svtmike

I have two cars with the same basic drivetrain - the wife's 2002 Odyssey (3.5L) and my 2004 TL (3.2L), both with 5AT.

Both have very similar shift points, and yes in docile street driving with the torque converter locked up both are turning about 1500 rpm at 50mph.

The very minimal vibrations from the engine/trans in both cars at that rpm and speed is very similar. Neither one demonstrates what I consider excessive vibration for the low engine speed.

Mike

svtmike

fsconsult,

I don't recall seeing a response to this question. Do other '04 TLs feel like yours to you?

Mike

jmichaelp

Mike, I couldn't get my 6MT to do 1500 rpm at 50mph while accelerating (which adds stress to the engine) up a slight incline (which adds more stress to the engine). If I were going downhill or just maintaining my speed perhaps, but that's not where this TL owner is experiencing the vibration.

svtmike

If I recall correctly the 6MT is geared differently than the 5AT, so you might not be able to get 50mph at 1500rpm with it. I wouldn't be surprised if there's also a difference in the engine mounts, damping, etc. with the lighter manual trans and to take up the higher driveline shocks that can come with a fast WOT shift.

And I agree doesn't feel right to drive a manual at the RPM ranges that the 5AT is programmed to shift down to, since you'd have to be constantly downshifting every time you wanted to accelerate just a bit; I'd bet you don't commonly get below 2k rpm in even the easiest driving.

All the 5AT has to do is unlock the converter when the throttle goes down a bit and the engine goes right up to 2000+ rpm or so for acceleration. At least that's what mine does.

Mike

need4spd

I also have a similar vibration and droning sound at those speeds, and they are felt in everyday driving, as 30 and 50mph are typical of traffic movement in my area, FS is correct, the ways he indicates do show this issue, however, for those who have it, including I, we feel it multiple times each day under normal driving conditions (If driven hard and aggressive and breaking the law, it is not felt as the shift points increase, but with 16mpg already, how much more agressive can I drive? I am not a granny by any means and it still happens) .

I would say I have a 3 or 4 (but not knowing what a 1 or 5 feels like, it is hard to say). I also came from a MT car where I never felt any driveline vibration (wifes car is a 5AT, and none felt there also).

And yes, it is turning 1500rpm's at 30mph and 50mph at cruise (non accel) for max gas econnomy.

Also, gear ratios are different for Auto and Manual (auto has two overdrives 4th and 5th, both where this is happening, 6MT has one overdrive).

Engine and tranny mounts are different between AT and MT per acura literature. AT has electronic dampening type, so maybe our problems are the mounts?

I did the same thing in a 5AT TSX loaner, smooth as silk, no problem and even less torque (rpms about the same), I do not think it is engine lugging as we have plenty of torque for the wieght (TSX is much less at 1500 rpms and almost as heavy as the TL).

Sorry guys, I can attest this is real, and makes the car much less enjoyable. I did not come from an Acura in to this one, so maybe my standards are a little different, but there is a little more vibration going on with the TL (includes tire issues) than I would prefer, and I am a sport minded person, where firm suspensions do not bother me.

Nickerz

Hmmmm,

This is complicated. I am planning on buying the TL but not until around spring also (maybe sooner?) and I have to say this thread has me going back and forth.

Some say that Corp. needs to step up and handle the problem...but then others have good points about maybe some are just being too anal retentive.

My problem is I can be one of those anal retentive types where things have to be just right. I can probably deal with a vibration here and there but it would frustrate the hell out of me knowing that it's constant while driving a certain speed as this guy mentions.

PLUS! Don't forget, this guy said the arbitrator even admitted to the vibration! That would send me into a fit, knowing this and still having to deal with Acura's Corp. team trying to be "PC" about it.

I had a BAD run in with a local Volvo dealership and just as bad treatment from Volvo Corp after trying to escalate the problem to them.

I'LL BE DAMNED IF I EVER OWN A VOLVO AGAIN AND WILL FOR THE REST OF MY LIFE TELL EVERYONE ABOUT MY BAD EXPERIENCE WITH VOLVO. All b/c they wouldn't let me test drive a car of theirs. FUKC you VOLVO!

They say the average person will complain to at least 50 different people about their bad experience.

My point is, if Acura's stand on this issue is to, as some say, "sweep it under the rug" then I'm not sure about giving my business to Acura.

On the other hand, cars are machines, built by machines. Even machines have faulty parts and are not fitted properly, so who's not to say that expecting perfection would be a bit unrealistic. ?

fsconsult,
If I were you, I would copy and past into an email this forum and let them know what's being discussed b/c they refuse to admit guilt and that their explanation of the cars' "Normal Characteristic" doesn't have us convinced that it's "so Normal" after all.

