Road Rage if you could elaborate it would be appreciated. If you could let me know what you think and how does this compare to some of the info you know. This was LE 8130 10W30. it had approx 6000 miles on it and was changed at the 12,000 mark on the engine. 04 TL auto

 

or Michael Wan

BTW cant see what you have tried to attach...

 

 

Brian,
Your copper will drop to between 25-30ppm by the next analysis, and the Iron will drop to 1.5-2ppm/1,000 miles as well. The elevated Iron and Copper you see here is simply wear metals leftover from the break-in period.

Si will drop to <10ppm by the next analysis as the the high Silicon is leftover dirt from sandblasting.

Use FP60 to drop the insolubles to 0.3% and consider using a 20wt, which will deliver equal or better results with better flow and solvency. Also, usage of Lube Control (LC20) like I've recommended will boost the flashpoint to >400F, which is really the target for optimal results.

Terry will provide you with all of the explanation you need, so you might as well ignore my comments.

Michael

 

MW: solvency - 20 wts are intrinsically better? And flow would be an issue only if there were inadequate flow at the temps this oil is being used, right?

On your other points, I would just add that silicon from sand CASTING (I assume meant that rather than "blasting") is most likely gone at the mileage he has, but the silicone sealants continue to leech into the oil. This is his 2nd oil change, right?

RS: I agree with MW that I am not concerned by this UOA at this point in your car's life. The figures compare well to my baseline VOA analysis. The boron reduction from about 160 ppm when fresh indicates this is the main sacrificial anti-wear compound, and is doing its job. The vis is exactly what the VOA shows - so the viscosity is holding rock steady, showing the stability of this synblend. Base flashpoint is 425, and 390 is arguably quite good.

The zinc and phos levels look amazingly close to VOA. The TBN indicates there is plenty of life left in this oil, esp in the use in a high-revving VTEC engoine. I would be a little disappointed in the "Comments" from Blackstone; they state you would like to extend your OCI, but do not weigh-in on the feasibility. I mean, stating "the oil was changed" is pretty lame - obviously the oil was changed!! You drained it, caught a sample, and sent it to them!! That needs a comment? Cheesh.

Are you using a stock or aftermarket air filter? If it is stock, I would double check to make sure it is well seated in the air box, just to reduce silicon variables.

 

I'm confused. Blackstone said the same thing in my report, I think because yahoo's like me just check a box that says we're interested in the extended OCI, then Blackstone just forwards this report to Terry, who responds via a separate email, so this is their way of communicating to him. I also successfully extracted oil through the dipstick tube without a change, so it is possible to collect a sample without change, that's about where I am now, trying to see how much more life my MC 5w-20 synblend (which I'm using thanks to you) has in it before I change it.

RR, don't take this wrong way, with all due respect to the many others here who have added to my knowledge, I consider your contributions to this forum to be really far and away the best and I enthusiastically read all posts of yours I see, so I'm wondering if I'm just missing something.

 

Yes rage, I meant sandcasting but dunno what was wrong w/ me that day.

Thinner oil IS slightly more solvent than thicker oils, and WILL provide better flow at cold startups. Check the 40C vis of 5w-20 and 5w-30 oils and you'll see what I mean. For example, 5w-20 Amsoil XL tests out at 45.4cst @40C, while the XL 5w-30 tests out at 58.2cst @40C.

Rage, dunno if "second" oil change is the right word. This fill went in immediately after the factory fill was changed out thus a lot of these wear metals are simply wear metals leftover from the factory fill.

Also, Terry did the interpretation of this UOA. Sadly, he probably believed what was put on the UOA sheet, which said this engine was a 1.8L 4-cyl. (wrong engine). Thus, he interpreted this report as though it came from a 1.8L 4-cyl.

I've talked to the owner of this car and told him to e-mail Terry again to let him know that this report was from a 3.2L V-6 Honda and tell him to reevaluate this report.

Michael

 

BTW, air filter is working perfectly. If there is a leak, you'll see some Ni pop up (most of the time).

It shoul drop to less than 10ppm provided that the owner replaces the air filter at 20K or so to maintain good air flow and to ensure that the seal doesn't fail.

Michael

 

Thanks for the feedback guys.

This was the 2nd oil change after the factory oil. So this next sample should mostly if not all be the le8130. Im at 50%mid so it may be a while for the 2nd sample. Im using the factory air filter and Im going to replace it this weekend just incase its dirty.

Here is a quick question. Acura suggest 5w-20 and Le didnt make a 5w20 so I went with their 10w30. Im not a complete ignoramoose when it comes to oil since our climate here in Alabama is usually in the upper 90's I figured I could use the protection of the 10w30 any suggestions on a quality 5w20 if you recomend I go that route.

