samkws

true

go find a civic and an A4 and compare the leg rooms...the A4 makes the Civic like the size of a CROWN VIC!!!

brahtw8

I think I prefer when people argue over which car is faster or whose balls are bigger.

That you guys are getting this impassioned over an argument about the merits of Audi at best and the lifestyle implications of an in-car navigation system at worst, speaks volumes.

Audi makes a very fine car. I would put an RS4 or heavily (read 450 hp +) modified car against an R34/35 Skyline any day. Not to knock the Skyline, of which I am also a fan.

Reliability has not been Audi's strong suit. They seem to be stricken by catastrophic failures of the most minor parts. Temperature sensors, turbo ducting, etc.

If they were more reliable, I would have looked long and hard at the B5 platform S4, particularly an Avant. I enjoy driving my friend's S4, particularly when it is making proper boost. I find the TL drives very similarly to the S4 (at least on snows, can't really say about the dry), aside from the peakier power delivery of the TL.

Nickerz

okay...read below

Nickerz

Silver B...

You did not just spend your waking hours trying to convince me that the Audi A4 is soooo much larger than my Civic by putting all of the measurements on this post! ????

When I went and sat in the LITTLE A4 last week, no, I didn't bring my measuring tape. Damn, must have forgotten it at home!

Instead, I sat in the car with my girlfriend and felt, THIS CAR IS TOO SMALL FOR ME to spend the money that Audi is asking for the A4. To me it would feel like being right back in my Civic.

I will say though, I appreciate your attention to detail! I really do...I'm not being sarcastic.

All I'm saying though is the A4 is smaller than I expected, it did feel small LIKE my Civic NOT exactly the same. Hell, even the car salesman admitted this and that's why he showed me the A6, well that and it had a bigger price tag for him to make even more commission off of.

Either way, at this point, I'm still leaning towards getting the Acura TL as it does have PLENTY of room both front and amazingly in the back too!

AND I FOR ONE WILL BE GETTING NAVIGATION IN MY TL! YEP! I LOVE IT!

Wow, I started this thread and had no idea it would create such anomosity! I love it! Everyone getting involved, throwing hate at each other but it's all in good fun! We all love Acura and I even got a complete spec break down on Audi and Civic (both '04 & 97) YEAH!


Again, great stats Silver B! I like that!

Man, a couple guys got all bent out of shape over this thread, including me! Calm down guys, we're on the same team...ACURA RULES!

MB-telecom

Subaru also makes a great AWD system. I believe that they have been doing full time AWD for longer than anyone out there. Someone correct me if I am wrong.

oxidizer2k

dude, just shut up, posting is taking up your time.. if he cant agree with you after a few posts, then dont post to him anymore, theres no point... you should just ignore him and move on with your life..... hes not going to listen to you... And you dont always need to have the last word.... theres so many other people in this thread that you could interact with rather than sit here and waste your time on one....

just chill bro....

oxidizer2k

Hey, Good Day to you too!

Z Factor

:yack:

jdone

OK, you're wrong, it was Audi. Even into the mid to late 80's Subies were offered with fwd or a part time 4wd system.

oxidizer2k

Correct, I remember the subaru svx having only fwd on the base models, and awd on the higher model...

MarkItZero

I am 6 '4 and I have no problem with the size of the A4. Some of you are blowing the size thing out of proportion. If you have the car full of people, then yes, it is small.

cali TL

the only audi i have really ever been able to drive to its limits (or try) is an 2002 Audi S8. That being said, i feel the quattro AWD system is by far the best in the american market. Its true that it doesnt have any tweaking capabilities like the WRX-STI etc., but audi tweaked it so that this car could basically eat up anything like it was dry taramac. On the way to mammoth last year he was driving it in the snow like there was no weather whatsoever, and it my opinion, you cant feel the usual quirks of AWD when pushing it around corners. Now ive never driven a skyline, (maybe someday), but the audi quattro accomplishes preciscely its goal.... supirior all weather performance.

Edward'TLS

Back in the 80's, there were some great cars with state-of-the-art 4WD/AWD systems such as Lancia Delta, Lancia Integrale, Ford RS200, Metro 6R4, Audi turbo coupe, to name a few. But these were no family cars, even if you could buy one. By the way, Nissan was still called Datsun at that time.

Audi has the longest history at building AWD system for cars. But Subaru is now catching up very fast. Mercedes has started to offer 4matic in most car model lines. BMW and Jaguar have also started to offer AWD systems in very limited car model lines. These are all cars you can go out and buy today, and can also drive your whole family around for pinics or dinners.