Keep us posted as I for one am going to be a B1tch if I get to the point of buying this car and begin final inspection before I drive it off the lot. I am going to be checking for every little thing now. Especially damn vibration!

neuronbob

I would call it a level "0", because I feel no vibration, but only hear a hum.

jmichaelp, my engine speed is also reliably 1500 rpm at 50 mph, so I don't think that particular issue is an error, it must have been designed that way in 5ATs to save fuel.

jmichaelp

Hmmm... so I guess the transmisions are to dissimilar for comparison. Still it seems that this might be a fixable problem with the computer since the transmission seems to work fine at those speeds in the sport shift mode - I assume that this problem has been tested accelerating at 50 mph up a slight incline in sport mode?

Perhaps through our discussions we can get figure this out. My 6MT has been all that I could've hoped for (and more) in a new car & I hope you all get your AT's to where you're as happy with the choice

Linnley

Let me tell you peoples.....This thread and others has been a real education for me. Let me see if I can remember some points;

1) My 00TL is not so bad, big trunk, smooth ride, not as much Hp but man it is quiet and it goes fine when I press the "CABLE" throttle.

2) My techno LUST for the 04TL has changed its form. Let me explain. I was so ready to trade-in my 00TL and get the 04TL, nothing else mattered. Usually I am all about value, but with this 04TL I was completely blind.....JUST GET ME INTO THE 04!!! This, of course, was like an organasim to the sales people. "just give me a deposit over the phone, and we'll work the details later".

3) Sometimes the more performance you get the more maintainance your going to have to pay for. IE Tires and maybe brake pads on the 6MT. And, perhaps flat panel and other NAVI issues later in life - hopefully not, but if it happens the extended warrenty would be nice.

4) The first year of the 04TL is "bleeding" edge aswell as "leading" edge.

5) ACURA, my favorite marque, is not coming to the plate! YET!!!


Thats about it for me.....oh yeah one more thing.....I decided to wait until spring/summer. Maybe even until the 05TL is out and the 05RL is out.....although the RL could have some teething issues aswell.................

THANKS ALL, and keep fighting the good fight.........cheers!


PS ...SO the point of my POST is; this is ONE SALE that Acura did NOT get.....YET......maybe later....hehehe

rets

Mike,

My 5AT has the similar RPM at 50 MPH. I got 1400-1500 in 5th gear with the converter working. (1200 RPM at 5th for 40 MPH, 6MT definitely feels shocking) If the road is uneven or begin to climb, my engine will jump up to 1800-1900, which seems to not engage the converter anymore.(I'm not sure. The engine sounds differently and respond better. Will the converter engage forever?) I use SS mode to get these infomation. And, I agree in that low RPM at 5th, the engine will shake TL a little more than usual.

Back to Auto mode, the same way to kick the pedal, my car is not going to shift to 5th unless somewhere near 55 MPH. That's probably why I feel less vibration everyday.

Does TL's ECU suppose to learn your driving behavior and habit then adjust the throttles and the converter a little differently? If so, I can understand why my car has less quake.

confused:



Until today, I saw another TL on streets, totally 4 TLs so far... Still not easy to see her although my friends and colleagues have seen more than a dozen...
:

fsconsult

Sorry bout that Mike:

When I met with the District guy, he did let me test drive his company car. His car vibrated just as bad as mines. He had a early build # in 200's. My car is in the 2800's.

We also tested one more car afterwards. It seemed as if they had this car ready for me. In other words, it wasn't a car that I could radomly select (out of their demo's of course...this is a big dealership and have at least 4 or 5 demo's...probably more)

That car I would say exhibited a level "1" vibration, which can be barely, barely felt, but there. (9000's build #) As I stated earlier in my post, if that was my car initially, I would have probably never noticed it. I just happen to know exactly what and when to look for the vibration / engine noice.

fsconsult

Hey guys...I found this on another web page. What do u guys think?

____________________________________________

NEW: From an AutoTips visitor

Symptom: Serious engine vibration on a 1989 V6 Plymouth Voyager at around 40-50 mph. Below that speed the vibration is not noticeable, and above 55 the vibration isn't as noticeable. Replacing engine mounts (3 on the Voyager) did not work, replacing shocks did not work. Checked the transmission, but no problems there.

Solution: Changed spark plugs, one plug was black with oil (rear of engine). Apparently, the engine was out of sync at higher speeds/RPMs. There was no noticeable knock at lower speeds or RPMs. After replacing the plug, there were no further problems.

Lore

Wow. That's interesting ... how does a spark plug cause an out-of-sync issue? (I don't know much about car engines, as you can tell)

jyg tl 3

doubtful bad plug. too , many having problem, some worse than others. bad plug would most likely cause engine light to come on and throw a code.

svtmike

5AT and 6MT gearing is quite different.