P.S. Terry replied after I gave him the update on the car specs and oil and air filters. Not to go to much into what he said but he thought the numbers werent that bad for being oil change number 1 after the break in oil. He recomended and oil additive to clean some deposits and lower my fuel octand closer to 91 than the 93 I have been using but we only have 87 89 93 here in AL.

 

"Thinner oil IS slightly more solvent than thicker oils, and WILL provide better flow at cold startups. Check the 40C vis of 5w-20 and 5w-30 oils and you'll see what I mean. For example, 5w-20 Amsoil XL tests out at 45.4cst @40C, while the XL 5w-30 tests out at 58.2cst @40C."

MW and RS:

It was the 2nd oil change, right?
I believe in answering questions in a manner that has practical value. So when you say 5w20 has better solvency, and then the word "slight" is used, I think it becomes insignificant in terms of practical value.

Same with flow in this case ('Bama boy) - of course I know there are slight differences even within the same Vis family (5w30, 10w30, etc), within the same mfr, and even from QC variation from batch to batch., let alone from one mfr to the next. Again, I suggest that the practical value needs to be the focus of the answer. A handful of centistokes has no practical value IMO based on my many years of research, analysis, and experience with many, many engines used in many, many applications - from fleets to my own Lotus 7 racing days (ah, youth!).

Nutshell? I would be hesitant to tell someone to switch to a 20wt based on solvency and flow, unless I was sure that both of those performance indicators had demonstrable value for the vehicle and conditions being used. In Alabama, I suggest that low-temp viscosity focus is the wrong focus - even a 10w30 mineral oil based product will handle winter temps there just fine. I think a far more practical statement, for example, would be "Honda will honor the engine warranty".


BTW, LE 8130 has a 40degC cSt of 75. How does one determine if that is good or bad in the context of this thread, I ask? It will certainly not flow like a 5w20 at low temps, but is that a performance issue (i.e., does faster flow per se provide reduced wear and longevity, traded off against the film strength strength reserves for high load areas like cam lobes and bearings at high temps?). I am not sure anyone has the field data yet to unequivocally say Yes or No.

The 100degC cSt of Syntec is 9.0 in 5w20, and the 30's are in the high 11, low 12 range.

Off-topic, but may be the best overall compromise for RS:
Lately, I have been using the German Castrol 0w30, which has plenty of low temp flow, plenty of high temp film strength reserve. And since I think a case can be made to sticking with one oil, one vis, I may go with the GC 0w30 in both the TL and my S2000, which calls for 10w30 or 5w40 only.

rs: I have kin in Meridianville - 'Bama is a lovely state.

 

Rage, the question here is whether the extra viscosity is needed or not.

We've had MANY Honda engines run on 5w-20 in the hot, southern climate with excellent results.

Michael

 

RR, Yes that was the 2nd oil change. I was not really worried about the cold temps since it rarely dips in to the 50's in the winter. With that being said do you think I should go with a 5w20 or just stick with the 10w30 since 80% of the year is spent in temps 80 and higher. Thanks again for the advice.

 

While I agree with MW that there have been very good UOA's posted with 5w20's in hot climates, I would want to see long-term wear analyses and anecdotal engine life endorsements, esp in very hot climates with high load factors, before I would unequivocally recommend them as as good as an equivalently formulated 0,5, or 10w30 product. 5w20's have been in the JDM for a long while, but those driving conditions are quite different than what we have in the USA. Europe has not gone "thin" either. The 5w20's are a great all-around, one size fits all product, and certainly provide "green" benefits. This letter from the EPA shows the extent the EPA will go to push a product family it likes.

http://www.epa.gov/otaq/cert/dearmfr/ccd0112.pdf

I also have stuff from Ford's PR press releases in my files about the "drivers" for the use of 5w20 from the Chief Engineer of the Project team investigating its use. The drivers were "emissions and fuel economy", with "acceptable wear performance". What is acceptable to them may be unaccetable to me.

My point is that the jury is still out as we are still reviewing the data. The early data looks promising, but does not conclusively indicate that in high temp, high load conditons, the ponies (20 weights) out run the horses (the 30's). That has been my point all along - all the little sub plots and references to minutiae like a bit more flow here, a tiny bit more solvency there, are side-show diversions from what I believe is of the most interest to the people asking the Q's.

I mean, if it were just around Green issues, we would all be driving Prius's, right? For performance oriented drivers, the focus issues change. When a Corvette Z06 comes from the factory with a 5w20 or lower, I will be stocking up, you can be sure of that. Many Nascar teams will qualify on a 20 wt to get a few extra ponies, but when it comes time to fill the sump with a fluid that will get them through the race, it is 30wt or higher.