Back half a year ago, a car magazine (Car&Driver or Road&Track) did a comparison test on AWD passenger cars - Audi A4, BMW 330Xi, Mercedes Cxxx 4matic, and Volvo S60 or S70 AWD. The result was that Audi was still the best, followed by BMW and Mercedes, and Volvo was last. The reason why Volvo came last was that the AWD system permitted a fair amount of wheel slipage to occur before engaging the torque transfer - in other words, slow to response. This doesn't come as a big surprise, because Volvo doesn't have much experience building AWD for cars.

emendez

BMW's began using AWD in the 325ix back in late 1987. Although we did not get it here, you could get a 525ix in Europe in the mid-90s. Mercedes had the 4matic back in the early 90s too in their E class too. The only manufacturers that I've seen totally committed to AWD have been Audi and Subaru.

1SICKLEX

And an Audi owner would say why buy an Acura? This was silly.

Lexus has been chosen as having the best Nav since they had it in 1998. German NAV is really dumb for those that use it. Screens are tiny too. They get the lowest marks. Infiniti and Acura fair much better. The new Tl has sweet NAV.

A guy told me this. We buy ALL our electronics from TVs to computers from Japan. Why the fock would anyone think a German made NAV could possibly be better?

Made perfect sense.

SilverBulletCLS

Sorry but where did you hear this test? Last I heard Acura was rated the best NAV not Lexus.

nguyendminh_RENAMED

Yeah where did you hear that Lexus has best NAV ? I cannot see it being the best when input your destination and start to drive. Then you want to change your destination, but oh wait you can't. You have to pull over to change your destination, how cumbersome.

BarryH

The Lexus nav is good and they were the first to provide full nationwide coverage. Not being able to use it while the car is moving would drive me insane. The only European car company with a decent nav is Volvo. The screen rises out of the center of the dashboard and is literally in the line of sight so you never have to take your eyes off the road. The joystick is mounted on the steering wheel so you never have to take your hands off the wheel. There's a remote so that anyone in the car can use it. The biggest difference is that the Volvo system allows you to manipulate a trip that's in process. For example if you're on a highway and want to find a gas station ahead, you can search for facilities along the route and then add an additional destination without starting over. You can also add ten destinations and place them in any order you want so you can use the nav as a trip planner. The Volvo nav is made by Mitsubishi but doesn’t get reviewed a lot because, let’s face it, there aren’t that many Volvo’s out there.

Nickerz

So if you are on the road and want to change directions, you would have to pull over to stop your car and then enter the new directions for it to take effect?

Is this true for the TL?

thejavagod

If you live in a one horse town then yes, navi is a total waste. But I live in Los Angeles and for the past three years have been using the Navi in my 02 TLS. I absolutely love it. I will never get a vehicle without Navi. The POI database really saves time in locating the nearest ATM or gas station. I think the navi is a very cool feature.

Majorhouse

I agree. I live in Miami and while I don't need a NAV system to tell me how to get back and forth between work and home, it is great to have when you are in a neighborhood that you are not all that familiar with. I also take 4 or 5 road trips a year to Central Florida, no more Yahoo/Mapquest directions for me. Plus, you also get touch screen, voice commands, and a really cool display area.

I use a GPS/NAV constantly on my boat, I'm sure I would have all kinds of uses for a NAV in my car.

Nickerz

Does anyone know if this is true? Read my post a few posts up.

BarryH

Acura's has always been touch screen and useable at any time. Lexus uses both touch screen and joystick and you cannot input information in the system when the car is moving. Volvo uses a joystick and lets you use the system while the car's moving. I'm not positive, but I think Nissan/Infiniti makes you stop to enter data also.

Nickerz

Good! But what if I'm enroute to a destination and then suddenly in the middle of traveling need to re-route to find the nearest gas station, I can do this without losing my original destination info?

brahtw8

Yes.

Simply cancel the current destination and program the new one.

The old one is saved under "Today's Destinations".

vicpai

Since you don't have a Navigation System, you obviously don't know the capabilities and usefulness of a Navigation System .......You're probably one of those dilusional people that think it's just a fancy electronic map

I hate to burst your bubble, but GPS can tell you where you are, without needing any external references ......in other words it tells you exactly where you are on the globe (steet name and all), even if a particular street does not have any street signs or markings with it's name on it ......do you kinda sorta see the benefit having this information available when driving??

Secondly, the Navigation System is particularly useful at night. Some neighborhoods do not have street lighting, to avoid "light pollution". (Palos Verdes Estates, CA is one such area) .........So you, with your paper map, will have to stop at every single street, get out with your flashlight, shine it on the street sign (assuming that it has one ) and then proceed!