At 1500 RPM in 5th, 6MT would be going ~33mph, in 6th ~42mph. My guess is most 6MT drivers only see 1500 rpm as they accelerate through it in 1st. You'd have to do a very short shift at 13mph into 2nd to see it again.

At 1500 RPM with the 5AT, torque converter locked up, you'll see approximately 35 and 50mph respectively. Those who complain of trans vibrations usually experience them at those speeds. My 5AT will lug a bit at those speeds and gears too, as I suspect all 5AT TLs will. My solution is to give a touch more gas to unlock the torque converter and lugging is gone.

fsconsult, since your car is worse than the other you drove, the only thing I can think of is engine mount, or perhaps you've also got the tire vibration and the two are "stacking up" in your hands at 50mph.

Mike

boringegg

fsconsult, i absolutely feel your pain. i have the same vibration issue with my TL. it happens when the engine is doing around 1500 rpm @ ANY speed....ANY SPEED... i can even feel it on the floor, on the seat, on the steering wheel. when it comes to idle, i can feel the vibration from the steering wheel too. took it to the dealer and they said it's normal due to the shifting point. they said the manager test drove it and it was fine.
my family also has a 01 Odyssey and i can ONLY feel the vibration @ around 50-55 mph. AND it's less than my TL. in fact, i'm quite upset with this kinda of vibration from a $50k (cdn) car. but wut can i do, i guess i have to deal with it...
other than this issue, i love my car, just love it...
fsconsult, if u have any update from ur acura dealer or the magazines, can u inform me too?thx...

Nickerz

You guys / gals:

The HELL with informing the magazines and if the dealers don't help then you really should be taking your claims to Acura Corp.

I hope you are taking as much time to write Acura Corp. as you are writing these threads b/c I feel if Corp. hears from enough people, they will hopefully take this VIBRATION problem more seriously.

I am wanting to get this car too but nothing pisses me off more than hearing people talk about spending a lot of money on this car for damn vibration noises! I will go else where if this continues to be a problem that Acura continues to ignore.

kevd

Nickerz,
I agree, someone should copy Acura on these threads. I too, am sitting on the fence to see if/how this gets resolved. No way will I sink money into a new car that has issues like this that are not being addressed.

Scott GN231

FYI, acura customer service has read the master thread on complaints and are aware of the vibration issue. I spoke to a representative who verified this. I would, however, recommend calling them to discuss it.

Scott

endale

fs consult

I have the same problem and mine gets worse when idling. The regional rep played the same trick having me test his demo car which has the same vibration. He thinks this is normal for 04 TLs. I did not believe him at all. Everytime I talk to the dealer they play the same game. "It is a normal finding"


I have a solution for this. We should join for a class action lawsuits.

1SICKLEX

I guess we'll see if they print it. Acura owners letters to editors in magazines are some of the funniest reading. A couple of my favorites: The best letter of the TL-S owner who got his headlights stolen in Car and Driver and the guy upset when they called the CL-S a "Japanese Thunderbird"....

This letter is not as funny though.

KilroyR1

I pick-up my 6MT model on Thursday, so I only have to worry about tire issues.

Anyway, I don't mean to flame anyone, but when I drive my wife's Accord, I leave it in D3 until I get on the highway. If not, it shifts into O/D around 40mph and the engine lugs.

Oddly, I have never had a problem with the shifting in my 1989 Chevy S-10 pickup. That thing is always in the right gear.

Good Luck,

Don

jayerndl

I just got my TL yesterday and noticed some vibration when idling. Have others experienced this also?

Jay

rets

Welcome to the club of Vibrations.

No vibration.
Vibrations at
idle
tires
50 MPH
70 MPH
resonance of exhaust

jayerndl

Sounds like a night club.

garylee55

Good luck. We tried all kinds of things with the failed auto tranny issues on the 02-03 TL. The most that Honda would do is extend the warranty after they finally admitted in news reports that they had a reported 26,000 failures in the TL, Honda Accord V-6, and the Honda Odyssey. Of course, we know that it is probably more than that.

Donte99TL

I did not read through all the post so I don’t know if I am repeating what might have already been said. The only way to make big corporation budge on stuff like this is to -get the media involved. Try calling your local news channel and have them do a story on it. Or better yet call something like 20/20 or Dateline. Get everyone on this forum that has this issue to get on board with you and get it on over the air waves. That would make Acura sh!t a brick and maybe make these stupid mutha fukers move on this problem.

Oh by the way I have the vibration too but it’s not that bad.

Tread

Kilroy, Acura in thier wisdom got rid of D3 and D4 like in the 2nd gen TL. Now there is D and L, or sport shift.

Dam, I should have gotten the 6spd MT as now I row my own gears in SS mode to keep this issue from happening. Tranny should blow up soon with all the SS mode driving (this usually tends to heat up a tranny)

Kilroy, thanks for trying though.