fun, speed, and the ultimate control of the trans
enjoy!!
it takes time
traffic sucks but driving otherwise is more entertaining
it has the ups and downs like eating or cell phoning is the down
ups are pure fun, speed, and the ultimate control of the trans
enjoy!!
03-16-2010, 05:38 AM
#75
Registered Member
Also, short and quick shifts will help. Meaning, only push the clutch pedal down about halfway to the floor. Just to the point when you can change gears. DO NOT push the pedal all the way to the floor. This will screw up your rpm rythm. This applies to 2-6 gears. 1-2 needs to be slow in traffic. But if your high in RPMs in 1st gear then shifting quickly is your best bet. Once you get this you will begin to understand how the clutch works in our cars.
As for understanding how the clutch in our TL's works, it works exactly the same as in any other manual transmission - talking the actual clutching action here.
03-16-2010, 05:43 AM
#76
Registered Member
No. You can do it, but in order to do it properly, you must wait longer with the clutch disengaged for the engine speed to come down to the point where it needs to be for fourth gear. Suppose you have run second gear up to 5000 RPM and a third gear shift would put engine speed at 4200 RPM. However, a fourth gear shift would mean 3300 RPM. You would have to wait for your engine to drop to around 3300 RPM before performing the fourth gear shift. If you hurried the shift from second to fourth under these conditions, you might be hitting fourth gear at over 4000 RPM. This will induce a shock to your drive train and force your fourth gear synchronizers to work hard to drop the input shaft speed.
03-16-2010, 11:29 AM
#78
No. You can do it, but in order to do it properly, you must wait longer with the clutch disengaged for the engine speed to come down to the point where it needs to be for fourth gear. Suppose you have run second gear up to 5000 RPM and a third gear shift would put engine speed at 4200 RPM. However, a fourth gear shift would mean 3300 RPM. You would have to wait for your engine to drop to around 3300 RPM before performing the fourth gear shift. If you hurried the shift from second to fourth under these conditions, you might be hitting fourth gear at over 4000 RPM. This will induce a shock to your drive train and force your fourth gear synchronizers to work hard to drop the input shaft speed.
Gotcha! I was reading about an upgraded engine damper that is available that would help with engine movement do you have this upgrade? I had an engine damper on my other car and it was great! I feel while driving around a parking lot for example I have alot of engine movement and jerking while applying gas and letting off at these low speeds in first or 2nd gear. I would be nice to stiffen up this rocking. Any input on this?
03-16-2010, 11:50 AM
#79
Registered Member
Gotcha! I was reading about an upgraded engine damper that is available that would help with engine movement do you have this upgrade? I had an engine damper on my other car and it was great! I feel while driving around a parking lot for example I have alot of engine movement and jerking while applying gas and letting off at these low speeds in first or 2nd gear. I would be nice to stiffen up this rocking. Any input on this?
I would wager that all automobile engines have a harmonic balancer or a damper when installed in their vehicles. These devices server several purposes. They turn one or more accessory belts, they absorb combustion harmonics, and they offset the flywheel weight handled by the crankshaft. Mine is stock and I would suggest you leave yours stock as well. There are some aftermarket pullies which will increase both horsepower and torque and I have used them on two of my previous cars. You could investigate those, but if you're experiencing jerking and such now, a lighter pulley will increase that feeling.