If you're travelling in a strange neighborhood, and have the sudden urge to eat Chinese food, having the ENTIRE YELLOW PAGES AND WHITE PAGES OF THE UNITED STATES available at your fingertips, and then being able to sort this highly categorized info, in a multitude of different ways, does not hurt either .......I know the argument you're going to come up with, even before you can move your lips!! .......Yes, you say, thats what 411 is for. While 411 can give you the phone # and address in a particular city they cannot tell you which particular restaurant is NEAREST to YOUR exact location, of which the Navigation system is aware of at all times, to within an accuracy of about 30 feet! ......and neither can 411 give you a list of nearest services (such as gas stations, ATMs, banks, grocery stores etc. etc. etc.)

And, god forbid, if you should get stuck somewhere in a shady/sleazy neighborhood and need to find the nearest freeway, picture yourself parked on a deserted street peering endlessly at a map (screaming "stranger, here, come get me!")

........and what I've mentioned above is just THE TIP OF THE ICEBERG of the benefits of having a Navigation System.

FYI, I bought my MDX over the 4Runner Limited I really wanted, FOR IT'S WORLD CLASS NAVIGATION SYSTEM ......that should speak volumes for itself!! .......Remember all Navigation systems are not created alike!..... and when the accuracy and functionality of a Nav system are not perfect (or close to perfect) that's when it becomes a fancy electronic gimmick, WHICH THE ACURA NAVIGATION SYSTEM IS NOT!!

vicpai

Maybe not 100% of the time, but the ACURA Navigation System is correct 98 to 99% of the time, which is good enough for me! (I'm in the Mortgage business and use this as a tool when I'm travelling to clients places, for everything from finding their addresses to finding nearby restaurants while "eating on the run" between appointments. I have used both the FIRST GENERATION Nav system (in my 2000TL) and SECOND GENERATION Navigation System, now in my 2003 MDX, for a total of over 2.5 years which totals SEVERAL hundreds of destinations. The Nav system has been RIGHT ON THE MONEY more than 98% of the time! Additionally, in the short span of just over a year between my TL and MDX when I didn't own an Acura product, I've extensively used other Nav systems that include the Toyota/Lexus, Alpine aftermarket (NVE-851A), Streetpilot III, Kenwood aftermarket, and only after that, have I come to the conclusion that nothing can touch the ACURA system! I've also tested the Magellan Roadmate 500, and now, currently own the Streetpilot 2610 as well, to use in my second commuter car, and while travelling..........So, basically, I'm not just "shooting from the hip" but talking from EXTENSIVE experience!

People lived happy, filling, fun and satisfied lives even before the advent of the internet. People lived happy, filling, fun lives even before the automobile was invented. People lived happy, filling, fun lives even during the ocean liner era, when it took several days to get from Europe to America, which is accomplished today in a matter of a few hours on a jet aircraft ........So, are you saying that none of these technological advances have made our lives even better?? The reason technology exists and keeps advancing, is to make our lives even better, safer and more fullfilling!

Nickerz

[QUOTE]Originally posted by vicpai
[B]Since you don't have a Navigation System, you obviously don't know the capabilities and usefulness of a Navigation System .......You're probably one of those dilusional people that think it's just a fancy electronic map



Yeah vicpai!

That's what I'm talking about! Send that damn vandi786 back into his caveman hole along with his caveman MAP!

I still love the fact he can't live that stupid @SS comment of his down. huh...yeah..."It's probably safer to stop on the side of the road and just read a map."

HOW IGNORANT CAN YOU BE!?

svtmike

You guys need to chill a little. It's just a navigation system, nothing more, nothing less.

Mike

BarryH

I hated this in the Acura nav. It can only do one thing at a time. I don't know about all of the other systems, but in my Volvo I can add or change destinations in a trip without having to start over. For example, if I'm on a highway, I can ask the system for gas stations, restaurants, or rest stops along the route. You can also scroll ahead either on or around the route and ask for destinations near the specified point. I can then add a stop to the current trip without losing anything. You can use any part of the system, re-order your current trip, and add or delete stops all within the same "trip". It functions like a trip planner, not just a navigation device. It's a neat feature that doesn't seem that complicated - I don't know why all nav vendors don't include it. BTW, Volvo's system is made by Mitsubishi.

BarryH

I like it, but it's not a religion. Nav was one of the reasons I didn't consider an S4 Avant. I wanted a convertible so it doesn't have nav - ces't la vie. I certainly wouldn't ridicule people who didn't see its value. They're really bad investments also as you get almost nothing back at resale and they actually lower a lease cars residual.

Nickerz

Ummm...being that it is a Navigation system, directed by satilite, giving you a lot more features than a paper map, would actually make it then more...not less...wouldn't it.